View from the Road: What Do WoW and Twilight Have in Common?

[Billion Backs]

Oh, I think Werewolves and Vampires are treated special because they are somewhat the most popular fantasy characters and offer little variation because they have a very narrow characterization. The elven example you made can illustrate this point. You mixed stuff from dark elves, tolkien elves, high elves and so on, the things are actually called different, while the only commom attribute is a tendancy to pointy ears. So elves are a huge categeorie. Vampires are not, they are just vampires, because they have these extreme and exact attributes. I think that's why people don't like you messing with them, you are messing with something they believe to know very good.

This leads to another point: Vampires and werewolves are subject to many, if not the most horror movies/comics/games out there, among with dieing teenagers. People feel save about them, thing to have seen everything about them, that's why they bother.

I don't think I agree. The only "required" thing for someone to be a vampire is to have to drink blood for sustenance. And that might not even be the case when it comes to "psychic vampires" or some similar shit. And for werewolves, turning into a wolf is pretty important.

Aside from that, I think, anything goes. Personalities and characteristics don't have to follow the same narrow path...

 

[Jared]

He fandoms, or any fandom can be rather protective. I guess it's a case if a pot calling the kettle black

 

[Cousin_IT]

I suspect we have twilight vamps because they're gay, & these wogan things because lolfurries. Nerds are nothing if not insecure, after all, & seeing the super straight & butch masculine fantasy alter-egos girlified makes us feel feelings we don't understand & find confusing.

 

[Billion Backs]

I never believed in a solid mold for fictional characters. I like how writers and other artist always use their own ideas, in stead of using the prerendered Tolkien-style creatures. I always hated writers that do stuff like that.

I think the Worgen looks awesome. That should be enough.

I agree. When people just go along with Tolkien fantasy mold and add little more then names and story, it annoys me completely.

And yes, Worgen do look quite awesome. And whatever class you make, don't be a druid... I'm a wolf that shifts into a bear!

 

[Billion Backs]

I suspect we have twilight vamps because they're gay, & these wogan things because lolfurries. Nerds are nothing if not insecure, after all, & seeing the super straight & butch masculine fantasy alter-egos girlified makes us feel feelings we don't understand & find confusing.

I thought stalking a girl and eventually fucking her wouldn't go well with being gay...

Boy I was wrong!

Those damn gays, always out to stalk and impregnate your daughter.

 

[spartan231490]

well said!

 

[GothmogII]

Well, speaking on the dwarves. BioWare made an admirable stab at it with Dragon Age. But, while I enjoyed the lore behind them and how their government and cities were set up, I couldn't really take them as dwarves due the blandness of the accent. I mean, you've got a smorgasbord of accents on display, various English, French and the soothing vaguely Hispanic tones of Zev, but, the dwarves...they get stuck with the generoamerican vo work. I mean...maybe if they weren't going to take the Highlands route they could have gone back their Norse roots. Yeah, that would've been better, a race of underground Norwegians.

As for the Worgen, I never had a problem with them in the first place. But I agree, the niggling over them is pretty silly.

 

[oneplus999]

I think the biggest cause as to why vampires and werewolves get this treatment is familiarity with the source. Everyone loves some self-righteous indignation, and vampires and werewolves are really common lore in our culture, but, for example, trolls and orcs just aren't. So there are more people to express their dismay at the bastardization of the lore for creative purposes. For an even better example, just look at the wyvern in wow. It's like the took the description of a manticore (lion/scorpion/man), gave it wings, but then decided to call it a wyvern, which is supposed to be reptilian. Where's the stink about that??? No one cares... except me

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Trying to find new spins on old concepts shouldn't be (and isn't) necessary, but it shouldn't be condemned, either

I think it's perfectly acceptable to condemn concepts that don't make sense in their own concept.

Twilight "vampires" fail because if they did exist, they'd break major laws of physics, chemistry, biology, anthropology and many other natural laws. And if you disregard those laws, without providing suitable laws to sustain them, they fail under their own laws.

Teleporters, Time Travel and numerous other "soft" sciences work because they provide a pseudo-scientific basis for their existence. If you're actually theorising a massive density, invulnerable creature that survives purely on an organic soup created by an inferior life-form; and has a biological component that itself acts intelligently, then there's an awful lot of laws you have to re-write to accommodate it. If you then want to add in a hyperactive shapeshifter than draws physical matter from nowhere, survives on the same soup, and is at constant war with a far superior enemy, which can re-create itself purely by swapping soup with another inferior life-form, then the basic laws of causality collapse into an author wishlist.

Fireballs may not exist; but thermodynamics, conservation of energy/momentum etc. that allow humanity to survive have to take account of this.

"Normal" vampires are creatures cursed by a Higher power to act like blood junkies, resembling the effects of known diseases (Porphyria/Rabies), known drug effects (PCP, Heroin) and base human fears (Xenophobia, Nictophobia, Sexual Predatory behaviour).

If Worgen have Crinos forms that draw power from Elder Gods, then I've no problem with them. If they have normal platemail that shifts with them, then there's something that needs looking at.

 

[BlindChance]

First, John Funk, thank you so much for saying this. Absolutely right.

Actually, White Wolf did it waaaaaaaaay before Stephanie Meyer - the vampires of the World of Darkness are infinitely the most emo twatty bastards I have ever read.

And, in turn, Anne Rice did it way before White Wolf with Interview with the Vampire. She's the person they were ripping off most when they created Vampire: The Masquerade. A few other people too. (For goodness sake, one of the clans is named Nosferatu.) But Anne Rice was clearly the most powerful influence for the setting.

Of course, they're also the most badass this side of Blade.

