Videogame Characters "Lack Diversity," Study Finds

Oolinthu

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Glefistus said:
Oh, I didn't realize everyone wanted to ruin gaming with political correctness. If you need me, I'll be deleting all my games and playing D&D.
Sorry, last I heard D&D has colored people in it now, too. You'll have to go elsewhere to avoid that nasty old "political correctness". I notice that every time I hear the term "PC" or "political correctness" it has a slightly different implied definition that essentially amounts to whatever the speaker doesn't agree with or like.

Tell me, what is it that so terrifies you about video games representing everyone? Keep in mind, since you don't seem to be one for subtlety or sophistication, that no one's suggesting that every game should represent every group. But, do tell me, what exactly is wrong with the entire medium, at some point, representing everyone? For someone who claims not to care about race issues, you sure seem terrified of the idea people might actually be represented in the games they play.

Gormourn said:
Diversity, heh.

What a joke, in my opinion. All people are just people. And if the game's fictional world just oh, I don't know, doesn't have people with darker skin - hell, maybe everyone's skin is light blue - doesn't mean that they should insert black and asian characters in there just to be politically correct.


Also, that hypothetical videogame/novel about the inuit who live in complete seclusion from other humans on North Pole (okay, they don't ACTUALLY live there, but just for the sake of this idiotic example) and interact with aliens who just landed would have a quota on black, white, and asian characters just to be "diverse". -_-
See above. I'm so tired of that pitiful, knee-jerk excuse for an argument.
 

Verp

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ShredHead said:
Besides, complex stories and topics can be much easier found in books, games were really invented for a different purpose.
Dude, look back and think about all those people who said that exact thing about comics. Just do it.
 

Mr.Squishy

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Now what can I add to a discussion that has it all? Drivel from a white european male who has his 18th birthday in two weeks? Why not..
I know RPGs have already been mentioned for their character customisation, but I want to go deeper in on it. Now, I recently picked up Baldur's Gate (haven't finished yet, so many sidequests etc. >.> ) And I noticed something: You can play as quite a bit of races - halfling, half-orc, half-elf, elf and a couple of others I don't remember. You can also choose a wide variety of portraits or make your own. Now, what I noticed was that I thought "hm...I really wanna try half-elf" and discovered that it's a pretty good race (at least for a sorcerer). Even so, I can't say too much about the character creation and that stuff. Why? I've been too busy healing minsc (eccentric foreign warrior who's bloody awesome and...I wouldn't say a deep character, but very amusing and uplifting to have around - and he swings a two-hander pretty damn well), using jaheira's (Jaheira is what I'd call a pretty good character - Strong, useful, pretty much the one who led my party and in general well-developed). I say this goes for Dynaheir too (though she's a mage, so she's not as "strong" in the physical sense, but make her memorize fireball three times per day and she kicks royal ass), and I just noticed she's "foregin" too. I honestly didn't notice 'till chapter seven. When I think it over, minsc and dynaheir might've been...let's see, how to say this...two of the best characters i know in gaming. Minsc because in addition to being amusing and uplifting as well as kickass, also has some words of wisdom, some subtle, some not. Dynaheir because she can kick serious ass with spells and has a high position in her home country. If you want a lady who can kick ass in hand-to-hand as well, I would recommend you shar-teel or branwen (though it's been a long time since i last had them in my party, so I can't remember exactly how they were). Oh, and of course, I'd be a idiot if I didn't mention everyone's favorite loveable thief, Imoen. She's a bit annoying, yes, but a pretty good thief (at least she has been with me) and as with the other characters, very well-developed.

Now, I know I had a point in here somewhere, but I imagine it's lost. Sorry. Disregard this babble if you don't see the point (I sure as hell wouldn't see it), and comment if you see my point (in which case you can have a cookie)
 

Generic_Dave

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Jul 15, 2009
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Personally I'm really looking forward to GTA having children and the elderly on zimmer frames in it. Though I doubt it would go down well with the tabloids...whatever about the race issues, I think the inclusion of Old People or children isn't always appropriate...some game settings just don't really have room for this. Also avoiding being banned because your can run over lil'Timmy and his grandma on their way to Sunday school...

On a side issue, if you did a similar break-down of race in movies, how often do "obviously" Hispanic or Asian actors get leading roles in films that don't originate in South America / Iberia or Asia? I can't remember the last Hollywood blockbuster with a male asian lead...being white myself, I'd never really thought bout it, so I guess I'm guilty of the apathy too...its a sad realisation to be honest.

