Vegetarianism

[Lord Beautiful]

I think that vegetarianism for the sake of health or just not liking the taste of meat is just fine, but moral vegetarianism is purely hypocritical. Unless you grow your own plants with your own soil (none of the store-bought soil and growth enhancement) and water, you're being very hypocritical. In the process of gathering vegetables to sell at markets and such, rodents are killed all the time. They get run over by the tractors that harvest the very vegetables you buy.

Seriously, I respect a moral vegetarian who grows his own stuff, because that makes him a man of his word. A moral vegetarian who buys vegetables at a supermarket is either ignorant of the death of animals in the process of harvesting vegetables or doesn't feel that animals dying is important enough to make your own garden.

Personally, I eat meat. Sure, I think about the animals, how they are raised to be slaughtered so that we may consume them, but then I realize that is the circle of life. Bears eat fish, wolves eat rabbits and such, dinosaurs ate other dinosaurs, and we eat cows. It's just what we animals do. It doesn't make us evil. It makes us omnivores.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

1) Beans and broccoli. Loaded with protein.

2) Other people aren't responsible for your actions.

(I'm not vegetarian, by the way.)

It's much easier to get protein from meat than eating beans forever. I know there's a lot of vegetables with protein, but it's not the same as meat.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

I think that vegetarianism for the sake of health or just not liking the taste of meat is just fine, but moral vegetarianism is purely hypocritical.

You know that Maddox is satire, right? There's an order of magnitude between torturing billions of animals from birth and inadvertantly crushing a few thousand voles. (Lifetime of suffering, versus a lifetime of freedom with a near instant death.) Especially considering that we eat meat for pleasure, not necessity.

If I can save ten people, but one person's going to die anyway regardless of my actions, does that mean I should let eleven people die?

I don't think moral vegetarianism is indefensible.

1) Beans and broccoli. Loaded with protein.

2) Other people aren't responsible for your actions.

(I'm not vegetarian, by the way.)

It's much easier to get protein from meat than eating beans forever. I know there's a lot of vegetables with protein, but it's not the same as meat.

Explain how it's easier. If you eat your dark greens and your fibers, you're getting what you need. That doesn't seem like such a daunting task.

It's even cheaper. http://lifehacker.com/5271178/

 

[crepesack]

taking fish from the wild.
The fish in the wild were out there to reproduce and become more fish, by taking them are you not completely defeating the purpose? Fish are raised for food true. But by taking them inevitably you are changing their purpose to food. Don't call it vegetarianism at least you are a piscavore. And btw i think vegetarianism is stupid.

Vegetarianism unless it is for health or religious reasons is too me idiotic and very pompous. It tells me that you think you are better than everyone around you. Which is in itself flawed. Vegetarians without purpose think because we are human makes us inscrutable and makes us some how above logic. Wrong. We are to survive our development may be different but in the end our will are that of animals.

 

[LewsTherin]

I will not eat any other type of meat due to them being raised to die.

Have you ever thought of trying game [http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-game-meat.htm] meats [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_(food)]?

I have no idea where I would buy something like that.

You get yourself one of

Spoiler: these

and go kill them yourself.

 

[Grassassassin]

I'm a meatatarian.

 

[Lord Beautiful]

You know that Maddox is satire, right? There's an order of magnitude between torturing billions of animals from birth and inadvertantly crushing a few thousand voles. (Lifetime of suffering, versus a lifetime of freedom with a near instant death.) Especially considering that we eat meat for pleasure, not necessity.

In my entire life living in the south around farms and such, I don't believe I've seen cows being cut open and skinned alive, or anything else that seems to live up to the connotation of the word "torture." The worst I've seen is the occasional cattle prod.

If I can save ten people, but one person's going to die anyway regardless of my actions, does that mean I should let eleven people die?

We're talking about animals, not people.

I don't think moral vegetarianism is indefensible.

Neither do I. I'd just like it if they acknowledged that animals do indeed die from the gathering of vegetables by commercial farms.

 

[Chartic]

You get yourself one of

Spoiler: these

and go kill them yourself.[/quote]

I will not eat any other type of meat due to them being raised to die.

Have you ever thought of trying game [http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-game-meat.htm] meats [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_(food)]?

I have no idea where I would buy something like that.

You get yourself one of

Spoiler: these

and go kill them yourself.

Why are you a jerk for no apparent reason?

 

[Datalord]

TO ALL THE VEGETARIANS,

if you are a vegetarian because of a health choice or personal preference, good for you,

if you are a vegetarian because you don't want to eat something that was raised to die, you are a hypocrite, because farmed plants are also raised to die,

if you try to get other people to convert to a vegetarian diet, the global population currently exceeds the food being produced, and in several decades famine will devastate the world, you think we should eliminate a source of food because it has a face? you make me want to go eat three animals for every one animal you didn't, except that would contribute to famine almost as badly

 

[MRMIdAS2k]

I have recently started practicing vegetarianism. I still eat fish but will not eat any other type of meat due to them being raised to die. I would like to know if anyone has any advice for me or any warnings that my lifestyle of not eating much meat could have on me.

