Valve Talks TF2 Engineer Update Failures

randommaster

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Sir John The Net Knight said:
randommaster said:
I take offense to that, sir or madame! I challenge you to a game of exploding chess!

It was jus a thought, so I wasn't really considering all the gameplay implications. It's what Valve has done with pretty much every other class, though, and it lets the Engie leave the sentry alone, which was the point of the Repair Node and still let the Engie build teleporters and dispensers.

Anything new is going to be really hard to do, though, since swaping weapons doesn't change much and changing buildings messes with the game.

Who knows, maybe the engineer will be able to Voltron-out a bunch of structures and walk around in a homemade mech suit. Whatever it is, I'm interested in seeing how Valve solves the problem.
Well, don't feel too bad. It would seem the professionals aren't having any better luck than you. I made an idea for a radioactive shotgun that paint's targets for the sentry. But I might have given it too many cool abilities in retrospect. Game balance is a tricky thing, after all.
They could try something with a minimum range. That might let them do something like a low level rocket-sentry, but it would only be easier for spies to destroy. Maybe it would detect spies, who knows.
 

AceDiamond

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randommaster said:
Sir John The Net Knight said:
randommaster said:
I take offense to that, sir or madame! I challenge you to a game of exploding chess!

It was jus a thought, so I wasn't really considering all the gameplay implications. It's what Valve has done with pretty much every other class, though, and it lets the Engie leave the sentry alone, which was the point of the Repair Node and still let the Engie build teleporters and dispensers.

Anything new is going to be really hard to do, though, since swaping weapons doesn't change much and changing buildings messes with the game.

Who knows, maybe the engineer will be able to Voltron-out a bunch of structures and walk around in a homemade mech suit. Whatever it is, I'm interested in seeing how Valve solves the problem.
Well, don't feel too bad. It would seem the professionals aren't having any better luck than you. I made an idea for a radioactive shotgun that paint's targets for the sentry. But I might have given it too many cool abilities in retrospect. Game balance is a tricky thing, after all.
They could try something with a minimum range. That might let them do something like a low level rocket-sentry, but it would only be easier for spies to destroy. Maybe it would detect spies, who knows.
Maybe some sort of trip device that shorts out a spy's cloak?
 

randommaster

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AceDiamond said:
randommaster said:
Sir John The Net Knight said:
randommaster said:
I take offense to that, sir or madame! I challenge you to a game of exploding chess!

It was jus a thought, so I wasn't really considering all the gameplay implications. It's what Valve has done with pretty much every other class, though, and it lets the Engie leave the sentry alone, which was the point of the Repair Node and still let the Engie build teleporters and dispensers.

Anything new is going to be really hard to do, though, since swaping weapons doesn't change much and changing buildings messes with the game.

Who knows, maybe the engineer will be able to Voltron-out a bunch of structures and walk around in a homemade mech suit. Whatever it is, I'm interested in seeing how Valve solves the problem.
Well, don't feel too bad. It would seem the professionals aren't having any better luck than you. I made an idea for a radioactive shotgun that paint's targets for the sentry. But I might have given it too many cool abilities in retrospect. Game balance is a tricky thing, after all.
They could try something with a minimum range. That might let them do something like a low level rocket-sentry, but it would only be easier for spies to destroy. Maybe it would detect spies, who knows.
Maybe some sort of trip device that shorts out a spy's cloak?
I would think that it would stun enemies for a short time. It could be like a mine, even though that would step on the Demo's toes a bit. I don't think that anything that only works against spies would be good, though, as the functionality is too narrow.
 

MR T3D

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AceDiamond said:
axle 19 said:
I cant really think of anything they can add to the engineer to make it better. Maybe a joke weapon or two like the jarate?

Knife-Wrench! Practical and safe.

Actually ever since Valve started the contribution thing I've been thinking up possible Engineer updates. I of course thought in the wrong direction, thinking of weapons and not buildables for the most part, but still. My ideas consisted of a shotgun that gave you metal for scoring critical hits and kills (the latter giving more than the former) and a sledgehammer that built structures faster but swung slower, and also dealt more damage at a further reach.
KNIFE WRENCH!
part knife and part wrench!
for kids!
actually, if it built stuff a little slower, but was effective in melee combat. and/or gave a small health boost
(at least as powerful as spy knife in terms of frontal damage)
be a better choice for engies in combat, but tradeoff is a little slower building up after saps&losses
IDEA!
 

Grigori361

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heh, maybe a death teleporter? it kills any spies that try to use it, looks the exact same, but can only be upgrades to level 2?

That aside I still think the blowtorch would be an interesting idea, or perhaps a sentry with half health and double damage & rate of fire or something?

