View From the Road: Where Everybody Knows Your Name

[Cynical skeptic]

Yes, and hmm, why do you suppose he said that, yes? Maybe because 2ch has its fair share of assholes and dickweeds, too? So it isn't a bastion of polite discourse? Yes, he was held accountable for what he said. Good, he should have been.

See, I (used to) regularly post on 4chan's /m/, because I like mecha, found it a relatively sane section of the community, and had a few interesting discussions every now and then. I also saw people being idiots, trolls derailing topics, etc. Anonymous message boards don't automatically equal = bad attitudes, crappy posting, and the like, but it's more likely to happen there than anyplace else on the internet.

Discourse and attitudes tend to become more civil as people feel more accountable for their actions and words. This is a trend, not an absolute - there will be outliers either way. But whereas you dismiss it all as "sticks and stones," I think you'll find that in some cases it has a genuine effect - and why should we encourage it?

I remember when /b/ was the only board on 4chan. You know what caused it to become such a shithole? Popularity. As more and more people flooded in, fewer and fewer of them had a even a single thought in their head. A forum/imageboard/whatever is it's users.

Also, this being the internet, anything that offends should be encouraged. The more you're exposed to something, the less it affects you.

 

[John Funk]

Yes, and hmm, why do you suppose he said that, yes? Maybe because 2ch has its fair share of assholes and dickweeds, too? So it isn't a bastion of polite discourse? Yes, he was held accountable for what he said. Good, he should have been.

See, I (used to) regularly post on 4chan's /m/, because I like mecha, found it a relatively sane section of the community, and had a few interesting discussions every now and then. I also saw people being idiots, trolls derailing topics, etc. Anonymous message boards don't automatically equal = bad attitudes, crappy posting, and the like, but it's more likely to happen there than anyplace else on the internet.

Discourse and attitudes tend to become more civil as people feel more accountable for their actions and words. This is a trend, not an absolute - there will be outliers either way. But whereas you dismiss it all as "sticks and stones," I think you'll find that in some cases it has a genuine effect - and why should we encourage it?

I remember when /b/ was the only board on 4chan. You know what caused it to become such a shithole? Popularity. As more and more people flooded in, fewer and fewer of them had a even a single thought in their head. A forum/imageboard/whatever is it's users.

Also, this being the internet, anything that offends should be encouraged. The more you're exposed to something, the less it affects you.

Sorry, I think that's absolute, to be polite, bunk. Or, rather, if you're going to expose people to it, at least do it where you can get punched in the face and understand the real-world consequences for actions.

Spoiler: Compression algorithm 275-A engaged

Sorry. I believe assholes should be held accountable for their actions. Saying "but they do awesome stuff, too" isn't an excuse.

What exactly does "held accountable" mean?

Do you believe girls deserve to be stalked because they are girls? Do you believe people should be threatened or have their property vandalized because they have the same name as a child molester?

Or more directly related to the discussion do you believe nobody can contribute to a World of Warcraft forum discussion unless they are max level, have a 2k+ arena rating, have gear score > x? Because that is the "accountability" that currently exists in the WoW forums. Post on an alt and a lot of the responses are "post on your main". Post on your main and it is "lol 1200". (or whatever the hell those numbers mean now, haven't played since BC)

So what does accountability mean other than maybe you will scare off the maybe 5% of the most timid trolls and 100% of the girls?

You can already ignore people whose comments you don't think contribute. I do it all the time. If the presence of a troll derails a thread then that thread couldn't have been that meaningful to begin with.

...it means exactly what I said. If someone says something racist, if someone says something creepy (in your example about stalking girls, a "tits or gtfo," for instance), if somebody just says "lol 1200," then you know who they are. They have to accept responsibility for what they say.

I posted a question in another thread that has yet to be answered, and I'll posit it to you, John.

Suppose I say something absoultely nasty to you in a forum where real names are displayed. Nothing racist/sexist or legally actionable, but heavily insulting nonetheless. You have my real name. What do you do with it?

If Jesse Finkelstein says something nasty to me on an Internet site, I'm not going to be terribly inclined to care. Big friggin' deal. It's not like I'm going to call his parents, his principal, etc. and tell them just what a snot-faced jerk little Jesse is. I really don't have the time or interest. But if Jesse is supremely offended by something I say, to him or someone else- even if there was nothing intended- well, he's got my name and a good lead on causing me grief. And unless he deliberately posts something threatening to me in return, or slips up some other way, how am I supposed to know it's him?