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware fish were vegetables.

Sheep are raised for wool too, so they're fine too.
Chickens are raised for eggsm so thats also cool.
Cows are raised for Leather Jackets and Milk as well, so that's fine.

if anything, fish aren't raised to die, but thats the only think they're good for once caught.

At least my foods dead.

MIdAS

 

[Chartic]

TO ALL THE VEGETARIANS,

if you are a vegetarian because of a health choice or personal preference, good for you,

if you are a vegetarian because you don't want to eat something that was raised to die, you are a hypocrite, because farmed plants are also raised to die,

if you try to get other people to convert to a vegetarian diet, the global population currently exceeds the food being produced, and in several decades famine will devastate the world, you think we should eliminate a source of food because it has a face? you make me want to go eat three animals for every one animal you didn't, except that would contribute to famine almost as badly

Frankly I find it strange that you are comparing plants to animals. If you are willing to say that then, if you're willing to eat meat why not become a cannibal?

I don't care if other people eat meat and won't try to change what you do, but in return don't try to do it to me.

Oh and Farming Plants produces a lot less waste than raising animals. I'm sure the people who have to live near pig farms would prefer living near a place that only farms vegetables.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

You know that Maddox is satire, right? There's an order of magnitude between torturing billions of animals from birth and inadvertantly crushing a few thousand voles. (Lifetime of suffering, versus a lifetime of freedom with a near instant death.) Especially considering that we eat meat for pleasure, not necessity.

1) In my entire life living in the south around farms and such, I don't believe I've seen cows being cut open and skinned alive, or anything else that seems to live up to the connotation of the word "torture." The worst I've seen is the occasional cattle prod.

If I can save ten people, but one person's going to die anyway regardless of my actions, does that mean I should let eleven people die?

2) We're talking about animals, not people.

I don't think moral vegetarianism is indefensible.

3) Neither do I. I'd just like it if they acknowledged that animals do indeed die from the gathering of vegetables by commercial farms.

1) Ever see a battery farm?
http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/egg-battery.html
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_battery_-_caged_chicken
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/southwest/series6/chicken_run_battery_hens_free_range.shtml
We're talking about real agribusiness farms, not your uncle's ranch.

2) Doesn't matter. If you argue that letting a relatively small number of field mice getting killed by grain combines is bad, then the way we treat chickens is much, much worse. I'm not saying that animals are people - I'm saying the order of magnitude and the way we treat the animals is an important distinction.

3) And I quote: "I think that vegetarianism for the sake of health or just not liking the taste of meat is just fine, but moral vegetarianism is purely hypocritical." I disagree.

 

[yeah_so_no]

Personally, I find it easy to overlook the way the animals are treated because meat is delicious. Of course I completely respect you if you choose not to eat it. I mean no offense from this, but someone sent me this picture the other day and I thought it was funny.

Spoiler

That picture is AWESOME, and props to the person who put up the "Carnivore?" flier.

 

[Chartic]

I have recently started practicing vegetarianism. I still eat fish but will not eat any other type of meat due to them being raised to die. I would like to know if anyone has any advice for me or any warnings that my lifestyle of not eating much meat could have on me.

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware fish were vegetables.

Sheep are raised for wool too, so they're fine too.
Chickens are raised for eggsm so thats also cool.
Cows are raised for Leather Jackets and Milk as well, so that's fine.

if anything, fish aren't raised to die, but thats the only think they're good for once caught.

At least my foods dead.

MIdAS

I don't even know where to begin. I don't remember many sheep dying from being sheared, chickens dying from laying eggs, or cows dying from being milked. This is also a reason I don't wear leather.

My food is dead too. Just because they are plants doesn't mean they live forever when they are picked.

As I have said before, I eat fish because they are not raised to die.

I would probably not eat the above mentioned foods like milk and eggs if I knew that would not have a significant impact on my health and if I wanted to be an anal vegan.

 

[Chartic]

Personally, I find it easy to overlook the way the animals are treated because meat is delicious. Of course I completely respect you if you choose not to eat it. I mean no offense from this, but someone sent me this picture the other day and I thought it was funny.

Spoiler

That picture is AWESOME, and props to the person who put up the "Carnivore?" flier.

oh nice

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

I will not eat any other type of meat due to them being raised to die.

Have you ever thought of trying game [http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-game-meat.htm] meats [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_(food)]?

I have no idea where I would buy something like that.

You get yourself one of

Spoiler: these

and go kill them yourself.

Why are you a jerk for no apparent reason?

That's actually a viable and somewhat sustainable option. Deer populations get too big - because their natural predators have become scarce - and if their numbers aren't controlled, they grow too large for their food supply and die out. Hunting's actually encouraged.

