So the US Women's national team should get paid the same as the US men's national team in soccer because it's a point of pride in national sports?
Because that's not the usual argument I hear from conservative types
Utah creates 5 person commission to regulate one trans girl playing sports
- Thread starter TheMysteriousGX
- Start date
Because that's not the usual argument I hear from conservative types
They screen testosterone levels because women can take testosterone. Or are you saying that that screening is the Olympics targeting and hating trans people as well?
You can get scholarships to colleges based on sports. Some Olympic sports have high school aged athletes. High school is very different than say some 4th graders playing a sport.
Professional players should get paid based on the revenue they bring in. IIRC, women's soccer (the American team) and tennis bring in more money and they should get paid more than the men in that case.
I said nothing about doping. The unfortunate reality is that the Olympics are forcing cis women who have high, naturally occurring testosterone to take hormone blockers largely due to this fear mongering
It's really not. Zero cis women have ever lost out on a scholarship or Olympic spot due to a high school trans girl. Zero trans girls have ever gotten an athletic scholarship. The *vast majority* of high school kids will not get an athletic scholarship of any kind
The US Woman's national team is already paid more than the US men's national team in soccer.
You might be right. Since Idaho was the first state, it didnt add it for transmen. But Texas and 10 other states did add it when they copied Idaho
:watermark(cdn.texastribune.org/media/watermarks/2022.png,-0,30,0)/static.texastribune.org/media/files/05390cc390a0dbcf7514d6e60af3b5d7/Against%20Anti-Trans%20EL%20TT%2015.jpg)
Trans kids and supporters say new Texas law will keep them out of school sports
School districts have said they will abide by the law, but it’s still unclear how they will determine whether a student’s birth certificate was issued near the time of birth.
www.google.com
Again, this is not a hypothetical. People have literally gotten away with doing what I described. Heck, people have done what I have described and kept their jobs without any kind of disciplinary action being taken.
EMTs and first responders have a great deal of legal protection in choosing how and when to provide medical care, because triage sometimes requires making very hard decisions about how to spend limited time and resources saving people. What they're not allowed to do is discriminate on the basis of protected categories. If someone is denied care or neglected because they are a (cis) woman, for example, that would be sex discrimination, and the victim or their family can bring legal action.
Wording discrimination legislation in order to specifically exclude trans people means that it is not a crime to use whether or not a person is trans as the basis for making decisions about whether to treat them, so you couldn't take someone to court for discrimination because they refused or provided substandard care to a trans person on the basis that that person was trans. If it is not a crime, that person cannot face criminal consequences.
They might hypothetically face professional consequences for violating the accepted standard of medical ethics (although again, not necessarily) and there are other legal avenues the person's family or friends could pursue, like human rights legislation. But these avenues are extremely limited and far less comprehensive than those available to victims of other forms of discrimination.
This is really just a fairly extreme example of the effects of excluding trans people from anti-discrimination and equality legislation, which again is something the Republicans and the Trump Administration systematically and deliberately did. There are countless other effects across all public institutions and society as a whole.
Discriminatory laws aren't going to come out and outright criminalize being trans and call for all trans people to be put in prison. Transphobic legislation more often manifests as a systematic denial of protection from discrimination in public services.
This is not actually true.
Limitations on participation in the Olympics are based on the specific requirements of the events. Some events require athletes competing as women (whether cis or trans, because the IOC allows transwomen to compete in the Olympics as women) to maintain a particular level of testosterone. However, this is very controversial, not to mention scientifically dubious, and many events do not.
Simply put, endocrinology is complicated. Sex determination is complicated. There can be a vast range of reasons why a cis woman has high levels of androgenic hormones beyond the use of performance enhancers, and not all of these will confer any kind of advantage, unfair or otherwise. Deciding whether or not someone can compete fairly in athletics should be based on scientific evidence, not weird assumptions about what is normal for a human body (nothing about the bodies of Olympic athletes is normal, that's why they're Olympic athletes).
It is very funny, however, to see you all wringing hands about the fairness of women's sports when the net result is demanding that cis women take drugs to lower their natural androgen levels because you think they're performing too well for a woman in the Olympic games.
