Valve: Xbox Live Rules are a "Train Wreck"

[ecoho]

i balme them both for different reasons.
valve- ok guys just fix the dam bug for your fans not that big of an issue in the long run.

MS- ugh come on guys it seems since bill left none of you have any brains(no wise cracks please) suck it up get a deal with steam like the PS3 did and youll make money still.

Now this is comeing from someone who never liked TF2 and i know that might make me a bit ignorent to what might need fixing but it also means im not baised to ether party (love my 360 and would fight to keep my portal I beleave both parties should calm the fuck down and come to a mutual agreement.

BTW enoth with the $ in microsoft there suposed to make money like any other corperation.

 

[veloper]

Nowhewere is thre any mention of EA in this.

The console ports were published by EA (unlike the PC steam version) and a developer can never get anything past the pubisher, without their approval.

 

[GiantRedButton]

Not entirely sure, but the ps3 version wasn't made by valve, it was made by EA. I'd think that has a lot to do with it.

EA is a publisher. Valve made it.

Straight out lies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orange_Box
PlayStation 3 version

While the Windows and Xbox 360 versions of The Orange Box were developed and published by Valve, the development of the PlayStation 3 port was outsourced to Electronic Arts. In an interview with Edge magazine before the game's release, Valve co-founder Gabe Newell commented, "I think the people who have The Orange Box on the PS3 are going to be happy with their game experience. We've done the PC and 360 versions here and EA has a team doing the PS3 version ? and they'll make the PS3 version a good product; EA got the job done in putting a lot of people with PS3 experience on the project. But I think it's harder to get it to the same standard as the 360 and PC versions". Despite this, he noted that Valve will probably handle PlayStation 3 versions of its products in the future.[49]

In a preview of The Orange Box in November 2007, 1UP.com revealed numerous problems with the late beta build of EA's PlayStation 3 version of The Orange Box, citing pervasive frame rate issues which, they claimed, "at best merely hinder gameplay and at worst make the experience downright unplayable."[50] IGN's Hilary Goldstein disagreed, writing that although EA "is one of the worst offenders when it comes to porting games to the PS3," the frame rate issues were not bad enough "to make me throw my controller in disgust."[51]

On January 3, 2008, IGN reported that Valve employees had created a thread on Valve's website forums for players to list the problems they had encountered and to suggest fixes,[52] which caused speculation that a patch was being planned to address the issues in the PlayStation 3 version, such as the frame rate issues, the connection problems in Team Fortress 2, and the slow loading times in Portal. A patch for the PlayStation 3 version was later released in North America on March 19, 2008 and Europe a short while after that; however, it made no mention of fixing frame rate issues or slow loading times.[53]

The PlayStation 3 version of the game also lacks autosave; the player is instead afforded the ability to quicksave at any time by holding the 'Start' button and is urged to do so at points in the games where checkpoints exist on other formats.

 

[Robert Houston]

I've gotta say it was a tad nieve of valve just going on the assumption that things would change. Why would Microsoft change their policy just because one guy has called it a train wreck? They seem to be raking in the cash fine, and thats all they really care about in the end.

 

[Sebenko]

Seems to me Valve need to learn how to operate in an environment that isn't Steam.

Exactly.

Not really. They're raking it in right now. They don't need to.

It's like telling a billionaire he needs to learn how to operate in a poverty-stricken African village (not that the 360 is starving and full of aids, but my point still stands)

 

[Danzaivar]

People buy Valve games and don't get them for PC? o_o

 

[Outright Villainy]

People buy Valve games and don't get them for PC? o_o

[small]I'm getting Portal 2 for ps3...[/small]

But that's because I want the split screen co-op.

 

[Danzaivar]

People buy Valve games and don't get them for PC? o_o

[small]I'm getting Portal 2 for ps3...[/small]

But that's because I want the split screen co-op.

I...I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.

 

[Outright Villainy]

People buy Valve games and don't get them for PC? o_o

[small]I'm getting Portal 2 for ps3...[/small]

But that's because I want the split screen co-op.

I...I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.

Bloody "friends". Some friends they are, won't learn how to use a mouse..
[small]Or buy a bloody proper pc...[/small]
[sub]Set up an unnessecary Lan connection...[/sub]

 

[tigermilk]

'The Orange Box' is on my to buy list originally for the 360. Having read this am I better off getting it on the PS3 or 360 or are they pretty much the same?

