video game piracy: a question

[Owyn_Merrilin]

People pirated it, but they also made a boatload of money from the people who paid -- and that's where the anti-piracy arguments break down. This isn't about companies that fail to turn a profit -- far from it, as the most pirated games are also the most bought. No, this is about companies looking at people who didn't buy their games and going "we didn't make as much money as we potentially would have if these people had potentially paid full price for our games." There's too many ifs in there, and the same argument applies whether they pirated the game, bought it used, waited for the price to drop, or just bought a game from another company. In any case, that potential revenue isn't going to the publisher. They need to stop crying about it and look at the revenue they are getting. Lord knows they must have a money vault better than Uncle Scrooge's if they sell everything for $60 a pop, yet still manage to sell millions of copies.

That's not so simple.

First thing is about "greed". Let's say you go to have dinner at a restaurant where you know how much food is served. You order your favorite dish, and when it gets to your table there's only about half the amount of food you're used too. Do you complain, or do you thank them for the wonderful food they're serving? Would you consider yourself "greedy" if you complained? Well, I wouldn't.

Companies, as well as people, have a right to try to maximize their investments, if it's inside the boundaries of the law. Just because it is a company it doesn't mean they should thank people for what they get and not try to maximize the return on investment. This is not greed, or evil, it's just common sense.

Game companies know that some people will always pay for the product, some will only pirate it (or don't play), but for many people in the middle, if they pirate or buy the game depends on how easy they can get a hold of a pirated copy. Trying to make it a little harder to pirate it has a direct effect on revenue.

I'm not 100% against piracy, and I don't like intrusive DRM (don't mind well-crafted, non-intrusive DRM), but this "companies are evil" theme is tiring.

Companies may not be intrinsically evil, but they are intrinsically greedy. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but they have a tendency to take it overboard, as your example of intrusive DRM shows. Basically, there's a difference between complaining that the portion for your meal is small, and complaining that you didn't get both that meal and the next one on the menu, even though you didn't order or pay for it. Video game companies are doing the latter option in their piracy complaints more often than not.

 

[loc978]

Man, this thread is just ban-bait for a lot of people...

But as far as I'm concerned, this thread is asking the wrong questions. All of the excuses listed will only come from a small percentage of people who actually download a given game. The rest simply won't admit to having it.
Owyn_Merrilin hit the nail on the head when he called software piracy "a force of nature". When your product is entirely digital, there will be those who break your security (and yes, there will always be reverse-engineers capable of breaking anything security engineers cook up. That's the nature of the game) and copy it... and there will be those who download it for free. Each individual's reason for such is immaterial, it's simply the nature of digital media markets.

Personally, the problem I find is when a publisher gets overzealous with their security, some people who buy a game can't enjoy it, and others (like me) simply refuse to buy the game, because it comes packaged with something we consider to be malware. I'd rather just not play the damn thing in that case.
When the reverse-engineers who redistribute a game illegally actually improve the game's stability in the process of disabling its security... there's something wrong with that game.

 

[smearyllama]

It's not that I don't empathize with the people who only have the option of piracy, it's just that I find it morally wrong.

Do you find it morally wrong to give free food to those who cannot procure it?

Careful, he's going to tell you that food is a necessity and videogames are a luxury, ignoring the fact that giving free food actually costs money, while making free videogames takes nothing but a little time.

But we're not talking about free games. Piracy isn't a problem with free games, since they are, in a word, free. We're talking about big-budget releases that cost a lot of money to produce and release.

 

[ultimateownage]

'I wouldn't buy it' is just an excuse.
'I can't afford it' Well, if you really wanted to play it you would find the money. This is just an excuse for 90% of the time.
'I cannot get it' - This is the only semi-reasonable excuse, if there is literally no legal way of you getting it in your country.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

You need food to physically survive.
Games you do not.

While the Babylonians did use games as a way of helping themselves through a famine, I don't think that applies here.

I think that buying video games shouldn't be your first priority if you're that hungry.

Edit: Looking at your other posts here, I'm not saying you're wrong.
I just find that part of your argument a little poorly thought out.
I'm not saying that all pirates are scum, but I just find the act itself wrong.

To quote myself: "And entertainment isn't a necessity? It might not be necessary to live but it sure as hell is necessary to live in the modern world. Can you honestly say you could live your life without any form of entertainment?"

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

It's not that I don't empathize with the people who only have the option of piracy, it's just that I find it morally wrong.

Do you find it morally wrong to give free food to those who cannot procure it?

Careful, he's going to tell you that food is a necessity and videogames are a luxury, ignoring the fact that giving free food actually costs money, while making free videogames takes nothing but a little time.

But we're not talking about free games. Piracy isn't a problem with free games, since they are, in a word, free. We're talking about big-budget releases that cost a lot of money to produce and release.

The production cost is there, but it's covered by other purchases; the pirates aren't cutting into that any more than they would be if they skipped buying the game, or if they bought a game from a different company. There is no unit cost being lost like there would be if it was outright theft, because a new copy is being made by someone who isn't even using any of the company's resources. Face it, piracy doesn't cost anyone anything.