Oh or maybe some sort of goggles or something that allow you to see through cloaking, or disguises? (but not both)

Oh wait.... here's an idea, a dispenser that damages any disgusted spies that try to come withing healing range? But ignored any none disguised enemies spy or otherwise.
 

Grigori361

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Oh something that totally missed my thoughts, buildings with residences to certain types of damage, and vulnerabilities to others?? Maybe too complex though.
 

Scylla6

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One idea I've just had (which may be bad and ruin the game but, meh) is a sort of laser sighter for your sentry, giving it slightly increased damage and also letting it shoot otherwise out of range targets. But that isn't the best bit. You see, when you tag a target that just so happens to be a super obvious spy, they decloak, causing a massive amount of shooty death. However one should not become trigger happy as the device may or may not cause teamkilling. Fair warning.

What do you think?
 

Dr. Crawver

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The engineer update ideas I've heard of were the mothership and the shotgun/sentry. Does anyone know if they're still going?
 

Dr. Crawver

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it's an idea, but may not be viable, as the increased strength would make the sentry too powerful , and most engineers would ignore the sighting ability and just se it as a slightly better version of the standard sentry. Equally a reduction in strength to balance it and make the laser sighting more appropriate would just result in the new sentry being ignored as it would only help against spies, only 1/9th of the enemy force, and to aim it would leave you open to a soldier, heavy or demoman strike who would take advantage of the window of you without your wrentch out. With almost every updated weapon there's been, it has completely changed gameplay (none moreso than the kritzkreig, a support weapon, like a sentry), and I doubt the engineers favourite toy will be an acception, what's most likely is something along the lines of a flame sentry, or an area affect sentry, but if they do change it directly, you can garuntee it'll act in a completely different way to the conventional version.
 

Bek359

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Here's an idea: a screen that you would put up on a wall that shows the locations of enemies, like a radar. Level 1, just senses within a limited area. Level 2, senses the entire map. Level 3, senses spies. Would replace... I dunno, the pistol? Maybe the spy thing should be handled differently, but I think it'd be a good idea. Sick of playing Doublecross without a mike and not being able to tell people to check the basement without spending time to type it out.
 

Katana314

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Bek: I actually had an idea similar to that for the Scout, also replacing the pistol, funnily enough. I thought it fit well because so often as a Scout, you're running around outrunning or dodging past enemies who can't instantly realize you're there, but that one enemy, a sentry, will always instant-kill you before you realized it was in the next room. (of course, it would sense buildings)

I have an idea to replace the repair node, actually. The idea is to keep the Engineer from having to come back to his base every 5 seconds to repair it because some scout got a few shots off before he died. I kinda thought back to how the sandwich fixes the Heavy's problem of health without making Medics more useful.

Basically: A sentry that has about THREE times the health of a normal sentry, but CANNOT be repaired. What it could also do is upon damage, turn on a siren for nearby teammates to "Get your ass over here, I'm takin' damage by some jackass just out of my line of sight." If you notice, people attacking sentries are usually pretty vulnerable, so some teammate is normally the best solution.
What this would do best at is providing a solid defense without the engineer around, but be no better at it if the engineer were sitting behind it. It may also encourage the engineer to think of sentries as a little more disposable; so he doesn't care if it gets blown up, and quickly decides to put a new one elsewhere.
As for spies, it would make sense that sapping it would take three times as long. Also, if engineers get really pissed about not being able to repair, a VERY long-term regenerative health feature could be added (for instance, after 30 seconds of no damage, it will begin repairing 3 health at a time every 5 seconds)

Also, fair warning to anyone thinking of devices that punish enemy spies: No. These result in a chuckle from Valve before being chucked in the "DEFINITE NO" pile. Believe it or not, nice people play Spy, and they're trying to help avoid a stalemate in a way that takes some firm risks and takes a lot to pay off. In TF2, anything that kills or damages without warning is considered unfair (Spy can't attack cloaked, makes a sound uncloaking, Sniper has a red dot, all other weapons are loud). Thus a disguised building would basically punish Spies who are trying to destroy buildings (And one look at the scoreboard tells you: DESTROYING THINGS IS MEANT TO BE A GOAL.) and actually discourage them from doing so.

On a similar note, I'll say the Razorback was a horrible idea for both the Sniper and the Spy. In some ways I think it was a "Well, FINE! Here you GO!" to Snipers whining about Spies. Ironic because it doesn't even help much now that they have no SMG.
 

Blights

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Zer_ said:
Give the engineer a sort of hacking device and a remote control that allows him to control both friendly and enemy sentries. Of course it has its limitations.

-Only one sentry can be controlled at any given time.
-The engineer must actually throw the tapping device onto an enemy sentry without dying.
-He cannot control both himself and the sentry at once.
-The remote and receiver have limited range.
-Using the tapper, you can effectively shoot anyone in view, thus eliminating the effect of the short targeting distance for the sentry.

