Valve Says PS3 Complexity Hinders Game Development

[Jumplion]

What is the big deal about Valve not porting games to the PS3? There are games for the PS3 I want on the 360 but that will not happen and so I will have to buy a PS3. If people want to play Valve games they will have to buy the PC or console that runs those games.

Complaining about it will not make things better it will only serve to create more flamewars and make people more angry. If Valve says the PS3 hinders development we should respect their decision and leave it at that.

But I'm not. saying. that. I could care less if a VALVe game is on PS3, I do not care. I wholeheartedly agree with your statement that if you want to play a game that's for PS3 you'd have to buy a PS3 and vice versa for 360/PC. There's nothing wrong with a little debate/discussion or whatever, but all I am saying is that VALVe can't exactly comment on how the "complexity" of the PS3 hinders games because they have done nothing with it. I'm not commenting on them being lazy, I'm not criticizing them for not bringing their games to PS3, I'm just pointing out that their argument holds little water when they've done nothing with the hardware they're criticizing.

 

[Bat Vader]

What is the big deal about Valve not porting games to the PS3? There are games for the PS3 I want on the 360 but that will not happen and so I will have to buy a PS3. If people want to play Valve games they will have to buy the PC or console that runs those games.

Complaining about it will not make things better it will only serve to create more flamewars and make people more angry. If Valve says the PS3 hinders development we should respect their decision and leave it at that.

But I'm not. saying. that. I could care less if a VALVe game is on PS3, I do not care. I wholeheartedly agree with your statement that if you want to play a game that's for PS3 you'd have to buy a PS3 and vice versa for 360/PC. There's nothing wrong with a little debate/discussion or whatever, but all I am saying is that VALVe can't exactly comment on how the "complexity" of the PS3 hinders games because they have done nothing with it. I'm not commenting on them being lazy, I'm not criticizing them for not bringing their games to PS3, I'm just pointing out that their argument holds little water when they've done nothing with the hardware they're criticizing.

We assume they have done nothing with it. Maybe they have and did not like it. There was not enough material in the article to explain it.

I just don't like the flamewars on the subject. I mean most likely everyone here is either entering high school or out of high school. I just wish there was more maturity and civil discussions.

I mean if I do not like a game some people feel I insulted them because I do not like what they like. I don't mean to make a big deal out of this all I wish for is more maturity and unity. In the end we are all gamers whether we use different consoles or play different games.

 

[Zer_]

**snip**

The Cell itself has a single (Very simplified) PowerPC processor inside of it to act as a controller for the other coprocessors. This PowerPC processor is rather easy to code for. It's the other 6 processors on the PS3 that cause the issues. (There are a total of 8 coprocessors, but Sony has made only 6 available to game developers).

The Simplified PowerPC processor in the PS3 is heavily simplified in that it is not as powerful as say a regular PowerPC running at the same frequency. The processor is still able to run standard Linux operating systems though, which is why people are capable of running Linux and Linux games on the PS3. These programs are only able to use one processor.

There are very few details about the core within the 360. Many people assume that it is based off of the Cell's PowerPC processor and if it is it is heavily modified otherwise the 360 wouldn't be as powerful as it is.

Also the 360's disk capacity is not an issue as games are able to use multiple disks.

The Xenon is just 3 modified PPE's stuck together, so the 360 can do 6 threads, instead of 2 (just through PPEs). The PS3 uses the PPE to control 8 SPE's, as well as process, of which only 6 are used for gaming. So, it's looking fairly likely specialised code gets run on the SPEs and then PPE runs the main stuff.

360 just has more operational grunt in the PPE, and has no SPE's but still is a derivative of the Cell. I'd largely say, the Cell without the guff that makes it hard to use, to be honest.