But it's not like you have to go out and shoot them if you don't want to. Nobody's forcing you to hunt for meat. It's just, actually, not that bad a thing to do.

 

[Lord Beautiful]

1) Ever see a battery farm?
http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/egg-battery.html
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_battery_-_caged_chicken
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/southwest/series6/chicken_run_battery_hens_free_range.shtml
We're talking about real agribusiness farms, not your uncle's ranch.

2) Doesn't matter. If you argue that letting a relatively small number of field mice getting killed by grain combines is bad, then the way we treat chickens is much, much worse. I'm not saying that animals are people - I'm saying the order of magnitude and the way we treat the animals is an important distinction.

3) And I quote: "I think that vegetarianism for the sake of health or just not liking the taste of meat is just fine, but moral vegetarianism is purely hypocritical." I disagree.

1) I'm loading up episodes of Kenshin at the moment (shocker, I know), so I'd rather not open up even more windows than I already have. I'm also aware that there are cases of animal cruelty in agriculture, but I can't help but feel that these cases don't compose the happenings of the vast majority of the industry. And none of my family have ranches. I'm talking about pretty decent cattle farms that make some pretty decent money. Hell, at the moment, I'm living next to one.

2) I'm arguing against the extreme moral vegetarian who believes that all animal lives are sacred and that we are evil for killing them, that all meat-eaters should be ashamed of themselves for being indirectly responsible for the deaths of animals when they are as well.

3) The hypocritical part comes in where they don't acknowledge the deaths of animals involved in producing the vegetables they eat. If they acknowledge that fact and adjust their arguments accordingly, I don't consider them hypocrites. From that point, I consider them different than myself, and not much more. I suppose the best way to describe it in my original post would be to say "extreme moral vegetarians" as opposed to "moral vegetarians." I tend to speak in extremes until someone feels like finding out the specifics of how I feel on the matters at hand.

 

[Chartic]

I will not eat any other type of meat due to them being raised to die.

Have you ever thought of trying game [http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-game-meat.htm] meats [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_(food)]?

I have no idea where I would buy something like that.

You get yourself one of

Spoiler: these

and go kill them yourself.

Why are you a jerk for no apparent reason?

That's actually a viable and somewhat sustainable option. Deer populations get too big - because their natural predators have become scarce - and if their numbers aren't controlled, they grow too large for their food supply and die out. Hunting's actually encouraged.

But it's not like you have to go out and shoot them if you don't want to. Nobody's forcing you to hunt for meat. It's just, actually, not that bad a thing to do.

Sorry I misread this as Then go kill yourself , sorry for calling that one guy a jerk.

 

[Datalord]

TO ALL THE VEGETARIANS,

if you are a vegetarian because of a health choice or personal preference, good for you,

if you are a vegetarian because you don't want to eat something that was raised to die, you are a hypocrite, because farmed plants are also raised to die,

if you try to get other people to convert to a vegetarian diet, the global population currently exceeds the food being produced, and in several decades famine will devastate the world, you think we should eliminate a source of food because it has a face? you make me want to go eat three animals for every one animal you didn't, except that would contribute to famine almost as badly

Frankly I find it strange that you are comparing plants to animals. If you are willing to say that then, if you're willing to eat meat why not become a cannibal?

I don't care if other people eat meat and won't try to change what you do, but in return don't try to do it to me.

Oh and Farming Plants produces a lot less waste than raising animals. I'm sure the people who have to live near pig farms would prefer living near a place that only farms vegetables.

If i tried to change your lifestyle, i would be as big of a hypocrite as PETA, did you read the first sentence? I just don't like preachy vegetarians acting like they are better than the unenlightening omnivores.

The difference between eating meat and being a cannibal is that being a cannibal is illegal in my community, but i like how you just assume that i am not a cannibal. You never know, i could be the guy that really does the stuff mentioned in dead baby jokes. And the other difference is that i have yet to meat a cow or pig that could theoretically have a job in society other that producing food or being in a performance.

And as someone who has lived ONLY in rural areas for the bast 10 years, i can truthfully say that living next to a pig farm is not that bad, and it is not any worse than living next to a corn farm or in Iowa (corn farm joke), and running a farm with both a large amount of livestock AND and large amount of land dedicated to crops actually has less waste than a farm dedicated to either meat or grain, because the parts of a plant that cannot be prepared and sold can be ground up and used as animal feed, and animal waste can be used as low grade fertilizer.

 

[Anarchy In Detroit]

Vegetarianism is pointless.

We eat what we eat. One day we'll run out or run low or ruin the land and people will die. The population will adjust. Mother nature just handles shit like this and we have no choice in the matter beyond prolonging the inevitable.

Cold hard fact of life. Pass the bacon plz.

That being said, I don't hate vegetarians unless they're the preachy asshole kind.