Last edited:
The U.S. national women's soccer team wins $24 million in equal pay settlement
The team filed a class action lawsuit against the U.S. Soccer Federation in 2019, saying women's team members were paid thousands of dollars less than the men at nearly every level of competition.
www.npr.org
The most baffling things conservatives try to do is say "but <x> doesn't happen, so conservatives don't do that" and it's because conservatives lost a vote, or lawsuit, or election or something. Like, getting shut down doesn't mean that you didn't try.
Last edited:
If this is the suit I'm thinking of, I think they target the wrong organization. US soccer federation was not in control of any of the payoutsThe U.S. national women's soccer team wins $24 million in equal pay settlement
The team filed a class action lawsuit against the U.S. Soccer Federation in 2019, saying women's team members were paid thousands of dollars less than the men at nearly every level of competition.
The most baffling things conservatives try to do is say "but <x> doesn't happen, so conservatives don't do that" and it's because conservatives lost a vote, or lawsuit, or election or something. Like, getting shut down doesn't mean that you didn't try.
You're still just focusing on two individual data points, rather than the trend. To repeat: outlying data happens. There are thousands of other factors. This is to be expected in any general trend.
With Michigan specifically, let's see what those variables might be: well, they have a full vaccination rate... just above 50%. I mean, that already can explain the discrepancy. Vaccination uptake rates make a bigger difference than social restrictions.
We can extrapolate that if they're less likely to bother getting vaccinated, then they're also probably going to be poorer at actually observing the restrictions that are in place.
And Michigan's cases rose mostly when restrictions were eased. Not when they were in place. In fact, Michigan had a spike attributed directly to school-age children returning to face-to-face learning, which is something you'd been calling for to happen
So, a thread about transphobic laws also has to get derailed into covid not being a big deal?
"People are talking about trans issues? Quick look over there!"
It's Fasci-tactics 101. Notice how all these kinds of threads end up completely derailed?
Save the "Covid is not a big deal, seriously!" for the threads about fucking Covid! This is about civil rights! Take the dumb, derailing arguments in the appropriate thread please.
Last edited:
The women were losing in those court proceedings. In your source "In May 2020, a federal judge dismissed the women's claim that they were paid less for the same work — along with other key parts of the suit, pointing to differences in the structure of the men's and women's contracts ". The women had their "equal pay" claim rejected because 1) they had been offered identical terms and turned them down, and 2) they had already made more than the men (just less than they would have if they had accepted the men's contract and won everything).The U.S. national women's soccer team wins $24 million in equal pay settlement
The team filed a class action lawsuit against the U.S. Soccer Federation in 2019, saying women's team members were paid thousands of dollars less than the men at nearly every level of competition.
The most baffling things conservatives try to do is say "but <x> doesn't happen, so conservatives don't do that" and it's because conservatives lost a vote, or lawsuit, or election or something. Like, getting shut down doesn't mean that you didn't try.
The Federation agreed to a settlement out of court to end the ongoing appeals. They didn't lose the lawsuit.
Lmao yeah, the "women made more than men if you count that they had to win way more and they did" was *why* it wasn't equal, you burk.
Fuck's sake, that's like arguing Sally had equal pay to Dan because Sally's 60hr a week paycheck was as big as Dan's 40hr a week check
And considering we're talking about Utah not Idaho, *and* I'd already linked a real world example of a trans dude not being allowed in the boy's bracket, I'm really curious as to what @Phoenixmgs is trying to pullYou might be right. Since Idaho was the first state, it didnt add it for transmen. But Texas and 10 other states did add it when they copied Idaho
Trans kids and supporters say new Texas law will keep them out of school sports
School districts have said they will abide by the law, but it’s still unclear how they will determine whether a student’s birth certificate was issued near the time of birth.
I don't actually know if that's true or not. The women's team rejected the same agreement as the men because they opted for a flatter, less incentive driven pay model, which is why after winning everything they made less than they would have on the men's contract because they would have hit all those incentives. So had neither team succeeded, it's possible the women would have actually made more for the same level of success. I don't actually know the details intimately enough to say either way there.
I don't know the ins and outs of drug testing in sports or if a woman not taking testosterone has failed the screening. I doubt they are testing for testosterone for no reason. Athletes will take anything that helps them to get any kind of advantage especially if it's as high stakes as the Olympics. Bikers are doping by getting blood transfusions; I'm sure some women take testosterone, men do as well. I don't get how you've come to the conclusion that this is "fear mongering".
