Venezuela

[thebobmaster]

Over 90 people died in the attack. But i assume those don't matter, because only US citizens are real people, right ? That Venezuelan lives are worthless has been obvious since the series of events of blowing fisherman to bits for fun.

I really hope the next US military action is a mass failure with hundreds of US casualties. That might hopefully finally get the US to reconsider.

 

[Satinavian]

Well, it would obviously even better if no one dies because the US stops on its own. But that won't happen.

 

[thebobmaster]

Sorry, didn't mean that as a slam against your point. More the mindset Gergar seems to have. That's the problem with just posting a snarky image.

 

[Satinavian]

The thing that is different about the US is that we can criticize anything and everything without being in a jail cell unlike gestures at most of BRICs, and BRIC's adjacent countries.

The US is a nation where unmarked militarized "police" forces can just take anyone on the street and vanish them without trial to some oversea prison. The US is a nation that just "lost" hundreds of imprisoned people in "Alligator-Alcatraz". They are just gone - no one knows where they ended up or whether they are still alive. The US is a nation where various media had to pay the president many millions because he didn't like the way they reported on him. The US is a nation that considers people who ctitizice to much to be Antifa-Terrorists and has plans in work to revoke citicenship for such an offense (admittedly, it might not come to this). The US is a nation that revoked student Visa just for any opinion that was seen as supportive to Palestine. The US is a nation that goes through your social media on entry and revokes your Visa if Customs find unflattering posts about Trump-

Sure, BRICS are on average worse. But not nearly as much as you might think. The current US would fit in there quite well.

That was the UK, what the US wants is free trade.

Maybe once. in a distant past.

The US has sabotaged the WTO and its conflict resolution mechanics every chance it got. Because "might makes right" works out better for the strongest superpower in the world. The US is the nation with by far the most reckless tariffs in the whole world, the opposite of a free trade champion. The US regularly breaks treaties it signed. The US tries its best to force all trade partners into rather unequal bilateral deals and tries to avoid any organisation where it can't throw its might around. The US tries to restrict the trade their trade partners do with third countries. The US tries to get exclusive rights to foreign natural ressources.

It is focused on Greenland because of mineals, and on Venezuela because on oil. Before the operation Trump publicly announced that Venezuelas land and oil should belong to the US. After the operation he announced, that the US would take control of Venezuela and endlessly talked about US companies extracting its oil. Meanwhile he also threatened the interim president to do as he wants or get a worse fate than Madura and told the person the US claims should have been rightful president instead of Madura a "no".

That is not introducing democracy and freeing Venezuelans. Because free Venezuelans would want the oil revenue for themself, there is no US profit to be had. No, what the US attemps to do is just establishing a colony and stripping it bare. They might backtrack if it turns out they would need to deploy troops there to make it happen, but the intentions are more than clear.

 

[tstorm823]

The US is a nation where unmarked militarized "police" forces can just take anyone on the street and vanish them without trial to some oversea prison.

... provided there is a deportation order against them and they are refusing to leave the country.

The US is a nation that just "lost" hundreds of imprisoned people in "Alligator-Alcatraz". They are just gone - no one knows where they ended up or whether they are still alive.

There was some confusion in the data for that facility because it was run by Florida on behalf of ICE, so ICE had some records and the State government had others, and neither seemed to have all of them centralized making it difficult to track people down. That is a database management error that made things difficult, doubly so as they tried to empty the facility in the face of legal challenges. There has been no reason to believe a single death is being covered up here, just normal failures of the government bureaucracy at work.

The US is a nation where various media had to pay the president many millions because he didn't like the way they reported on him.

You mean because they lied, knowingly and repeatedly, in their reporting. And let's not pretend it's innocent and ignorant, these are seasoned journalists at enormous companies who make informed business decisions: they decided long ago that the money made by lying about Trump (to people like you) was worth the risk of lawsuit.

The US is a nation that considers people who ctitizice to much to be Antifa-Terrorists and has plans in work to revoke citicenship for such an offense (admittedly, it might not come to this).

It's not "considers", people call themselves Antifa. When you have people across the country stylizing themselves after 1930s communist militias that wanted the overthrow of their Republic going to major cities and committing street violence and calling for the overthrow of our Republic, that's not "considers" from anybody else, they decided to be terrorists. It's a low level, petty sort of terrorism, but it's still acts of violence committed against the general public toward the aim of political upheaval.

