Valve Wants Customer Disputes in Small Claims Court

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Karloff

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Valve Wants Customer Disputes in Small Claims Court



The Steampowered company has introduced arbitration as part of its new dispute resolution scheme.

Changes to Valve's terms of service and privacy policy are nothing very new, but this time they've gone a step further and introduced a new dispute resolution process. Arbitration and the small claims court - not class action suits - are now their preferred methods of dealing with an otherwise irresolvable customer dispute.

"On Steam," says the official announcement, "whenever a customer is unhappy with any transaction, our first goal is to resolve things as quickly as possible through the normal customer support process." When that doesn't work, arbitration - and Steam will pay the customers' costs, so long as they're "under a certain amount" - is their preferred route from now on. Valve even promises that reimbursement of costs will be provided regardless of the arbitrator's decision, so long as the claim wasn't frivolous "or the costs unreasonable." Unreasonable costs, incidentally, is why class action suits are verboten. Valve thinks they "don't provide any real benefit to users and instead impose unnecessary expense and delay."

Why go this route? Well, Valve's opened new offices in Luxembourg to satisfy its European customers, and part of this is to do with changing their terms for Europe. Valve may also be looking at certain developments [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118245-EU-Court-Legalizes-Selling-Used-Digital-Games], wondering what the future may hold. Inherent in any market is the possibility of a dispute over money and refunds. Better to have a plan for when that happens, than be caught with your pants down; metaphorically speaking, or otherwise.

Source: Eurogamer [http://store.steampowered.com/news/8523/]


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felbot

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May 11, 2011
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i have said it already and ill say it again, fuck you valve, for taking away consumer rights, i will not be buying anymore games from you.
 

mad825

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Mar 28, 2010
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Uhuh, Now all they to do is to comply with the new cookies laws.
 

CaptainMarvelous

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Didnt care about Origin, dont care about this. What possible reason could you have to raise a class action suit with Valve? "I didnt get the hat I want, PAY EVERYONE MONEY" at least EA were evil BEFORE they did it.
 

Charli

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Nov 23, 2008
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I don't think they're wrong...

And honestly, in what case has Steam managed to be unequivocally responsible for outrage that demands an expensive class action lawsuit. Without any developer hand or 3rd party DRM that the creators insisted be included or a mistake that wiped out peoples money that wasn't resolved in a timely fashion.


...I do want examples, please throw them my way.


I have been through a court case in my life. Over a much heftier issue than a video game platform pissing me off or screwing up my bank details, or inconveniencing me in someway. No, this issue ruined my life. I can never recover what was lost through my experience.
So when I see whiners wasting 70 times more money in trivial 'inconvenienced' lawsuits than was spent on my life shattering experiences I die a bit inside.

This provides a good option for your average 'outraged customer', who wants to go the extra mile I guess.
 

mattaui

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Oct 16, 2008
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So now Valve has an arbitration clause like all companies everywhere. I haven't seen an agreement that didn't include an arbitration clause in some time. This is nothing new.
 

Toasty Virus

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Dec 2, 2009
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"HERP TAKE THIS VALVE FANBOYS DURP"

Nope. Don't care. Didn't care about it when EA did it, doesn't concern me in the slightest.
CaptainMarvelous said:
Didnt care about Origin, dont care about this. What possible reason could you have to raise a class action suit with Valve? "I didnt get the hat I want, PAY EVERYONE MONEY" at least EA were evil BEFORE they did it.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
 

Eruanno

Captain Hammer
Aug 14, 2008
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So... What does this mean for the less intelligent ones here? You're not allowed to sue Valve's pants off when they delay a release date?
 

TheScottishFella

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Nov 9, 2009
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UK. Don't care. Not like I want to take Valve (or EA for that matter) to court any time soon. So good for them.
 

Vivi22

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Draech said:
Now let me see the outrage. Come on!

All the people whining at Origin I want to see the outrage. Put your damm money where your mouth is.
While this trend of giving up the right to a class action suit in user agreements bothers me, I've long since gotten over being mad at the companies who use them. Instead I prefer to direct my rage at the court system that made this legal to begin with.
 

Naqel

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Nov 21, 2009
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Meh.

Sony did it cause they got burned.
EA did it cause they're dicks.
Valve dose it cause it's smart.

I mean, I would have to be really hard pressed to even consider malicious intent on Valve's side.
EA on the other hand are made of nothing but greed an malice.
 