The one girl that would've been in the competition if Lia Thomas hadn't been allowed to swim. Trans women over time will take spots on teams, will break women's records, will take scholarships because they do have the physical advantage, that's just what it is. So what if the vast majority of kids don't get scholarships, what does that matter? If trans people just want to be included, they are included and can compete, they aren't going to get a scholarship anyways right?
The Texas law isn't stopping anyone from competing but it's not going to result in it being fair for girls either. The law says you have to compete in on the team based on your sex so everyone can compete. Girls can play on boys teams only if there's no girls team. The problem with the law is that trans men will have to play on the girls teams and they'll have an advantage.You might be right. Since Idaho was the first state, it didnt add it for transmen. But Texas and 10 other states did add it when they copied Idaho
Trans kids and supporters say new Texas law will keep them out of school sports
School districts have said they will abide by the law, but it’s still unclear how they will determine whether a student’s birth certificate was issued near the time of birth.
Where's the actual law's wording? If that's true, then I'd agree that's one right trans people should have. Or is just the system not working against EMTs like when cops get off for stuff that is against the law.
As I said above to Mysterious, I don't know the ins and outs of athletic doping and the what's the top bar for woman testosterone levels. I would think that an athletic organization of the level of the Olympics would have done the science to know where to put that bar for testosterone levels. I would assume this was screened for before trans athletes because it's been known that higher testosterone in men and women increases performance and you'd have to test both of them anyway. What I do know is that athletes have forever done anything they could to get a performance edge (like baseball pitchers with spit or sticky stuff) and I'm sure men and women have both taken testosterone to do that along with many other things.
I am looking at trends. First, age is the biggest factor and after that is obesity. So when you adjust for age, what you see is that the worst states are the ones with the highest obese rates, which are also mainly red states. And Illinois has a higher vax rate than Florida and to this day, they exactly even when adjusted for age. And why do you keep making "infections/cases" a bad word, what matters is bad outcomes (hospitalizations and deaths). You mean when Michigan opened up after everyone was vaxxed like a year and a half after March 2020 (I'm assuming you're talking about 2021 fall)? Was the spike attributed to kids going back to school or just covid spiking because it's the fall and cold season in the midwest? Because covid spiked in northern blue states in fall 2020 when kids weren't in school as well. Also, the 1st versions of covid didn't spread via kids much, I don't know the data on Delta and Omicron. Michigan had kids go back to school during the more dangerous year, which is just how ridiculous these policies are. If you were to have kids miss a year of school based on safety, they should have missed 2021-2022 school year, not 2020-2021. Not that kids should've missed either year of school because covid is less dangerous to them than the flu. Do you know what trend you don't see, states with heavy restrictions doing any better than states without heavy restrictions.
Here's data for the first year of the pandemic, largely before mass vaccination obviously (and thus removes vaccine rates as a factor). Florida did BETTER than California in every regard, yet DeSantis is nicknamed DeathSantis, for what reason? Just because you don't like he didn't follow "the science"? Just because Florida used different science, like protecting the vulnerable, doesn't mean they didn't give 2 fucks about covid and did absolutely nothing and "let it rip". Just because "focused protection" became a bad word, doesn't mean it doesn't work or has no history of working (when it does).
Yes, the COVID mortality rate is higher in California than Florida - Alachua Chronicle
California has performed worse than Florida in terms of COVID-19 deaths in every way: total deaths, deaths per capita, and age-adjusted deaths per capita
alachuachronicle.com
The part where you're bolting it to trans people somehow. Current Olympic regulations require trans women to have testosterone level at or below the normal range for cis sportswomen for years.
Would've *maybe* gotten 16th instead of 17th as she was soundly blown out by 15 other cis girls. *If* she was in the running for an athletic scholarship, the dramatically bad showing of sportsmanship probably sunk it. Who's gonna give a scholarship to somebody willing to sue the school and league over a perceived slight?
Given that zero (0) trans people have gotten athletic scholarships thus far, sure. I'd be fine with them competing with the girls, which they are.
You're straight up going "it's not banning gay men from getting married, they can marry women just like everybody else". That's the level of logic you're on.
Last edited:
When I say Texas is banning in this context, I mean that Texas is banning people from playing in sports league that match their current gender. Which is exactly what the laws say