The US is a nation that revoked student Visa just for any opinion that was seen as supportive to Palestine.

He was acting as the lead negotiator for a group that was holding an entire academic building hostage. They called themselves an occupation, the police had to break in and arrest them to get the building reopened. Additionally, he had finished his studies in December, and was no longer a full-time student, making his student visa invalid anyway.

The US is a nation that goes through your social media on entry and revokes your Visa if Customs find unflattering posts about Trump-

A man told customs that he was a drug user and was denied entry to the US. He then told reporters that it was because of a JD Vance meme on his phone. The internet ran with the latter, because the internet is dumb.

You didn't manage to get true story in your list. Not a single one.

 

[Silvanus]

... provided there is a deportation order against them and they are refusing to leave the country.

"Refused to leave the country" when no notice had been given that they actually had to leave the country, and they had been given express permission to be there.

You didn't manage to get true story in your list. Not a single one.

You recycle these lazy falsehoods every time this comes up. Up to and including the insistence that they must be "criminals" despite the absense of any such legal finding.

 

[dreng3]

The thing that is different about the US is that we can criticize anything and everything without being in a jail cell unlike gestures at most of BRICs, and BRIC's adjacent countries.

So funny that you should say that.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/donal...peaking-out-against-maduro-venezuela-capture/

Seems the US has its own share of goons willing to inimidate and harras people speaking their minds.

 

[BrawlMan]

So funny that you should say that.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/donal...peaking-out-against-maduro-venezuela-capture/

Seems the US has its own share of goons willing to inimidate and harras people speaking their minds.

Trump and is punk ass bitches can never handle the truth. This is what happens when you live in a fascist state, and let it happen "neutrals" and "true patriots". This violates several rights and genuine free speech.

 

[Chimpzy]

Been a while since I've seen something Quisling this hard.

 

[Hades]

Been a while since I've seen something Quisling this hard.

Well Trump is too much of a petty biitch. Still salty she won the Nobel peace prize despite him being too ethically challenged to ever win one. Had it not been her it would have been someone else.

 

[Hades]

The thing that is different about the US is that we can criticize anything and everything without being in a jail cell unlike gestures at most of BRICs, and BRIC's adjacent countries.

I am not eager to see any war, I am eager to see an end to dictatorships which this one of that has been ended.

Sure but for how long? People are already getting fired for not praising the great leader enough.

 

[Agema]

Been a while since I've seen something Quisling this hard.

Yep: that's exactly what I expect from the ambitious, entitled elites. Their country is really just something they can sell out so they can be a big fish.

Although maybe that's unfair. Potentially, she says she'll sell everything to the USA, gets installed, and simply declines to do what she promised. Chances are she'd get away with it.

 

[Hades]

So if Maduro can be kidnapped just because America doesn’t like him, does that mean European agents can arrest that subhuman Miller the moment there’s a real American government again? Seeing as he’s advocating for Danish lands to be invaded and the citizens of Greenland to be subjugated by a fascist regime?

 

[Casual Shinji]

So if Maduro can be kidnapped just because America doesn’t like him, does that mean European agents can arrest that subhuman Miller the moment there’s a real American government again? Seeing as he’s advocating for Danish lands to be invaded and the citizens of Greenland to be subjugated by a fascist regime?

'If America does it, it's NOT illegal.'

 

[Chimpzy]

So if Maduro can be kidnapped just because America doesn’t like him, does that mean European agents can arrest that subhuman Miller the moment there’s a real American government again? Seeing as he’s advocating for Danish lands to be invaded and the citizens of Greenland to be subjugated by a fascist regime?

Lol, no. Suppose the Dems get back in power, get a trifecta, it'll be all talk of reaching across the aisle and letting the country heal. Maybe some of the lower peons will get thrown under the bus, but the top, the likes of Miller or Rubio, will not suffer any consequences, no matter what they do. And suppose European agents do kidnap Miller, drag him before the ICC or something, then that Dem president will instantly invoke ASPA and the US will invade your country to rescue Miller.

 

[Gergar12]

You mean all of the people that Trump likes, is friends with, and whose ideologies he loves?

Yeah, we're not getting rid of them.