ResonanceGames

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Feb 25, 2011
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Actually, Valve is partially right here. Video game class action lawsuits generally benefit lawyers much more than gamers, and this process will indeed be better for the individual consumer.

On the flip side, class action lawsuits are excellent for shining a flashlight onto the piles of bullshit that big publishers try to get away with. Might be a pair of sixes here.
 

subtlefuge

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May 21, 2010
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If you are a truck carrying rocks, you'll likely have a sign on the back of your truck stating that you are not liable for damages caused by items falling from your truck. This accomplishes two things: it causes preventative actions to be taken by other drivers, and it discourages drivers hit by rocks from suing. What it does not represent is a binding agreement not to sue between the driver and other motorists or an absolution of responsibility from damages.

Basically, Valve can type whatever they want in to their terms of use, and while it is a legally binding document, it does not prevent class action lawsuits from being filed in cases of large scale financial or security issues, Valve breaching contract with the users, or Valve breaking any laws in countries that they offer their service.

I'm not about to praise Valve for this, they're just covering their asses, but if you ever find yourself in a situation where you actually NEED or have a LEGITIMATE REASON to sue Valve, they aren't expecting a TOS to save them. They still have lawyers, and a legal budget specifically for that.

That said, I'm surprised they took this long to add a clause like this in. I'm not sure that I have read many TOS&PP's that don't discuss this issue. I normally don't read them unless it's a case where I don't trust the company or it represents a serious financial, time, or other resource commitment, but arbitration and class action lawsuits are pretty much standard sections of all of them.
 

Agente L

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I love how the first few posters gone "HATE STEAM NOW" obviously didn't read the article. At all.
 

Frostbite3789

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Naqel said:
Meh.

Sony did it cause they got burned.
EA did it cause they're dicks.
Valve dose it cause it's smart.

I mean, I would have to be really hard pressed to even consider malicious intent on Valve's side.
EA on the other hand are made of nothing but greed an malice.
This right here. This is the attitude that pisses me off.

"Hrrrrn yes. It's the same action, but because it's Valve c'est intelligent."
 

CaptainMarvelous

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DVS BSTrD said:
"Talking" to people in order to settle disagreements?
SUCH INNOVATION!
CaptainMarvelous said:
Didnt care about Origin, dont care about this. What possible reason could you have to raise a class action suit with Valve? "I didnt get the hat I want, PAY EVERYONE MONEY" at least EA were evil BEFORE they did it.
You can't say Valve doesn't know how to use their heads.
Of course, where else could they store their hats.
 

Worgen

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Apr 1, 2009
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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Ugh dammit, this is one of the reasons I stopped using my xbox since ms threw in this bullshit. When the hell is this sorta thing really gonna see a court day? I'm gonna keep using steam (got like 300 games on it, not letting those just vanish) but I'm not sure Ill buy much on it anymore since gog has started having newer games show up and they don't have any of this bs.
 

getoffmycloud

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Agente L said:
I love how the first few posters gone "HATE STEAM NOW" obviously didn't read the article. At all.
The reason they are saying it is because Sony, EA and Microsoft got loads of hate for doing this and they are just trying to bait the Valve fanboys on this site to say something bad about Steam.
 

Lunar Templar

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Sep 20, 2009
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*shrugs* hard pressed to bothered about this the way i was when heard about EA's.

which is the major difference, EA has a shit rep built on greed and disdain for their customers, so it looks like yet another dick move from a group known for dick moves

Valve has at least had the good graces to, at worst pretend they care enough to foster a lot of good will with their consumer base, so this doesn't look even half as bad as EA's
Draech said:
*points up*
won't happen and the above is why
 

Vivi22

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subtlefuge said:
Basically, Valve can type whatever they want in to their terms of use, and while it is a legally binding document, it does not prevent class action lawsuits from being filed in cases of large scale financial or security issues, Valve breaching contract with the users, or Valve breaking any laws in countries that they offer their service.
Worgen said:
When the hell is this sorta thing really gonna see a court day?
I'll try and kill two birds with one stone here, but I'm 99% sure it already did get tested in court in a case involving another company and courts upheld it which is why other companies began to follow suit. So you could try to file a class action suit in the US, but the courts will simply prevent it from ever happening because this stuff is entirely legal now. I don't know if any other countries have had this sort of clause tested in their court systems though.