"Vaccines don't save lives"

gezodiac

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Reading into what Bachmann said is a bad idea. It was proven and backed up by her campaign workers when she ran for presidency that she read a headline and that was it she knew enough of the subject, where the actual article would then disprove whatever she would say on stage.

Anyways, vaccinations and those against it are most likely religious, or just afraid of science.

And I think I saw someone mention that more illnesses are occurring that need protecting from, ie peanut allergies etc.

Well in truth by natures law many of us should be dead, science it making it so we forego natural selection and live through disabilities.
 

Vareoth

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I don't think that vaccines are that evil. They are actually quite simple as explained by some of you already. As long as they are properly tested there is not much that could go wrong. I'd rather take my chances with a vaccine than with some asshole disease.
 

Machine Man 1992

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xDarc said:
The vaccines kids get today are not the ones I got in 1982-86. It's obvious that vaccines prevent disease, but it's also obvious that kids today are increasingly defective- not just with autism, but you never used to hear shit about peanut allergies or gluten intolerance either. Then you have have cancer being up 20% from 1990-2000 and expected to be up another 50% by 2020.

So maybe... something is very wrong.
I blame violent video games/sedentary lifestyle/liberals/immigrants/extraterrestrials.
 

Serinanth

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Kiwi the Tortoise said:
I love this thread :-D

If of 100.000 vaccinated people 2 die due to the injection
If of 100.000 people, five die of cancer

Snip
Don't ever tell me the odds!

The odds you gave are pretty bad, a 2 in 100 chance to die and 5 in 100 to get cancer? No thanks! :p

I do agree with the quantities argument, the amount of mercury in a shark steak is greater than that of the mercury additives in the vaccines.

While I have all my vaccines, my mom became very anti vaccine when my little sister was born, (I'm 33 shes 16) so the whole autism scandal was happening right around when she was born. And then they started pushing the gardasil and she freaked out even more. I have tried to have a rational conversation with her about vaccines and she wont listen at all. Thankfully the schools require the kids to get MMR, not sure about the others. I think the sheer number of and the age at which they are administered also bothered her.

Back then, everyone believed everything on the internet to be true.
 

Dangit2019

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MrMrAwesom said:
Well, the people that sell cures for disease have it in their interest for people to be sick so they can make money selling you the cure. Simple supply & demand.

I mean... even if that's not true, why even risk that being inside you?
I love how "VIRUSES", "INJECTED", "ARRESTED", "JAIL", and "WHY" are written in big menacing text.

I guess they forgot to mention that the viruses are dead, and the whole fucking point of them being in there is too pass harmlessly through the body so that the antibodies will be able to procure a formidable defense against them in the case of infection. But that's actual facts instead of BIG MENACING TEXT AND HYPERBOLIC STATEMENTS BY SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO SPELL "PHOSPHATE", and my sentiment just can't compare.

Also, why risk that being inside you? I'll tell you why in the form a fun little game: I want you to find a smallpox victim in your area.

THERE ISN'T ONE. AND THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT.
 

Thedutchjelle

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We have a measles outbreak now in the Netherlands despite out national vaccination program. Where this outbreak is located? In our so-called "Bible Belt", where the strict Christians live that refuse medical aid because "it's against the will of God".
There is also a new phenomena where mothers don't vaccinate their kids but hold parties when one of them becomes sick so their children can all get it "the normal way". FFS, the body doesn't care if it was a vaccine or the real thing to develop immunity - if it did, the vaccine wouldn't work. Except the real thing can kills 0.1% of the infected.

Sadly, I'm seeing more and more people claiming that vaccines are teh evulz and it's all part of a grand conspiracy of some kind. Obviously most of these people have zero background in science and barely comprehend how they work. As a student in biomedical sciences this pisses me off.

An expert virologist had a talk at one of our lectures a while ago, discussing the HPV vaccine for young girls to prevent uterus cancer. The turn-up for the vaccination was very low because of the false information that was circulating, that you could die/become paralyzed from it.
 

Unia

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Feline leukemia vaccine? Wait, you can have a vaccine against cancer?

Raggedstar said:
Something also interesting to note is that the thing a lot of people are concerned about are adjuvants (chemical additives to vaccines). Animal vaccines don't typically contain adjuvants (especially feline ones), while humans do. Most vaccines for animals also don't tend to contain mercury or mercury products either. Some food for thought.
Yup, don't know if the fuss over Pandemrix ever got publicity across the Atlantic. In Europe the link between a preservative and onset of narcolepsy was proven in adolescents and children. Any idea why animal vaccines don't have these adjuvants?
 

J Tyran

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MrMrAwesom said:
Well, the people that sell cures for disease have it in their interest for people to be sick so they can make money selling you the cure. Simple supply & demand.

I mean... even if that's not true, why even risk that being inside you?
Totally, why do we use all fill our bodies with these dangerous chemicals?