People know that Microsoft went to IBM to get a processor for their console and IBM presented them with a PowerPC processor of some sorts (Which is actually a series of processors that was developed in 1992 by AIM). Microsoft tweaked the processor to better fit the role it would play in the 360 and then went from there. Since the PPE within the PS3 lacks many of the advanced features like MMX style technologies (I'm not certain what they are called within the PowerPC processors.). MMX basically solved the issue where a Processor would sit idle for roughly 80% of its computing time waiting for more data to be loaded from the cache. MMX solved this by having the processor compute other things while it waited for memory. The more features you add into the processor the more heat it generates though.

The Cell's PPE is very simple when compared to say an Intel processor. It can run at high clock speeds without using too much voltage and without generating too much heat. A simplified version of the PowerPC was a logical choice for the Cell because it wasn't the PPE that would take the brunt of the workload.

Let it be known that it is not actually confirmed that the 360's processors are modified PPEs. It is likely a regular PowerPC processor which implements some of the ideas coming from the PPEs on the Cell, and designed with a triple core architecture.

 

[Jonny49]

The orange box on the ps3 played pretty well. Only HL2 episode 2 had any real problems but everything else worked fine. Anyway, why would you want to play valve games on consoles anyway? They're built for PC.

 

[nathan-dts]

Erm Valve, don't be lazy.

 

[sdafdfhrye3245]

Valve isnt really interested in any of the consoles IMO plus why should they care all there games are really only meant for pc (please no one go omg hater blarg)

 

[Adeptus_Astartes]

Personaly i have two things to say,
1 in response

Valve isnt really interested in any of the consoles IMO plus why should they care all there games are really only meant for pc (please no one go omg hater blarg)

eh i pretty much agree because of the lack of any updates whatsoever for the orange box

2
I think i really like valve right now.

 

[300lb. Samoan]

If they want to put their games on the Xbox 360, PC, NeoGeo NeoGeo NeoGeo NeoGeo NeoGeo NeoGeo NeoGeo NeoGeo NeoGeo NeoGeo NeoGeo NeoGeo

Suddenly... Team Fortress! A SPRITE-BASED FIGHTER IS YOU!!!!

Edit: Apparently someone made a Mugen with 2fort as the background and HWG as a playable character, which would illustrate my point beautifully, but it ran up it bandwidth limit on photobucket.

Please excuse my extreme noobyness but I fail to understand.

Maybe it's because I'm nothing but a "dumb" console-tard....

If I remember correctly, almost every great Neo Geo game was a fighting game.
So Valve, plus Neo Geo, equals HL Vs. TF2 Turbo Alpha Edition

 

[Pendragon9]

Well done Sony, you gave the developers a Rubik's Cube even less entertaining than playing with one.

Well done, FinalGamer. You said something that reeks of trollbait. Enjoy worshipping Valve like their crap smells like flowers.

Well they never had a bad game yet really, so until they do I can worship them without any regrets to my will

But I'll apologise for the PS3 comment, I don't hate the system or any of the owners, I just hate Sony.

I don't know why one would hate Sony, unless you had a bad experience with them. Though it does happen with Microsoft alot of the time, so I can understand.

It's just that I hate Valve saying this, like they think it's true or something. The Ps3 does NOT hinder game development. Otherwise there wouldn't be one good game on it. But gee, I see a whole mountain worth of games. But nobody cares because the other mountains are slightly bigger. Oh well.

And if you think the PS3 hinders game development because of the time needed, I think I need to remind you all of the Super Smash Brothers Brawl delays. On a supposedly "superior" system, no less.

 

[300lb. Samoan]

::snip:: tl;dr

Erm Valve, don't be lazy.

For great reading about how not-lazy Valve is and how difficult it is to port from XBox to PS3, see most of the posts above.

 

[Pendragon9]

::snip:: tl;dr

Erm Valve, don't be lazy.

For great reading about how not-lazy Valve is and how difficult it is to port from XBox to PS3, see most of the posts above.

It's not difficult to port. Everyone else does it without problems. Valve should really step up.