And maybe it'll make some people who make games think too.
 

RobCoxxy

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I'm a relatively upper-lower-middle class English Eighteen year old teenage male.
I grew up on Super Mario 64.
I think i'm italian, the study was right, oh, identity crisis, oh shit.

Nah. They're characters. For a reason. They're not the gamer.
 

MrSnugglesworth

Into the Wild Green Snuggle
Jan 15, 2009
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Woah, look at this guy, with all his science.

I could have told him the same answer, and I wouldnt've had to waste the money.
 

Saskwach

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HobbesMkii said:
Saskwach said:
I have a question about this Identity Formation. (I'll assume it's true since it's way above my pay-grade.) If someone were to play videogames with more white people than their own race (black, asian, latino) what would that do to them? Would there be exclusively negative consequences or are there positive ones? Is it neither good nor bad? Or good? Or just bad? If so, why?
Perhaps this has been posted somewhere on the thread, but I skimmed to get here.
It's in the study, linked to below in my quote (I'm really trying to pimp the hell out of this). The discussion of the effects start on the bottom of page 5 of the PDF (under BACKGROUND and then "Why game representations matter"). Or, if that's too dense, I discuss it a little more in layman's terms (although, I'm not a scientist, nor do I have a background in social psychology, I'm a writer, which is why I cite books instead of studies) at post 106, Point 2 (I'm quoted in posts 107 and 110).

HobbesMkii said:
The study, available here, free of charge: http://dmitriwilliams.com/VirtualCensusFinal.pdf definitely speaks for itself.
I tried. I really did. But I couldn't understand a word of what that guy said after the second sentence. It's like he was trying to make it impenetrable by back-referencing and high-falutin' language. And I appreciate why you refer to novels - even that the particular novel referenced is based on real life - but I have an inherent distrust of fiction masquerading as real life in all its complexity.
So I hate to sound snooty, but I still don't understand: is there a general trend towards good or bad, and what does this trend mean for the people involved? Cliff's Notes would be appreciated. (Thank you for being understanding.)
It seems that some part of the term refers to people seeing the privileged group as better and ideal, but does it always - or mostly - mean that the person sees their own group as worse? I'm intrigued.
 

HobbesMkii

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Jun 7, 2008
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Saskwach said:
I tried. I really did. But I couldn't understand a word of what that guy said
I still don't understand: is there a general trend towards good or bad, and what does this trend mean for the people involved? Cliff's Notes would be appreciated. (Thank you for being understanding.)
I'll try and break his words down point by point. (Sorry, this ran a bit longer than I intended).

The first study he cites says that media portrayal of social groups is both a mirror to American society and the forces at play, and an agent of those forces. If one group has significantly more air time (since the study he cites deals mainly with television) than is equal to their percentage of the population, it is likely because that group is "more ?vital? and enjoy more status and power in daily life" (from Page 5). We assume that in a perfect world where everyone was equal, people would be represented "fairly" (or according to the percentage of the population they comprise). Since media representation is a mirror of society, we can look at how media perceives groups and understand how these groups are perceived in daily life. At least, that's what Williams and his peer reviewers say the study cited indicated. And science is notoriously picky about what we consider facts.

His next point explains why we might assume that videogames exert some influence over the player. He cites a social theory called "Cultivation theory" (Page 6) Cultivation theory deals with long term effects on large groups consuming media, as opposed to the Jack Thompson-esque BS which is "GTAIV makes people want to kill another person immediately after playing the game." Cultivation theory is more concerned with what role GTAIV might have on society and culture later on. He cites another study that applies cultivation theory to videogames, which seems to (and now I'm a little confused, because I don't quite know some of this jargon) indicate that videogames cultivate society not through the dissemination of broad social and cultural values, but instead through specifically targeted symbols (he appears to be citing his own earlier research into video games. He also reinforces it by citing another guy who apparently observed this more targeted approach in media in 2002).

This next point is an important one: how these might influence people. The studies cited in this paragraph explain that when media presents "social objects" (an example of a social object would be a type of person) to a viewer, the viewer's mind records those social objects and any information pertaining to them (like what the context they appeared in the media was). If one object is presented more often than another, the object shown more often becomes much easier for a person to recall, as well as the information that relates to that object.