You say "assholes should get what they deserve". Everyone's an asshole in someone else's eyes at some point.

My primary issue with this whole "real name" thing is that, yes, it will cut down on Internet trolling, for all the wrong reasons. No troll worthy of the term is going to bother exposing his real name on a forum- not when there's so many regular people out there doing it that he can harrass in real life, untracably. To me, not worth it, never will be.

"The Rogue Wolf" is not The Rogue Wolf's real name, but it's the best you lot are going to get.

I do nothing with it. But now your real name is forever attached to that message for all of your friends and family to ever see if they google your name. Hope you're proud of it.

And even if they never DO Google your name, before you post it, you'll know that it'll be out there as coming from you, in public. People who read it will think (Jeez, that (Name) is such a dick). The odds are, you won't post it in the first place thinking about that. Discourse improves as people start to feel accountable for their actions. This isn't something I'm just making up.

Which brings up the issue of accounts being hacked, and someone putting words in my virtual mouth that end up indelibly recorded on the Internet. And still nobody's addressing the potential of people being harrassed, attacked, etc. by those "outside the system", whose names aren't anywhere near the forums in question. How is "more civil online discourse" worth that? I'd be too afraid to post anything more specific than "yes" or "no" in a forum like that for the worry that some nutcase somewhere would take offense and make my life difficult. And I like to think that, in the two and a half years I've been on the Escapist, I've proven that I have no troll-like tendencies.

A silence born from fear of unreasonable retaliation is not civil discourse.

[small]I do hope you know, John, that I'm not attacking you over this in some way. I just simply cannot at all understand your mindset about a subject important to me, so I'm going to keep questioning it until either one of us changes his mind or we hit an "agree to disagree" impasse.[/small]

Get an authenticator, problem solved.

...and I addressed the "outside the system" in the actual column.

 

[commasplice]

Get an authenticator, problem solved.

Alright, well, I've seen you tackle this problem from a number of logical standpoints, so how about a more...emotional one. Let's assume, for a second, that Blizzard actually went through with this and it did noticeably reduce trolling on the forums. At the same time, though, many legitimate members stop contributing, for fear of harassment, or what have you.

Is it really okay for Blizzard to punish everyone for the sake of trying out a bizarrely unorthodox solution to a problem that they could attempt to fix in an number of other ways that wouldn't cause a massive amount of their customers to just up and leave? Is it okay for Katie's stalker to have access to her name? What if, like others have suggested, he doesn't PM her, but he does scour around for her on Facebook and MySpace? He's never actually identified as a stalker, but he still gets to do his stalky business. Even if the scenario isn't taken to its extreme and he doesn't hunt her down in person or anything, are you, personally, alright with people like Katie taking one for the team for the sake of less "Twilight is gay" threads?

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

And even if they never DO Google your name, before you post it, you'll know that it'll be out there as coming from you, in public. People who read it will think (Jeez, that (Name) is such a dick). The odds are, you won't post it in the first place thinking about that. Discourse improves as people start to feel accountable for their actions. This isn't something I'm just making up.

I'm a bit confused about your actual position on this, are you saying there isn't any situation where anonymous speech is appropriate or just not on WoW forums?

Anonymity is necessary when your position is unpopular. What you are advocating is basically censorship through fear of retaliation or to put it more directly mob rule. A person can't take a position on a controversial issue because chances are someone with power over them has taken the opposite position.

As an example I think all cops should be recorded in audio and video while on duty to prevent abuse of power. But I would never attach many name to that position statement of fear of retaliation.

All of the examples you gave previously are ALREADY against the very general terms of service of no posting obscene, vulgar, racist, sexist or (my favourite) objectionable content. Instead of ineffective and dangerous real name outing why don't you advocate for stricter TOS enforcement (something I don't agree with either but at least it doesn't potentially harm anyone.)

 

[squid5580]

Snip.

Snap.

I couldn't help but notice that you both have Kirby avatars, and that you both had similar arguments against abolishing WoW forum anonymity. Sirs, please step out of the vehicle. I'm going to need to see some Real ID and proof of post sincerity.

Googling squid5580 will net you more results than my actual name lol. I still haven't found me yet

 

[wonkify]

It is too bad Blizzard punked out, especially as the WOW cesspool forums are nominally owned or controlled by them. Even if it was only partially successful, it probably would have been an improvement appreciated by the less destructive of their membership.