People die from DHMO all the time, did you know this stuff can actually corrode hardened steel into dust? If a human injests a certain amount their brain swells up so much it can kill.
 

Quaxar

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Unia said:
Feline leukemia vaccine? Wait, you can have a vaccine against cancer?
If it's caused by virus infections sure. Human cervical cancer is mainly caused by Human papillomavirus and pre-infection vaccination with Cervarix or Gardasil can cut your cervical cancer chance by over 90% for the next five years. Which is... pretty good if you can afford it.
 

funkyjiveturkey

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idarkphoenixi said:
TheYellowCellPhone said:
The claim isn't that vaccines don't save lives -- okay, some people do say that, obviously -- it's the claim that vaccines are bad or inherently unnatural. I think it's a fear that remains after the Autism Trials.

The autism omnibus trails, though it was thrown out of court for having no evidence that a mercury-based preservative in a vaccine caused autism (or that any case of mercury caused any type of autism), are entirely to blame, because people believe what they want to believe, especially if they don't understand what they believe.

It's a big fear of the magic word 'mercury', and that has spread to vaccines in general. Don't waste your time thinking about it. However, feel free to read up on the Autism Trials on Wikipedia, get educated and all the like.
Yeah, I heard about all that autism business. Pretty sure I first heard about it when Penn and Teller did an entire show debunking that claim.
Also I checked, it was Michelle Bachmann that said vaccines gave her kid autism, not Palin. Not like that's much better though, replacing one crazy with another.

It's kind of what I meant to say, that vaccines cause more illness than they save.
a woman like Michelle Bachmann has no right saying anything of the sort. If her kids are having autistic symptoms (social awkwardness, failure to comprehend social situations, maybe lagging in the classroom) it probably has a lot less to do with vaccines and more the fact that their mother is Michelle Bachmann! why is she allowed to keep doing and saying things!?

Jenny McCarthy was also a huge activist against vaccines after she claimed that vaccines "gave" her kid autism. I love how so many people who talk about autism really have no idea what it is or how one gets it.
 

funkyjiveturkey

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MrMrAwesom said:
Well, the people that sell cures for disease have it in their interest for people to be sick so they can make money selling you the cure. Simple supply & demand.

I mean... even if that's not true, why even risk that being inside you?

you probably don't know that there's more mercury in your average tuna sandwich than in any vaccine. Even then, all of the chemicals listed are in no way harmful to your system and can only improve your immune system because if a virus or chemical is introduced into the system on such a small level, your system builds up immunity. Formaldahyde keeps viruses and reproducing and spreading throughout the body, and ingredients like aluminium hydroxide stimulate antibody production.
 

OneCatch

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J Tyran said:


People die from DHMO all the time, did you know this stuff can actually corrode hardened steel into dust? If a human injests a certain amount their brain swells up so much it can kill.
I am stealing that image. It's beautiful. Trying to come up with own terrifying warning...

"DHMO kills 200,000 people per year, and is the leading chemical killer of children [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_preventable_causes_of_death#Leading_causes_among_children_worldwide] in the US."
 

Deadcyde

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OneCatch said:
J Tyran said:


People die from DHMO all the time, did you know this stuff can actually corrode hardened steel into dust? If a human injests a certain amount their brain swells up so much it can kill.
I am stealing that image. It's beautiful. Trying to come up with own terrifying warning...

"DHMO kills 200,000 people per year, and is the leading chemical killer of children [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_preventable_causes_of_death#Leading_causes_among_children_worldwide] in the US."
I also love how that list doesn't have old age as a cause of death.. why, we would be immortal if it we're for those meddling kids!

*smh*
 

Uszi

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MrHide-Patten said:
I say when the next megavirus comes in, Darwinism will do it's job and the moronic will get what's coming to them... flaky puss boils.
The biggest problem with anti-vac people are that there are people who are legitimately unable to receive vaccinations (say, babies born with a form of immune deficiency, that little girl that got a lung transplant definitely can't receive any vaccines for a while) and these people depend on "herd immunity" [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity] to protect them from stuff like measles and whooping cough, etc.

The more people electing to not vaccinate, the weaker the herd immunity, and the larger the susceptible population.

Anti-vac parents aren't just putting their own kids or selves at risk, which is why they really need to be educated and not ignored.
 

Raggedstar

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Unia said:
Feline leukemia vaccine? Wait, you can have a vaccine against cancer?

Raggedstar said:
Something also interesting to note is that the thing a lot of people are concerned about are adjuvants (chemical additives to vaccines). Animal vaccines don't typically contain adjuvants (especially feline ones), while humans do. Most vaccines for animals also don't tend to contain mercury or mercury products either. Some food for thought.
Yup, don't know if the fuss over Pandemrix ever got publicity across the Atlantic. In Europe the link between a preservative and onset of narcolepsy was proven in adolescents and children. Any idea why animal vaccines don't have these adjuvants?
Quaxar is right. The full name for the vaccine is Feline Leukemia virus (or FLv), so it covers the virus that triggers the cancer. There is also technically a vaccine for FIV (the cat version of HIV in humans) but it's not widely used because it's efficacy is questionable. Also vaccines for melanoma (to trigger regression of melanoma and increase survival times, not to prevent or cure it), but they're not widely available.