 

[ShakyFiend]

snippity

You make several reasonable points, but firstly you missed the other common justification argument (the only really viable one) which is: I couldn't have got it otherwise, ie the game is not available in your country etc etc. I think Notch and several others have come out and said that they'd prefer you to be playing their game for free, rather than not at all.

Secondly, what many people dont understand about piracy is: it is not stealing in the traditional sense of the word. You steal a diamond tiara say, this wrong for several reasons:
a. You have deprived the maker/distributor of his rightful profit.
b. You have undermined the general trust of shop owners etc. leading to tighter security and more inconvenience for all involved.
c. You can sell the tiara illegally contributing and enlarging the market for illegal things and gaining immoral profits yourself.

With digital theft on the other hand, with a. the distributor and maker haven't actually lost anything, if I go download three hundred copies of Mass Effect right now it wont hurt Bioware one bit. But if I stole three hundred Ferrari's one hell of a lot would be lost.

C. it is pretty much impossible to sell pirated games for profit in the same way that the pirated DVD market dosent really exist any more. Finally only b. really applies to game piracy and as we've discovered, DRM just dosent work, for anyone.

 

[twiceworn]

'I wouldn't buy it' is just an excuse.
'I can't afford it' Well, if you really wanted to play it you would find the money. This is just an excuse for 90% of the time.
'I cannot get it' - This is the only semi-reasonable excuse, if there is literally no legal way of you getting it in your country.

ok so i have to ask two questions first, what if there is a game that is not your type so you have no intention of buying but somone offers it to you for free as they dont want it anymore you just have to get it out of the car (like just clicking a link) would you take it?
second what if you have no money none all gone to bills for things like food and phone payments you have zero cash or simply not enough to buy the game either way the industry wont be getting money from you so you pirate the game, my questions is this: WHAT DO THEY LOSE? you will be giving them no money anyway your not taking an item off a shelf that they could sell to somone else they were never getting your money and now they still wont WHAT DO THEY LOSE?

 

[smearyllama]

You need food to physically survive.
Games you do not.

While the Babylonians did use games as a way of helping themselves through a famine, I don't think that applies here.

I think that buying video games shouldn't be your first priority if you're that hungry.

Edit: Looking at your other posts here, I'm not saying you're wrong.
I just find that part of your argument a little poorly thought out.
I'm not saying that all pirates are scum, but I just find the act itself wrong.

To quote myself: "And entertainment isn't a necessity? It might not be necessary to live but it sure as hell is necessary to live in the modern world. Can you honestly say you could live your life without any form of entertainment?"

I agree, but I think if you're really desperate for entertainment, and have access to the internet, you'll have plenty of other ways to entertain yourself.
Example: Sites like Kongregate, which provide some really great games for free.

 

[twiceworn]

snippity

You make several reasonable points, but firstly you missed the other common justification argument (the only really viable one) which is: I couldn't have got it otherwise, ie the game is not available in your country etc etc. I think Notch and several others have come out and said that they'd prefer you to be playing their game for free, rather than not at all.

Secondly, what many people dont understand about piracy is: it is not stealing in the traditional sense of the word. You steal a diamond tiara say, this wrong for several reasons:
a. You have deprived the maker/distributor of his rightful profit.
b. You have undermined the general trust of shop owners etc. leading to tighter security and more inconvenience for all involved.
c. You can sell the tiara illegally contributing and enlarging the market for illegal things and gaining immoral profits yourself.

With digital theft on the other hand, with a. the distributor and maker haven't actually lost anything, if I go download three hundred copies of Mass Effect right now it wont hurt Bioware one bit. But if I stole three hundred Ferrari's one hell of a lot would be lost.

C. it is pretty much impossible to sell pirated games for profit in the same way that the pirated DVD market dosent really exist any more. Finally only b. really applies to game piracy and as we've discovered, DRM just dosent work, for anyone.

spot on, finaly somone who decided to read what i posted before posting.
i dont think DRM is anything other that a money grab as it is no problem to get aroud for a pirate, piracy is a great excuse to grab cash but an excuse none the less

 

[AndyFromMonday]

To quote myself: "And entertainment isn't a necessity? It might not be necessary to live but it sure as hell is necessary to live in the modern world. Can you honestly say you could live your life without any form of entertainment?"

I agree, but I think if you're really desperate for entertainment, and have access to the internet, you'll have plenty of other ways to entertain yourself.
Example: Sites like Kongregate, which provide some really great games for free.[/quote]

Flash games are not on the same level as a full fledged game the same way watching YouTube videos is not on the same level as watching a movie.

 

[smearyllama]

To quote myself: "And entertainment isn't a necessity? It might not be necessary to live but it sure as hell is necessary to live in the modern world. Can you honestly say you could live your life without any form of entertainment?"