Let's be honest, accountability works. Does anyone have the slightest doubt Mel Gibson would have indulged in his latest rant if he didn't, mistakenly it turns out, believe he was speaking privately?

How much more intense when it's internet level anonymity?

As it is now, good people choose to be anonymous to enjoy some level of distance FROM the troglodytes on the web. That makes it feel like the slags are winning, doesn't it?

That said, the WOW universe, based on fantasy avatars that people use to escape and geek out from their real lives must be the absolute worst place to start such a trend. Unless those suspicious this was simply a botched first step toward a Blizz-Book type social site are correct, this really would have flown up their members noses.

 

[squid5580]

Yes, and hmm, why do you suppose he said that, yes? Maybe because 2ch has its fair share of assholes and dickweeds, too? So it isn't a bastion of polite discourse? Yes, he was held accountable for what he said. Good, he should have been.

See, I (used to) regularly post on 4chan's /m/, because I like mecha, found it a relatively sane section of the community, and had a few interesting discussions every now and then. I also saw people being idiots, trolls derailing topics, etc. Anonymous message boards don't automatically equal = bad attitudes, crappy posting, and the like, but it's more likely to happen there than anyplace else on the internet.

Discourse and attitudes tend to become more civil as people feel more accountable for their actions and words. This is a trend, not an absolute - there will be outliers either way. But whereas you dismiss it all as "sticks and stones," I think you'll find that in some cases it has a genuine effect - and why should we encourage it?

I remember when /b/ was the only board on 4chan. You know what caused it to become such a shithole? Popularity. As more and more people flooded in, fewer and fewer of them had a even a single thought in their head. A forum/imageboard/whatever is it's users.

Also, this being the internet, anything that offends should be encouraged. The more you're exposed to something, the less it affects you.

Sorry, I think that's absolute, to be polite, bunk. Or, rather, if you're going to expose people to it, at least do it where you can get punched in the face and understand the real-world consequences for actions.

Spoiler: Compression algorithm 275-A engaged

Sorry. I believe assholes should be held accountable for their actions. Saying "but they do awesome stuff, too" isn't an excuse.

What exactly does "held accountable" mean?

Do you believe girls deserve to be stalked because they are girls? Do you believe people should be threatened or have their property vandalized because they have the same name as a child molester?

Or more directly related to the discussion do you believe nobody can contribute to a World of Warcraft forum discussion unless they are max level, have a 2k+ arena rating, have gear score > x? Because that is the "accountability" that currently exists in the WoW forums. Post on an alt and a lot of the responses are "post on your main". Post on your main and it is "lol 1200". (or whatever the hell those numbers mean now, haven't played since BC)

So what does accountability mean other than maybe you will scare off the maybe 5% of the most timid trolls and 100% of the girls?

You can already ignore people whose comments you don't think contribute. I do it all the time. If the presence of a troll derails a thread then that thread couldn't have been that meaningful to begin with.

...it means exactly what I said. If someone says something racist, if someone says something creepy (in your example about stalking girls, a "tits or gtfo," for instance), if somebody just says "lol 1200," then you know who they are. They have to accept responsibility for what they say.

I posted a question in another thread that has yet to be answered, and I'll posit it to you, John.

Suppose I say something absoultely nasty to you in a forum where real names are displayed. Nothing racist/sexist or legally actionable, but heavily insulting nonetheless. You have my real name. What do you do with it?

If Jesse Finkelstein says something nasty to me on an Internet site, I'm not going to be terribly inclined to care. Big friggin' deal. It's not like I'm going to call his parents, his principal, etc. and tell them just what a snot-faced jerk little Jesse is. I really don't have the time or interest. But if Jesse is supremely offended by something I say, to him or someone else- even if there was nothing intended- well, he's got my name and a good lead on causing me grief. And unless he deliberately posts something threatening to me in return, or slips up some other way, how am I supposed to know it's him?

You say "assholes should get what they deserve". Everyone's an asshole in someone else's eyes at some point.

My primary issue with this whole "real name" thing is that, yes, it will cut down on Internet trolling, for all the wrong reasons. No troll worthy of the term is going to bother exposing his real name on a forum- not when there's so many regular people out there doing it that he can harrass in real life, untracably. To me, not worth it, never will be.