This isn't flaming/fanboyism but if anyone can offer any advice it would be much appreciatted.

 

[Silver Patriot]

I agree that Microsoft needs to loosen on their rules a bit... but I don't get it.

Valve own a massively used PC game platform plus loads of highly rated titles that millions of people have bought and played regularly...

Yet they won't shell out for one god damn update?

I mean yeah... the rules are strict and bad and blah de blah. But can't they take a small wad of money from the Valve cash pile and throw out an update? I mean really are they that stuck up about this?

There's no benefit for doing it. On PC, the game helps promote Steam. On the 360? They're not making any real money off it.

I love, on another note, how Uber Entertainment is giving us free DLC for Monday Night Combat, but Valve "can't." It's not even a big dev/pub like Rockstar, but we're getting our first DLC pack free.

Now I am really confused. At least with Bungie you could say that Microsoft owes them. I am starting to think that what Kermi said might be more accurate. That this is less about Xbox Lives's rules being impossible and more about Valve being unwilling to operate in that environment.

 

[Lt. Vinciti]

MS just wants to control everything, monitor every details - Its a real shame, as at end of the day, it we who lose ouit

EVERYTHING SHOULD BE NEAT AND TIDY FOR THE FUHRER!

also...Valve...L4DL4D2PS3?

 

[Something Amyss]

There's no benefit other than fixing a game they originally broke.

Yeah they don't get any money off it but why should they? They released buggy console ports, they should cough up to fix them.

Errr...Did I really need to clarify there was no benefit for them?

They get no money and it doesn't further them any, really. I don't think they care if it benefits the end user, Microsoft, the starving children in Africa, or Colonel Sanders.

Now I am really confused. At least with Bungie you could say that Microsoft owes them. I am starting to think that what Kermi said might be more accurate. That this is less about Xbox Lives's rules being impossible and more about Valve being unwilling to operate in that environment.

You should be confused, given how long the "Microsoft's evil policies prevented updates" thing has gone on. Uber's not even the first, merely the most recent. It ranges from exceptionally minor to full updates, but most of it's minor. Koei released several bonus attires for Dynasty Warriors 6 Empires, of the top of my head.

I think the reason it's so readily accepted that Valve "can't" do anything is because people already hate Microsoft as an evil corporate entity.

 

[TelHybrid]

'The Orange Box' is on my to buy list originally for the 360. Having read this am I better off getting it on the PS3 or 360 or are they pretty much the same?

This isn't flaming/fanboyism but if anyone can offer any advice it would be much appreciatted.

If you have a PC that can handle it, then I recommend that version. Team Fortress 2 is only any good on PC to be honest.

If not, the 360 version is the next best option. The port was done by Valve themselves, and was a pretty ok port. The PS3 version apparently was done half assed by EA, and had some problems, but I'm just going from what I've read/heard.

 

[Alandoril]

I agree that Microsoft needs to loosen on their rules a bit... but I don't get it.

Valve own a massively used PC game platform plus loads of highly rated titles that millions of people have bought and played regularly...

Yet they won't shell out for one god damn update?

I mean yeah... the rules are strict and bad and blah de blah. But can't they take a small wad of money from the Valve cash pile and throw out an update? I mean really are they that stuck up about this?

Yes, yes they are.

 

[tigermilk]

'The Orange Box' is on my to buy list originally for the 360. Having read this am I better off getting it on the PS3 or 360 or are they pretty much the same?

This isn't flaming/fanboyism but if anyone can offer any advice it would be much appreciatted.

If you have a PC that can handle it, then I recommend that version. Team Fortress 2 is only any good on PC to be honest.

If not, the 360 version is the next best option. The port was done by Valve themselves, and was a pretty ok port. The PS3 version apparently was done half assed by EA, and had some problems, but I'm just going from what I've read/heard.

Thanks for the advice. PC version is out of the question as my PC is a netbook. Looks like it is the 360 version for me. I knew the PS3 version of TF2 had problems in the early days (according to reviews from Metacritic), but even if they have been resolved it sounds like the 360 version for me. Even if TF2 isn't up to much on the 360 I guess there is more than enough content in the Orange Box to make it a worthwhile purchase, and it ensures I don't inadvertently support EA.