I know you're gonna say how game developers should be given credit since they all work in different ways, but really, this is a basic thing. If you can't port data over to a console because you think it's hard, your people are pretty retarded. Especially since people consider Valve the best PC developers since ever, it's no excuse.

People can port games from the Ps3 and 360 to the Pc, and people who make emulators don't seem to have issues. So what's so hard about it?

Valve can't make great games and then claim it's too hard to port them. I refuse to accept that.

 

[300lb. Samoan]

Valve can't make great games and then claim it's too hard to port them. I refuse to accept that.

That's why I said you need to read the entire thread, we've spent a lot of time discussing how different the processor architecture is between the PS3 and XBox, and how much effort would go into making Valve's engines compatible with PS3 after all the work they've done on the DirectX API. That, plus once you take into account the demographic information about PS3 owners, it doesn't make sense for Valve to put that time and effort in. It just doesn't make sense for them to invest the time and effort into PS3 development, unless they start a new engine from the ground up.

 

[Pendragon9]

Valve can't make great games and then claim it's too hard to port them. I refuse to accept that.

That's why I said you need to read the entire thread, we've spent a lot of time discussing how different the processor architecture is between the PS3 and XBox, and how much effort would go into making Valve's engines compatible with PS3 after all the work they've done on the DirectX API. That, plus once you take into account the demographic information about PS3 owners, it doesn't make sense for Valve to put that time and effort in. It just doesn't make sense for them to invest the time and effort into PS3 development, unless they start a new engine from the ground up.

Well, what about the Orange box? It seems they did that without incident. Why can't they give the rest of their games the same treatment? And don't tell me the PS3 orange box was an absolute flop. All I hear is how the game pack is great despite the console, save for a few bits of glitching and lag.

 

[nathan-dts]

::snip:: tl;dr

Erm Valve, don't be lazy.

For great reading about how not-lazy Valve is and how difficult it is to port from XBox to PS3, see most of the posts above.

Well I'm sorry if I didn't read over 300 posts. Also, why don't they develop to PS3 then port it to 360?

 

[Woe Is You]

Well, what about the Orange box? It seems they did that without incident. Why can't they give the rest of their games the same treatment? And don't tell me the PS3 orange box was an absolute flop. All I hear is how the game pack is great despite the console, save for a few bits of glitching and lag.

Wasn't ported by Valve (some team at EA did a rush job at it), wasn't up to their standards and didn't sell nearly as well as the 360 and the PC counterparts of the The Orange Box.

Well I'm sorry if I didn't read over 300 posts. Also, why don't they develop to PS3 then port it to 360?

The main points are recapped on the last page, though.

And they're primarily a PC developer. The 360 version itself is a port.

 

[FinalGamer]

Well done Sony, you gave the developers a Rubik's Cube even less entertaining than playing with one.

Well done, FinalGamer. You said something that reeks of trollbait. Enjoy worshipping Valve like their crap smells like flowers.

Well they never had a bad game yet really, so until they do I can worship them without any regrets to my will

But I'll apologise for the PS3 comment, I don't hate the system or any of the owners, I just hate Sony.

I don't know why one would hate Sony, unless you had a bad experience with them. Though it does happen with Microsoft alot of the time, so I can understand.

It's just that I hate Valve saying this, like they think it's true or something. The Ps3 does NOT hinder game development. Otherwise there wouldn't be one good game on it. But gee, I see a whole mountain worth of games. But nobody cares because the other mountains are slightly bigger. Oh well.

And if you think the PS3 hinders game development because of the time needed, I think I need to remind you all of the Super Smash Brothers Brawl delays. On a supposedly "superior" system, no less.

Who says the Wii is superior? It's the power of two Gamecubes which is nice but nothing compared to the other two. And oh jesus the Shovelware.
Oh also, Sony ripped off Europe and I'm very pissed at them.

As for Brawl's delays, I only remember that happening once and that set the US release date back by three months. Not as bad as say Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness, a horrendous insult to the franchise which had a year long triple-delay.
Or there's Harmonix's Rock Band with Australia, as Yahtzee told us about in his Guitar Hero: World Tour review.