As for the adjuvants, odds are it's because animal medicine is allowed to be more flexible than human medicine (though a lot of our drugs are from more human-related companies like Pfizer). I can't give you anything else other than that since I don't know for sure, but it would make sense. Though as I mentioned before, especially in cats, there is a direct proven correlation to vaccines adjuvants and health problems, namely cancer (fibrosarcoma). Companies like Merial will often pay for treatment (surgery), but it is a malignant cancer so even with surgical removal your cat (or dog, though less frequent) may still die eventually from it due to metastasis. The most common vaccines usually associated with it are rabies and FLv. Rabies is required by law in most areas (due to a very real human health risk, and pre-exposure rabies vaccines aren't routinely given to people...and for those Canadians, I'll tell you from experience it's not covered by OHIP), so this is the only sensible thing to do.

Where the lump is, that's where the vaccine went. I don't know the brands or what type of vaccine, but even the safer vaccines from companies like Merial can cause this.



Notice how these three are in the scruff of the neck. That's actually against advised protocol for vaccination in animals. A lot of vets do it in the scruff of the neck because it's the easiest place (scruffing both gives you skin and a method of front-body restraint), but normally they should be done in the limbs so amputation would be possible if needed.
 

J Tyran

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OneCatch said:
J Tyran said:


People die from DHMO all the time, did you know this stuff can actually corrode hardened steel into dust? If a human injests a certain amount their brain swells up so much it can kill.
I am stealing that image. It's beautiful. Trying to come up with own terrifying warning...

"DHMO kills 200,000 people per year, and is the leading chemical killer of children [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_preventable_causes_of_death#Leading_causes_among_children_worldwide] in the US."
I stole it myself for occasions like this, there are loads but that ones styled like the GHS or ICSC cards.
 

Deadcyde

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Jan 11, 2011
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Raggedstar said:
Unia said:
Feline leukemia vaccine? Wait, you can have a vaccine against cancer?

Raggedstar said:
Something also interesting to note is that the thing a lot of people are concerned about are adjuvants (chemical additives to vaccines). Animal vaccines don't typically contain adjuvants (especially feline ones), while humans do. Most vaccines for animals also don't tend to contain mercury or mercury products either. Some food for thought.
Yup, don't know if the fuss over Pandemrix ever got publicity across the Atlantic. In Europe the link between a preservative and onset of narcolepsy was proven in adolescents and children. Any idea why animal vaccines don't have these adjuvants?
Quaxar is right. The full name for the vaccine is Feline Leukemia virus (or FLv), so it covers the virus that triggers the cancer. There is also technically a vaccine for FIV (the cat version of HIV in humans) but it's not widely used because it's efficacy is questionable. Also vaccines for melanoma (to trigger regression of melanoma and increase survival times, not to prevent or cure it), but they're not widely available.

As for the adjuvants, odds are it's because animal medicine is allowed to be more flexible than human medicine (though a lot of our drugs are from more human-related companies like Pfizer). I can't give you anything else other than that since I don't know for sure, but it would make sense. Though as I mentioned before, especially in cats, there is a direct proven correlation to vaccines adjuvants and health problems, namely cancer (fibrosarcoma). Companies like Merial will often pay for treatment (surgery), but it is a malignant cancer so even with surgical removal your cat (or dog, though less frequent) may still die eventually from it due to metastasis. The most common vaccines usually associated with it are rabies and FLv. Rabies is required by law in most areas (due to a very real human health risk, and pre-exposure rabies vaccines aren't routinely given to people...and for those Canadians, I'll tell you from experience it's not covered by OHIP), so this is the only sensible thing to do.

Where the lump is, that's where the vaccine went. I don't know the brands or what type of vaccine, but even the safer vaccines from companies like Merial can cause this.



Notice how these three are in the scruff of the neck. That's actually against advised protocol for vaccination in animals. A lot of vets do it in the scruff of the neck because it's the easiest place (scruffing both gives you skin and a method of front-body restraint), but normally they should be done in the limbs so amputation would be possible if needed.


...... not to sound callous, but this is fucking cats we're talking about here, the assholes of the animal kingdom. Hardly a case when there is no analogue in even the remotest sense for humans.
 

Nikolaz72

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Apr 23, 2009
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xDarc said:
The vaccines kids get today are not the ones I got in 1982-86. It's obvious that vaccines prevent disease, but it's also obvious that kids today are increasingly defective- not just with autism, but you never used to hear shit about peanut allergies or gluten intolerance either. Then you have have cancer being up 20% from 1990-2000 and expected to be up another 50% by 2020.

So maybe... something is very wrong.
In the 82-86 we didn't hold electronic waves up to our brains 90% of awake-time either.