 

[Iscin]

I've always had a strong belief in the shear awful way Microsoft conducts its Xbox Live service. Sure most people don't care and will continue to use it, but the system is still critically flawed. This is without even pointing out the fact that a lot of folk PAY for the service anyway (gold) and that should surely cover any updates, including free DLCs, that successful game developers want to launch.

Ugh, all the consoles have something that holds them back, at least PC gaming is coming back a little now.

 

[hyperdrachen]

I agree about a lot of what they say. Despite being a good service for the ned user, it's just hell to work around XBox Live.

I was pretty happy with the live service in the earlier days of the 360, but the more ads they slap on my dashboard and the more devs I hear complain about the mire that is working with xbox live, the less I like it.

Yeah the Xbox Live rules kinda suck. More than I thought I guess if they're the specific reason Valve can't update TF 2.

There's no reason Valve can't update TF2 on the 360. They would just need to follow Microsoft's rules (because you know, it's Microsoft's platform). As far as I know the rules aren't that restrictive, just things like requiring certification for the update so that it doesn't negatively affect the console or LIVE in any way.

So as far as I can tell the issue Valve is having is that they want their DLC to just be updates. However Microsoft won't allow them to do this, as Xbox LIVE requires people to download all updates for a game when they play it while connected to LIVE. They don't want Valve's giant updates to be required because not all 360 users have hard drives and the internal memory isn't sufficient for anything larger than code modifications.

So for Valve to release all the PC TF2 content on the 360 they would have to create one or more game updates which are required and release the various maps and character changes as DLC. Depending on how many packages of DLC they create they could have problems with overly dividing the game's community, they certainly would have run into problems if they released concurrent with the PC updates.

So in my interpretation of events it's entirely Valve's fault up to this point. That's a controversial way of looking at things because of the next complication. Microsoft would probably have a fee for hosting the content on the Xbox LIVE servers. In order to make this arrangement affordable Valve would probably have to charge for the DLC, which is something they are firmly against. Valve probably could offer it for free if they hosted the content on their own servers but Xbox LIVE rules prevent that from happening.

One other rule Microsoft has is that content that can give achievement points must have a price tag. There are only a few exceptions. However I'm sure this wouldn't really be a problem, Valve could just take out the achievements.

Regardless, I see the lack of TF2 DLC or updates on the Xbox 360 being mostly the fault Valve's aloof attitude and refusal to compromise. The rules are there for a reason, policy disagreements between a privately owned company with a couple hundred employees and an $86 billion corporation don't make the rules a "train wreck."

I don't see how free updates are going to do a whole lot of community dividing. Unless maybe it was a class rebalance but typically those sorts of things are required updates on Live as well. The problems cited with hardrive space have one flaw, and one uncredited source. First of all Team Fortress with all updates(I own it on the PC) is about 9.5gigs.

I think it's fairly safe to say that outside people actually working in the industry, one likely isn't qualified to dispute valves statement as to it being a trainwreck. Valve has produced piles of free updates for team fortress 2. After dumping all that time into content to please your installed customer base, do you really think it's some small nigling detail that valve refuses to budge on standing between the console owners and the updates. What this likely breaks down to is Microsoft would incur cost in hosting the content on the Live servers, and wants somone to pick up that cost. Well I think my gold membeship should cover it. I like my xbox, and I've been a singer of it's virtues since the original xbox. However I am not going to make excuses for why a company I'm paying $50/yr(to say nothing of the upcoming pricehike) for the "privilage" of playing muliplayer, can't make a more friendly service to deliver updated content.

 

[LitleWaffle]

I mean yeah... the rules are strict and bad and blah de blah. But can't they take a small wad of money from the Valve cash pile and throw out an update? I mean really are they that stuck up about this?

I'm not sure about this, as I don't have it for the Xbox, but I remember hearing somewhere that some updates were available, just as DLC.

Forgive me if I'm wrong

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

I'm not sure about this, as I don't have it for the Xbox, but I remember hearing somewhere that some updates were available, just as DLC.

Forgive me if I'm wrong

Nah they're not.

And by update I mean patch.

Bug fixes and the like.