What Trump wants most of all in his tiny putrid little heart is to be a dictator.

And what the fuck are you talking about regarding the 90s? There were absolutely dictatorships in the 90s, they aren't a new thing. Hell, Kim was a dictator in the 90s.

The difference between say Saudi Arabia and Iran is Saudi Arabia is torching their economy, and is liberalizing. ALso what I meant is in the 1990s if the US want to resolve a conflict with dictators they could like in Kosovo. If we topple the CPC, and Putin we can do that if the dictator becomes a threat to the global community, harms their own people, and is a threat to US interests.

 

[Gergar12]

I'm going to stop this one right here. Not because you aren't wrong (you are right), nor do I not want to continue this (I do), but this reply will be short, curt and to the point. I mean you, in particular, no ill will for this curtness, since, you are right but I will say two things, the first of which is that I will elaborate on the second point at a later point of my choosing, which is thus (and not entirely aimed at you, hence the apology, 'likes!' and promise of actual picking up of this later because...)

*I need to not be banned for this post so while not formatted as such please let it be read by your internal monolog as a low, angry shout uttered through clenched teeth*

"wow, I never had thought of that how bizarre we might have to put you under guard somewhere secret since the guy in the white house may get word that there may be a playoff for the fifa world piss off cup and he might get jealous enough to send the 5th fleet and an entire meu to get you like he did maduro. Now, before you fend them all off successfully with your cheap off the counter drone fleet, can you please explain to me how to escape this chinese finger trap? the concept of "come together good, pull apart bad" is too large a concept to fit into my equally 3yr old mind and I need help please before you are made emperor of mankind of the imperium of man and are unreachable"

I will no longer be replying to you on any matter even remotely related to military affairs, ever, and please gerg do NOT reply to this post. While I have no members of this forum on mute and will continue to do so, you will still be absolutely ignored.

And come down here too, Thaluikhain, because while this post wasn't entirely aimed at you...
View attachment 14127
I am quite fucking miffed, not a lot, but certainly more than a trifle. And not because of anything in this thread (see above reply to yourself) but rather that one reply you gave me in the shower thoughts thread the other night. It seems weird to bring up now, but is on topic (not the thread itself, sorry, lol) but at least this post itself in that, like the reply to gerg above so sarcastically put it...

I

Know

Obviously, everything can be broken down to be made to fit anything else. I know that the thought is weird on it's face and didn't make sense.

That was the point; it's a shower thought.

And while yes you can absolutely wonder about and question what the fuck exactly I meant or even why I care this much, I will at least answer the latter because it's why I'm so fucking mad at gerg above.

Please, do not talk down to people, certainly not so condescendingly.

Please. Everyone reading this, I'm begging you.

Because yes, while I am absolutely aware that my thought was vague, weird, and more than likely wrong, you did not, at all at the time and probably not since, thought to ponder on it more than what you personally thought and did not think to ask me for why this was so (either the thought in question or its weirdly curt nature)

And this seems weirdly personal to get hung up on in a post that has what, on the surface at least, looks like more of the same. But...look...that post (and other shower thought post like it) was structured the was it on purpose for a specific reason:

Makes you think.

Or, at least it's supposed to. Conversation itself, and, again..., the human condition itself, and it's success can be summed up as the weirdly short nonsensical statement. Because thus is how our species on the whole actually evolves, not because of some strange little things like spleens or disappearing toes or some such, because those are just the fun little things on top of the most base thing in nature, and in fact entirely predicated and being able to acheive:

Survival

Because, fuck evolution, that shit is a bonus you get, a little treat, after the fucking nightmare that is existence as a whole. It's rough. It's bloody. It's a disgusting mess and a necessary evil for all living things to need to destroy other living things. And if you can't survive, you die, end of the road, do not pass your genes and do not collect $200 millions of years down the line when you figure all of the necessary bits out to even get to the rough concept of exchange, let alone actual cold hard cash. And thus...

Consider a ship...

And this is why

I

Am

Constantly

Enraged

All the time, everywhere, at everything, all at once.

Because, yes gerg, teamwork does infact make the dream work. It's how we even got to this fuckog point at all, where we can scream at each over a fucking distance measured in hundreds of thousands of miles apart near instantaneously.