I agree, but I think if you're really desperate for entertainment, and have access to the internet, you'll have plenty of other ways to entertain yourself.
Example: Sites like Kongregate, which provide some really great games for free.

Flash games are not on the same level as a full fledged game the same way watching YouTube videos is not on the same level as watching a movie.[/quote]
That's why they're free.
There's also a lot of deep games that you can get for low prices. A lot of titles available on steam will run on a budget computer (Fallout, Torchlight, Morrowind, etc.)

 

[zehydra]

Also if you can't afford $60 for a game, where did you get the hundreds of dollars for a console or PC?

This has always been my sentiment.

 

[twiceworn]

Also if you can't afford $60 for a game, where did you get the hundreds of dollars for a console or PC?

This has always been my sentiment.

i will asume you work all day and get back to some asshole demanding you help him move his sofa leaving you no time to realise that having payed many hundreads of pounds possibly £1200 (MY custome PC) you may not have any cash left for games. or and hears a thought, you did have money left at the time but your life has changed recently and you no longer have the same cash flow

 

[Vidiot]

Pirating a game is much like sneaking into a movie. You haven't taken anything away from the company, but you got to witness a performance everyone else paid to see. I see it as a morally grey area if you can't afford it, but it is still illegal.

For example: I'm pumped to play the new Deus Ex game. Problems: I don't know if it will even run on my laptop, I don't have the money since Student Loan companies want all my disposable income for the next 67 years, and if I rent it from Gamefly, it won't arrive for 3 months. (just got Alice: MR last week)

I could pirate the game, then I'd know if it ran on my laptop, (it probably won't) or I could wait until next year to play a game I've been waiting most of a decade to play.

 

[zehydra]

Also if you can't afford $60 for a game, where did you get the hundreds of dollars for a console or PC?

This has always been my sentiment.

i will asume you work all day and get back to some asshole demanding you help him move his sofa leaving you no time to realise that having payed many hundreads of pounds possibly £1200 (MY custome PC) you may not have any cash left for games. or and hears a thought, you did have money left at the time but your life has changed recently and you no longer have the same cash flow

Well, sure, but you're still in a good condition to be getting money, relatively speaking. Unless you're dead poor (which if you are, I'd wonder why you're spending your time playing video games), or live in a country that is has a very weak currency, getting the money shouldn't be a problem. If you have a tighter cash flow, but you can still afford other dispensables, then tough.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

That's why they're free.
There's also a lot of deep games that you can get for low prices. A lot of titles available on steam will run on a budget computer (Fallout, Torchlight, Morrowind, etc.)

Doesn't mean you can ignore the modern gaming market. Still, if publishers gave a fuck about piracy they'd adjust their prices accordingly.

 

[twiceworn]

Also if you can't afford $60 for a game, where did you get the hundreds of dollars for a console or PC?

This has always been my sentiment.

i will asume you work all day and get back to some asshole demanding you help him move his sofa leaving you no time to realise that having payed many hundreads of pounds possibly £1200 (MY custome PC) you may not have any cash left for games. or and hears a thought, you did have money left at the time but your life has changed recently and you no longer have the same cash flow

Well, sure, but you're still in a good condition to be getting money, relatively speaking. Unless you're dead poor (which if you are, I'd wonder why you're spending your time playing video games), or live in a country that is has a very weak currency, getting the money shouldn't be a problem. If you have a tighter cash flow, but you can still afford other dispensables, then tough.

making money doesn't mean you have money to spend example you have mobile phone payments and you need food and you are a student

 

[zehydra]

It's not that I don't empathize with the people who only have the option of piracy, it's just that I find it morally wrong.

Do you find it morally wrong to give free food to those who cannot procure it?

Careful, he's going to tell you that food is a necessity and videogames are a luxury, ignoring the fact that giving free food actually costs money, while making free videogames takes nothing but a little time.

which would be a good response. Food doesn't actually cost money any more than producing a video game.

 

[___________________]

Good question. If a guy isn't a fan of a franchise and has plans on spending money on other ones then he'll probably download if he's curious about what that development team is offering. Demos? you can't see the whole extent of the work in a demo, imagine the game starts sucking half way through...yeah. Life isn't just about gaming, people need money for other stuff, so they are lucky those people can get to know their work. These dev teams want devoted fans? Work harder at making quality games that interest people. Quality over quantity. Besides, the "pirates" as they are so inaccurately called don't usually make money off the stuff they download do they? Some pirates.

So,

Free publicity for the devs if a person doesn't buy the game but downloads it and people get to know what's out there.

Or,

If the person buys the game the devs get money.

If anything the consumer is the one always losing. They lose money if they buy something, especially if they bite the bait set by marketing and don't actually enjoy the game. And they lose dignity by being called pirates when they don't buy it and download instead. Why would they insult people who are getting to know their work and might be future fans? If they didn't download the stuff the dev team wouldn't see money nor spread the word on their work.

I'm tired of companies using "piracy" as an excuse to justify their mediocrity. Gotta spend money (properly) to make money kiddies.