The hacking device could also cause things like teleporters and dispensers to malfunction. Imagine having your lower body come out backwards a-la Spaceballs due to teleport malfunction. This would cause your directional controls to be reversed. Other odd and funny malfunctions could prop up.

Hack dispensers so they dispense small furry balls known as Trubbles (Trek reference ftw) instead of ammunition. So basically, when the enemy team runs out of ammo, they end up having harmless Trubbles that they can throw at enemies. Trubbles could do something like 5 damage when hitting an enemy thus adding a comedy factor (and potential achievements).
Haha, I already thought of an Achievement.
"Trubble for you!"
Kill an Enemy with a harmless Trubble.
 

Canebrake

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How about a Mortar replacement for the turret?
Give it a nice lengthy cool down and a mediocre to long range splash damage range,but it only does light damage on anything that isn't a direct hit?
give it a top down "satellite view",so you can see what's going on. Perhaps toss a delay on the feed.
You could make it inaccurate too,but maybe make it get progressively more accurate if you keep firing on the same spot.


I bet it'd end up a sort of a anti engineer weapon. Now that adds a whole new layer to the need of a team that actually works together.
 

Treblaine

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Here's an idea.

Engie is Texan

Texas is famous for it's oil

Oil is flammable

Spy is ultimate enemy of engie

Spy is vulnerable to flame

So maybe a new structure could be an oil rig that can spray oil in a super flame thrower to scan for spies and maybe even protect choke points?
 

Treblaine

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Bek359 said:
Here's an idea: a screen that you would put up on a wall that shows the locations of enemies, like a radar. Level 1, just senses within a limited area. Level 2, senses the entire map. Level 3, senses spies. Would replace... I dunno, the pistol? Maybe the spy thing should be handled differently, but I think it'd be a good idea. Sick of playing Doublecross without a mike and not being able to tell people to check the basement without spending time to type it out.
Best idea yet... but it should require a building for it to work like a radar dish to scan.

But how would it deal with cloaked or disguised spies? Maybe if a spy is discovered it will be "flagged" and all other players alerted to kill the spy.
 

That-Ginger-Kid

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I hope they hurry up with the update thought,
and when i see medic the medic (which im sure will be the next one out)
that should mean not long to wait,
but regarding the different weapons,
im thinking they might make a weapon which is less powerful but will cover spys, like previous ideas of using oil, maybe the gun will do -20% than shotgun, but leaves the enemy covered in oil, so if they cloak you can still see them and provide bonuses once hit with fire
 

pffh

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How about a screen that beeps when a cloaked or disguised spy moves through it. It would basically be two pillars with a red or blue force field between them (the distance between the pillars could be adjusted but the max range should only be a couple of yards) and a control center. The pillars would be unsappable/invulnerable but the control center could be sapped and has little health.
The pillars would replace the shotgun and the control center the pistol.

Cost: 25 metal for each pillar and 50 for the control center
Level 1: beeps when anyone walks through it
Level 2: beeps when an enemy walks through it
Level 3: beeps and depletes an enemy spies cloak when he walks through it

This would give engineer some ability to defend against spies but they would have to give up their weapon making it easier for the spy to kill them. Also a cloak and dagger spy could just stand still as soon as he was on the other side of it and cloak again and a dead ringers cloak regenerates fast enough.
 

Billion Backs

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A medic that doesn't heal is not necessarily a detriment on one's team.

Two medic ubersaw combo can be pretty effective...

I certainly can't wait till they come up with something for Engineer update. I love my engie.
 

Billion Backs

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pffh said:
How about a screen that beeps when a cloaked or disguised spy moves through it. It would basically be two pillars with a red or blue force field between them (the distance between the pillars could be adjusted but the max range should only be a couple of yards) and a control center. The pillars would be unsappable/invulnerable but the control center could be sapped and has little health.
The pillars would replace the shotgun and the control center the pistol.

Cost: 25 metal for each pillar and 50 for the control center
Level 1: beeps when anyone walks through it
Level 2: beeps when an enemy walks through it
Level 3: beeps and depletes an enemy spies cloak when he walks through it

This would give engineer some ability to defend against spies but they would have to give up their weapon making it easier for the spy to kill them. Also a cloak and dagger spy could just stand still as soon as he was on the other side of it and cloak again and a dead ringers cloak regenerates fast enough.
I think it's too specialized... But then again, snipers get the useless back shield option that only helps against spies too.

I'm thinking more of interesting gameplay options. Maybe some kind of a magnet. Like, an oversized cartoon magnet with a gun handle instead of the shot gun that would allow to perhaps steal ammo from enemies or manipulate environment in some way.