As for the fact about why Valve says the PS3 hinders game development and yet there's quite a few ports on the PS3....well someone else with a much better technical mind can sort that out for me.

 

[Riding on Thermals]

I don't know why one would hate Sony, unless you had a bad experience with them. Though it does happen with Microsoft alot of the time, so I can understand.

It's just that I hate Valve saying this, like they think it's true or something. The Ps3 does NOT hinder game development. Otherwise there wouldn't be one good game on it. But gee, I see a whole mountain worth of games. But nobody cares because the other mountains are slightly bigger. Oh well.

And if you think the PS3 hinders game development because of the time needed, I think I need to remind you all of the Super Smash Brothers Brawl delays. On a supposedly "superior" system, no less.

You make ridiculous assertions like it's your job. Either you really believe the things you just came up with are provable fact just by the virtue that you thought them, or you're trolling. STOP IT.

First: He may have had a bad experience with sony, he may not have. this is clearly flamebait.

Second: Why do you hate VALVe, did you have a bad experience with them? /sarcasm. By definition, if it is more complex to build a game for a system then it hinders development, which was the point of this whole thread. I don't know what mountain of epic exclusive games you're referring to, but there are good exclusives on both systems. The PS3 is not the end all be all system, neither is the 360.

Third: You're example is SSBB. HAHAHA who gives a shit? not only does it exist on an inferior system, the only good SS was the original. No, not the soldiers. Games get delayed for various reasons, but when the delay is automatically built into the development time to deal with the architecture of the system it is a prohibitive characteristic.

 

[Pendragon9]

I don't know why one would hate Sony, unless you had a bad experience with them. Though it does happen with Microsoft alot of the time, so I can understand.

It's just that I hate Valve saying this, like they think it's true or something. The Ps3 does NOT hinder game development. Otherwise there wouldn't be one good game on it. But gee, I see a whole mountain worth of games. But nobody cares because the other mountains are slightly bigger. Oh well.

And if you think the PS3 hinders game development because of the time needed, I think I need to remind you all of the Super Smash Brothers Brawl delays. On a supposedly "superior" system, no less.

You make ridiculous assertions like it's your job. Either you really believe the things you just came up with are provable fact just by the virtue that you thought them, or you're trolling. STOP IT.

First: He may have had a bad experience with sony, he may not have. this is clearly flamebait.

Second: Why do you hate VALVe, did you have a bad experience with them? /sarcasm. By definition, if it is more complex to build a game for a system then it hinders development, which was the point of this whole thread. I don't know what mountain of epic exclusive games you're referring to, but there are good exclusives on both systems. The PS3 is not the end all be all system, neither is the 360.

Third: You're example is SSBB. HAHAHA who gives a shit? not only does it exist on an inferior system, the only good SS was the original. No, not the soldiers. Games get delayed for various reasons, but when the delay is automatically built into the development time to deal with the architecture of the system it is a prohibitive characteristic.

My point is that this thread gave people an excuse to once again ridicule Sony like they're the retard child at the party who drinks all the Fanta and then wets himself.

Valve says the Ps3 is hard to develop for, everyone takes it as "lol Sony Sux." If someone doesn't fall for this tripe of balogna, then they're called a fanboy or a retard or a Sony kissup.

Excuse me if I don't just listen to everything I'm told. I actually question everything to ensure it's validity.

And FYI, I don't hate Valve. You just assume I do.

 

[sunpop]

If it's so damn hard how come there are indie developers with very few people working on one game coming out with games for it and valve cant seem to figure it out with there team of programmers. One day he will admit they sold out to Microsoft but it's fine valve is pretty stupid anyway with there idea of having another program running to play a game. Only time I use steam is if i have to or they have a game for really cheap.

On a side note the ps3 has avoided the spam of shitty games with it's setup as opposed to Nintendo who welcomes these horrible games like the carnival ones.