So why, then, fire rockets at each other? Fuck the ship for a moment, humanity's real closest metaphorical neighbor is that fucking finger trap, and like the cartoon episode I watched in my formative years taught me (Dexter's Laboratory), that, while yes, the finger is stupidly, and so obviously easy a solution to figure out even bickering siblings can come together, it still takes then way to fucking long to come tona conclusion so blisteringly obvious. Why? Why is that?

Imagine with me now, a sweater.

Now, this thread is starting to pop off wildly and this post is both long, and while (outwardly, at least, bare with me all the way through here now, for real though.) this post is veering wildly off topic to dangerous degrees, please follow with me a little longer now, I promise it will be worth it. I will, as one last sign of genuine trust and as a furthering of the messages I will be putting on the forum in the coming weeks I invite any interested members of this forum, the wider internet traveling population, come follow me to the shower thoughts real quick. Before we go and as actual evidence of the goodwill on offer;

Gerg, while those cheap drones are actually about as much of a genuine threat as you think they are, top brass, everywhere, already know this. Both in the sense that everyone and their mothers dog wants that sweet cheap suicide drone swarm, they also have had to contend with similar things for far, far, fffaaarrr longer than you are giving them credit for, and entirely due to the most recent war, so instead of replying to me with what you think you know, consider the following (I will be using this and similar phrases quite often for the forseeable future and as a key right now for this post is thus: think about this. Actually think, like break it down literally like a child with constant, stupid, easy sounding questions; what, why, who, how, when, etc. And like a child, accept no answer as the right one and keep pushing with the stupid questions. Combine the above simple questions together to try and form more complex thoughts. I promise to make this pay off (or at least will try to, anyway. Horse, water, and the man is not at all bright himself));

Drones such as Shaed are can be countered in one of two ways, soft and hard. Soft counters are electronic based systems typically today and as such, right now, are constantly evolving, both in the counters themselves and counter-counters designed to get past them. We will thus ignore them for this discussion. Hard counters are systems designed to physically destroy the target, usually be means of lead believed really fast but anything that physically hits to cause damage can be counted thusly.

Consider a drone; it's a small, remotely operated and independently powered aircraft, usually armed or the aircraft itself may even be armed. They are small, cheap, easy to manufacture and store, and worst of all, can be made with off the shelf parts consumers/civilians may have access to (up to and including explosive payload). There are videos all over the web of them maiming and killing hundreds of troops, and even can be seen regularly blowing up full blown, million dollar pieces of equipment. Keep considering the drone, and follow along below;

Consider those counters (hard especially, but even soft though it will continue to not be expanded upon at this time) again.

Easiest way to put lead on flying aircraft, found out quite early on*, is either a gun on the ground, firing up (the gun/what is fired does not matter, everything at one point or another has been tryed). Best guns for purpose are either smaller calibers fired fast enough to saturate an area an aircraft might be found in, or really large guns firing explosive shells with enough shrapnel to replace the lead of the former.

Consider the US Navy; it's a strange lot these days. Not a lot of boats (no multiple layers of gun defences), most of the small boats they do have have to travel long distances over open water and can be seen from space (not being seen, to finally touch on it once and for all, is still the first and sometimes best soft counter/counter-counter), and wosrt of all, the most important big boats are glorified aircraft landing strips (aircraft while good at taking out other aircraft are always, themselves, aircraft and subject to the same basic law of up and always coming back down, sometimes are bits and pieces of wreckage).

While you think about all that, I will leave you with two bits of reading material, warmest wishes, and the hope you never engage me on military matters ever again.

How the USS Cole got bombed, while at anchor, in Port, controlled by friendly hands (pay close attention to lessons the Navy learned from this)

And finally, to show how long this has been a known problem with solutions worked out*, the chapter from Red Storm Rising, "Vampire!", consider the word vampire and its use here, and please, again most of all,

Never reply to me again on matters of military or related subjects, because I will certainly not be replying to yours.

EDIT: as a further adder on from the other post... a couple of little bits shuffled left or right from original post after rediscovery of its survival and further quiet shaking of head at stupid ass self.

Ugh...

EDIT 2: always something to forget...