He then discusses a study which has observed the effect of media portrayal of a group in a form of media (specifically Latinos on television). The study demonstrated that media portrayal will influence a viewer's perceptions of the group (though the caveat is that media is thwarted by real-life interactions). Williams then suggests that if one medium can be shown to have a pattern of influence, it is not unlikely that other mediums will have similar effects. He then notes that videogames are becoming the primary influential entertainment media for many Americans. So groups more often portrayed by videogames will be much more familiar to gamers.

Next is the observation of the effects discussed in The Bluest Eye by science itself (there's a plethora of studies here. Usually he's cited one or two per paragraph, now he's cited five in a single one). What the studies demonstrate is that people observe how their personal social group is represented by media, and then compare that representation to the representation of other people. They use this to figure out where they as individuals stand in American society. Other studies show that the presence of a group in a media strengthens that group's sense of power and status, whereas the absence of a group makes that group feel "unimportant and powerless" (Page 7). He also explains that these effects are heightened or lowered depending on how often these groups play games.

The last paragraphs in Background are about numbers, generally detailing statistics of various demographics. For instance, women make up 50.1% of the population, but gamers are 40% female, 60% male. He also cites a study that notes that African-Americans and Latinos play games at higher rates than other groups (suggesting that they're impacted more by the portrayal, or lack of portrayal of their social group). He ends by explaining that gamers, who have an average age of 35, skew younger than the average US population.
 

Alex_P

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Xan Krieger said:
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. "
And yet I hear talk about race. I am colorblind to race. If you treat me good, I'll treat you good, if you treat me like crap, I'll treat you like crap. Seriously I know people have said in this thread that ignoring race is a problem but let me ask you this. How is judging people on the content of their character a bad thing? It's saying bad people are bad and good people are good. The skin color has nothing to do with it.
Treating people by the content of their character shouldn't preclude one from taking notice of when other people are judging them by the color of their skin.

-- Alex
 

Anarien

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First off, I am the author of this article [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_184/5648-Gangbangers-Victims-and-Whores] from Escapist #184,and have a bit of a background in sociology, so I do have some interest and background in the topic.

A lot of disheartening comments here. This is a study and its conclusions may be useful or beneficial to understanding several aspects of culture and development.Its results may also have applications useful in broadening markets.

It seems to me, also reflected in the content of many of these comments, that it's somewhat more about White Privilege [http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html#daily] than outright racism. (More, for those who'd like to inform themselves - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege]

HobbesMkii said:
There's an odd variety of arguments against the representation of diverisity being raised here. Some are very peculiar.

*snip*
This whole post of yours was excellent. Your examples were great. Media affects us all in some ways that we don't see. It seems some people here are ignorant of this.

Here's another classic example that ties into identity formation in minority youth - Dr. Kenneth and Mamie Clark's doll tests of the 1940s, which helped lead to desegregation of schools.

In the "doll test," psychologists Kenneth and Mamie Clark used four plastic, diaper-clad dolls, identical except for color. They showed the dolls to black children between the ages of three and seven and asked them questions to determine racial perception and preference. Almost all of the children readily identified the race of the dolls. However, when asked which they preferred, the majority selected the white doll and attributed positive characteristics to it. The Clarks also gave the children outline drawings of a boy and girl and asked them to color the figures the same color as themselves. Many of the children with dark complexions colored the figures with a white or yellow crayon. The Clarks concluded that "prejudice, discrimination, and segregation" caused black children to develop a sense of inferiority and self-hatred.
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/brown/brown-brown.html

Note that a filmmaker repeated the doll test in Harlem a few years ago and found similar results.

What this study shows is that yet another form of media lacks diversity, and with the growth of video games, there may be some detrimental effects. That said, many studies have also demonstrated the effect of media on adults, so this isn't merely a case of exposure affecting children's development.

It would be great to have more diversity in both character origins and in character types/personalities. Why can't we have both? It doesn't have to be one or the other (for those denouncing space marines). Those inferring that to even consider greater diversity in games would be too hard or would be only for PC reasons are being ignorant and missing the point.

Of course race/ethnicity and gender should be incidental whenever possible, but there are a lot more factors at work here. Humanity doesn't exist in a bubble, and neither does culture.
 

maddawg IAJI

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*Looks at Louis and Sheva*

Those guys are reinforcing sterotypes?

*Looks at Dom*

He's not playable? Did These guys just base there study on the first 5 minutes of each game?
 

Anarien

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maddawg IAJI said:
*Looks at Louis and Sheva*

Those guys are reinforcing sterotypes?