Justin Achilli, the last developer on Vampire: The Masquerade, was pretty much willing to come out and flat out call the film version of Blade a V:tM ripoff [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.whitewolf/msg/97116fd1ecb4b3f4?]. Make of that what you will. (Having not seen the film, I can't comment personally.)

 

[lleihsad]

Vampires are a variation of the "Fair Folk" - the inscrutable supernatural peoples of the night. As much as the word "vampire" gets an annoying amount of play (would it be that bad to give us a "Strigoi" now and then?), they're all really just an somewhat nebulous part of a larger mythological genre.

As far as the "big picture" of the article goes, people just think the "real" version of Fantasy Archetype X is whatever they think is the coolest. "Unworthy" takes on the characters in question are generally treated as insults, but sometimes you swear that the protesters sound threatened. Like this new form will catch on and drive the Real Deal out of existence.

 

[Susan Arendt]

Near as I can tell, to be a vampire, you must drink blood to survive. For a werewolf, you shape shift from man to wolf. Aaaaaand that's all the actual requirements. Everything after that is just window dressing up to the individual creator.

Sure, each species has come to have "accepted" trappings over the years, but most of those were set in stone by either a movie or a specific book - both of which came out of someone's imagination, not The Truth. These are mythical creatures, and one author's take on them is just as valid as another's.

If Twilight wasn't such poorly written, insulting claptrap, nobody would mind its vision of vamps, just as Funk pointed out. People need to lighten the hell up and embrace the idea someone enjoying something you don't doesn't diminish you in any way. In other words, sparkly vampires don't make your vampires any less cool.

 

[John Funk]

Trying to find new spins on old concepts shouldn't be (and isn't) necessary, but it shouldn't be condemned, either

I think it's perfectly acceptable to condemn concepts that don't make sense in their own concept.

Twilight "vampires" fail because if they did exist, they'd break major laws of physics, chemistry, biology, anthropology and many other natural laws. And if you disregard those laws, without providing suitable laws to sustain them, they fail under their own laws.

Teleporters, Time Travel and numerous other "soft" sciences work because they provide a pseudo-scientific basis for their existence. If you're actually theorising a massive density, invulnerable creature that survives purely on an organic soup created by an inferior life-form; and has a biological component that itself acts intelligently, then there's an awful lot of laws you have to re-write to accommodate it. If you then want to add in a hyperactive shapeshifter than draws physical matter from nowhere, survives on the same soup, and is at constant war with a far superior enemy, which can re-create itself purely by swapping soup with another inferior life-form, then the basic laws of causality collapse into an author wishlist.

Fireballs may not exist; but thermodynamics, conservation of energy/momentum etc. that allow humanity to survive have to take account of this.

"Normal" vampires are creatures cursed by a Higher power to act like blood junkies, resembling the effects of known diseases (Porphyria/Rabies), known drug effects (PCP, Heroin) and base human fears (Xenophobia, Nictophobia, Sexual Predatory behaviour).

If Worgen have Crinos forms that draw power from Elder Gods, then I've no problem with them. If they have normal platemail that shifts with them, then there's something that needs looking at.

I'm sorry, but this is one of the silliest arguments I've ever heard. If you can suspend your disbelief enough to believe that we're fighting demons by slinging shadow magic at them, you can suspend your disbelief to believe in vampires, even vegetarian ones or ones that glitter in sunlight.

 

[Cabisco]

While reading this I was reminded of the letter that a Twillight fan wrote to Universal complaining that The Wolfman was nothing like the wolf pack from Twlight.

I had never felt such rage whilst reading a letter in my life.

I heard of but never read that, if you had a link that would be wonderful.

I like that the article points out on multiple occasions that we can still hate twilight just so long as we remember that interpretations of mystical creatures from Nosferatu to Blade have changed and we are normally very accepting. It's just in the Twilight franchises case, it's gone terribly wrong and so we associate that change with why it's so bad.

Though, no matter the case, anything that is penned towards the scene/emo tween girl demographic and sparkles I will likely hate. I said likely, thank the gods for wiggle room.

Here's the letter;
[link]http://www.latinoreview.com/news/open-letter-to-universal-your-wolfman-ripped-off-twilight-9247[/link]

I will not be held responsible for any rage felt while reading it though.

I didn't rage, but it did bring a smile over my face. Thank you for showing me.

 

[Manicotti]

Not a bad piece, although I must disagree. The thing I refuse to stand about the Twilight vampire is that it has absolutely none of the dignity that's been afforded to its type. Even the Count from Sesame Street has a certain gravitas for the environment that it's in, but Edward does not. There is absolutely nothing about the story that is related to his being a vampire that you couldn't replace with a mortal jock, and his vampiric characteristics have been literally defanged into just a nice little side dish. "Oh, you're a vampire? That's cool."

If Meyer wanted to play up his undeath in a vampires against the rest of civilization scenario, then THAT could have made a more interesting romance. But it wasn't. The whole concept of his being a vampire was for no other reason than to cut off the balls of a cultural icon and monster, and that is why I object to it.

 

[Valiance]

Agreed 100%, love the article, just wanted to mention that Dwarves in Dragon Age: Origins have a little more going for them than just being stocky and badass.

I see no point to continuity among fantasy worlds, and in fact I am disgusted by the widespread (mis)use of Tolkien, MacDonald and other high fantasy settings.

I get very tired when people debate about how vampires or werewolves or whatever are "supposed" to be, and it just seems very pointlessly inconclusive to argue about that sort of thing.

 

[Darkstrike_11]

you make some good points!

one thing I would say about dwarves is that while most people make them the stocky scottish beer swilling type, think about the Elder Scrolls universe! In that dwarves are an ancient type of elf who are obsessed with steam and magic, not stone and craftsmanship! pretty sure their armour makes them the same height as regular humans as well!