*WWI, the second bullet point reference to this point is to consider...just...ask yourself why I would reference a, by the time the book (written at height of Cold War) also has a passing mention of WWI, in relation to said book (featuring modern day for the time jet aircraft), for a chapter with a name of a spooky creature that will at no point in the chapter titled with its name, make an appearance in? I will at no point answer this for you or otherwise hand hold further. Big boy pants time for you

Buddy are you having a stroke?

 

[Gergar12]

Over 90 people died in the attack. But i assume those don't matter, because only US citizens are real people, right ? That Venezuelan lives are worthless has been obvious since the series of events of blowing fisherman to bits for fun.

And that is not even new. Trump bombed more countries in a year than any other president, including those in the world wars. And Biden and Obama regularly attacked without care for civillian caualties as well. I really hope the next US military action is a mass failure with hundreds of US casualties. That might hopefully finally get the US to reconsider.

We literally invented sword missiles to avoid civilian deaths, and I would argue everyone in the US, NATO, Major Non NATO allies, US Partners, and civilians do matter. Dictators, and their senior staff not so much.

 

[Gergar12]

Sorry, didn't mean that as a slam against your point. More the mindset Gergar seems to have. That's the problem with just posting a snarky image.

What that dictators bad, and human rights are good?

 

[Gergar12]

The US is a nation where unmarked militarized "police" forces can just take anyone on the street and vanish them without trial to some oversea prison. The US is a nation that just "lost" hundreds of imprisoned people in "Alligator-Alcatraz". They are just gone - no one knows where they ended up or whether they are still alive. The US is a nation where various media had to pay the president many millions because he didn't like the way they reported on him. The US is a nation that considers people who ctitizice to much to be Antifa-Terrorists and has plans in work to revoke citicenship for such an offense (admittedly, it might not come to this). The US is a nation that revoked student Visa just for any opinion that was seen as supportive to Palestine. The US is a nation that goes through your social media on entry and revokes your Visa if Customs find unflattering posts about Trump-

Sure, BRICS are on average worse. But not nearly as much as you might think. The current US would fit in there quite well.

Maybe once. in a distant past.

The US has sabotaged the WTO and its conflict resolution mechanics every chance it got. Because "might makes right" works out better for the strongest superpower in the world. The US is the nation with by far the most reckless tariffs in the whole world, the opposite of a free trade champion. The US regularly breaks treaties it signed. The US tries its best to force all trade partners into rather unequal bilateral deals and tries to avoid any organisation where it can't throw its might around. The US tries to restrict the trade their trade partners do with third countries. The US tries to get exclusive rights to foreign natural ressources.

It is focused on Greenland because of mineals, and on Venezuela because on oil. Before the operation Trump publicly announced that Venezuelas land and oil should belong to the US. After the operation he announced, that the US would take control of Venezuela and endlessly talked about US companies extracting its oil. Meanwhile he also threatened the interim president to do as he wants or get a worse fate than Madura and told the person the US claims should have been rightful president instead of Madura a "no".

That is not introducing democracy and freeing Venezuelans. Because free Venezuelans would want the oil revenue for themself, there is no US profit to be had. No, what the US attemps to do is just establishing a colony and stripping it bare. They might backtrack if it turns out they would need to deploy troops there to make it happen, but the intentions are more than clear.

And Russia is a nation that started the Ukraine War with 1-2 million deaths, and wounded plus kidnapped children. China also oppresses 1.2-1.4 billion people, puts people they don't like in reeedcuation camps, uses criminal gangs to cheat overseas Chinese-speaking diaspora of money, and spy on them, spies on overseas diaspora and terrorizes them with their CIA, kills dissenters, and funds Hasans PIker the worst of all crimes.

Cuba has a police state, kills religious nuns and priests, tortures people they don't like. Funds overseas dictatorships.

Iran terrorized sunni Syrians, Yemenis, Iraqis, Afgan refugees in their own country, their own people, dissenters, liberals, progressives, socialists, and jews in their own country.

Edit: Also China does "unfair bilateral trade deals as well, they are called debt traps"

North Korea... enough said.

I will care about the getting punched in the face of Trump when people like you care, and want to act against the getting shot, and poison of horrible dictatorship around the world.

Edit2: Greenland is mostly the Dutch not protecting it, and almost allowing Chinese Communist Party interests to put military bases on it in opposition to it's NATO commitements.

Edit3: Spelling Corrections.