*Looks at Dom*

He's not playable? Did These guys just base there study on the first 5 minutes of each game?
These games may not have yet been released when the research was conducted. It's very likely, in fact, since these studies take time, especially those published in a peer-reviewed journal. Also, in the case of Sheva, the fact that she is very light-skinned has been criticized by some. Everyone around Sheva is pretty much very dark. So the good person who you can trust is very light, even though she is a minority, and can be perceived as less 'threatening' to the status quo.

In many cultures, being as white as you can is what is thought of as beautiful. Across Asia and Africa, for example, skin lightening creams and even risky procedures to lighten skin are very popular. This isn't limited to other countries, as the doll test I quoted above shows. I had a friend who had extremely dark skin and she was repeatedly picked on by other black girls in our class for being so dark.

Note that I am not personally criticizing the presence of Sheva, I am merely stating that there was some criticism and what the roots of that criticism are.
 

swytchblayd

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Malygris said:
"Latino children play more videogames than white children. And they're really not able to play themselves. For identity formation, that's a problem. And for generating interest in technology, it may place underrepresented groups behind the curve," Williams said.
Frankly, I find this to be bullshit silly. Not to be racist, but what about the part of them being able to afford these games in their weekly budgets in the first place? Also, what part of America were they doing this study? I hardly see any Hispanics or Latinos at the Rock Band or Guitar Hero kiosks where I'm living. Admittingly, Indiana is a bit further north of the border, but still...

Kids will play these games no matter what, and they will still know whether they're black or white or Asian or Hispanic. Society won't let them forget that, except in videogames ~.~

On the subject of female protagonists, what about Samus, or Lara? What about Chell? This whole thing is silly. Its like when they say that female PCs give young girls the wrong impressions about themselves. Its a game, not a life simulator; its an escape, not the real deal. Any argument to the contrary is ridiculous. At least you can turn videogames off.

Alright, got that out of my overly-opinionated system.
 

Pinstar

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How did they score games that allow you to create your own character, such as The Sims?
 

HobbesMkii

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swytchblayd said:
Malygris said:
"Latino children play more videogames than white children. And they're really not able to play themselves. For identity formation, that's a problem. And for generating interest in technology, it may place underrepresented groups behind the curve," Williams said.
Frankly, I find this to be bullshit silly. Not to be racist, but what about the part of them being able to afford these games in their weekly budgets in the first place? Also, what part of America were they doing this study? I hardly see any Hispanics or Latinos at the Rock Band or Guitar Hero kiosks where I'm living. Admittingly, Indiana is a bit further north of the border, but still...

Kids will play these games no matter what, and they will still know whether they're black or white or Asian or Hispanic. Society won't let them forget that, except in videogames ~.~

On the subject of female protagonists, what about Samus, or Lara? What about Chell? This whole thing is silly. Its like when they say that female PCs give young girls the wrong impressions about themselves. Its a game, not a life simulator; its an escape, not the real deal. Any argument to the contrary is ridiculous. At least you can turn videogames off.
Firstly, you have to remember that Andy Chalk's article is many degrees away from the actual study itself (He's citing GamePolitics, which is citing TG Daily, which is citing the New Media & Society Journal). The language is a little vague. While in the "Discussion" section of his research, he does say that Latinos play more (which is the quote in Mr. Chalk's and TG Daily's article) in the "Background" section (which is the part where he talks about the information one would need to understand the study's results) he says Latinos play games at a higher rate. And then he cites a scientific study conducted in 2005! It's not an area of contention, it's a pattern observed by scientists, who had in-depth peer review into their study before the results of that 2005 study was published. Because that's how science works. You're not allowed to say anything without also having evidence to back it up.

Secondly, you're right, we do use entertainment media to escape. But therein lies the problem. In order to escape, we have to utilize our subconscious, our imagination (to oversimplify it). Our subconscious self can be influenced largely against our will. If media gives a uniform white male identity for us to escape into (i.e. makes all our characters white), it's sending a message, on a relatively subconscious level, that being white is the race you ought to imagine you should be, and being male is the gender. Again, this isn't just me pushing my opinion. This is observed fact, found in numerous studies, a large portion of which are actually cited within the article. Anarien gave another example, and explained that the evidence was strong enough to cause the Supreme Court to desegregate schools.

If you'd like to read the study yourself, it's available here: http://dmitriwilliams.com/VirtualCensusFinal.pdf
 

Saskwach

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HobbesMkii said:
Thank you. So as I understand it people use entertainment media (where real life hasn't trumped it in the hypothetical example) to make abstract valuations of things as good or bad relative to other things.