"The Rogue Wolf" is not The Rogue Wolf's real name, but it's the best you lot are going to get.

I do nothing with it. But now your real name is forever attached to that message for all of your friends and family to ever see if they google your name. Hope you're proud of it.

And even if they never DO Google your name, before you post it, you'll know that it'll be out there as coming from you, in public. People who read it will think (Jeez, that (Name) is such a dick). The odds are, you won't post it in the first place thinking about that. Discourse improves as people start to feel accountable for their actions. This isn't something I'm just making up.

Which brings up the issue of accounts being hacked, and someone putting words in my virtual mouth that end up indelibly recorded on the Internet. And still nobody's addressing the potential of people being harrassed, attacked, etc. by those "outside the system", whose names aren't anywhere near the forums in question. How is "more civil online discourse" worth that? I'd be too afraid to post anything more specific than "yes" or "no" in a forum like that for the worry that some nutcase somewhere would take offense and make my life difficult. And I like to think that, in the two and a half years I've been on the Escapist, I've proven that I have no troll-like tendencies.

A silence born from fear of unreasonable retaliation is not civil discourse.

[small]I do hope you know, John, that I'm not attacking you over this in some way. I just simply cannot at all understand your mindset about a subject important to me, so I'm going to keep questioning it until either one of us changes his mind or we hit an "agree to disagree" impasse.[/small]

Get an authenticator, problem solved.

...and I addressed the "outside the system" in the actual column.

I am sorry but where did you address this? The only thing I saw that came close to addressing that issue (and it is the major issue here) was "oh Katie's friends can see her WOW stalker". But can she and her friends see him outside her bedroom window? And that is just the tip of the iceburg. DO you honestly believe a good stalker will just keep it in WOW? Or even start it there? Or even some asshole who is now not anonymous will keep the trolling to the forums when he or she finds out your fave color is blue which they think everyone should love purple? Sure it will make the Blizzard forums a better place. What about everywhere else? Not to mention the collateral damage of people who have the same name as the trolls. Or the victims. A quick google search of John Smith brings up some retard post on the forums. My name is John Smith but I have never played WOW before. All of a sudden my name is tied to that and I have no way of disproving it. And I am the one getting 3am pizza deliveries while the asshole who deserves it is kicking back sleeping.

 

[squid5580]

It is too bad Blizzard punked out, especially as the WOW cesspool forums are nominally owned or controlled by them. Even if it was only partially successful, it probably would have been an improvement appreciated by the less destructive of their membership.

Let's be honest, accountability works. Does anyone have the slightest doubt Mel Gibson would have indulged in his latest rant if he didn't, mistakenly it turns out, believe he was speaking privately?

How much more intense when it's internet level anonymity?

As it is now, good people choose to be anonymous to enjoy some level of distance FROM the troglodytes on the web. That makes it feel like the slags are winning, doesn't it?

How would giving them our names help? They have already established the fact they are assholes. It just means they can't be assholes there. It also gives them more information to be assholes in other ways. In places where there is no moderators (like their forums apparently).

 

[Aurgelmir]

an excellent post on Metafilter outlined the potential problems with the change.

The problem with that "article" in my mind is that is by itself rather sexist.
On the one hand she is advocating that most girls in WoW are stereotyped, and at the same time she repeatedly seem to do the same to men herself. Sure she does start off saying a lot of people are not assholes, be the way she presents herself later on makes a whole other subject.

Although a lot of her points are very valid, and I do agree with most of it, it is also based on some "wrongs" it seem at times.

She states that she "... got daily messages from people I didn't know because they liked my forum posts."

This would actually stop with the "new" system, because they were actually letting you opt out of showing your character next to your real name.

And this brings me to my reason for why I thought the real names was a bad idea:

Flamers and trolls on the forums post using "forum alts" so that they will not be held accountable. Sure there are a few who aren't even that smart and post on their mains, but "forum alts" are very common.

So why do they use forum alts? Well its sort of to avoid getting all those in game mails as the metafilter article talks about. It's basically a way to not having to be accountable for what they say.

Sure linking a real name to the post would make some people think twice, but the posts would still not be linked to their character. And ultimately that is what I think makes "forum alts" so "important" to some people.

With a forum alt I can be AURGELMIR the great raider, who's respected and revered in his wow community, the guy every guy wants to be, and every girl wants to be with (which I am not)
But then with my "forum alt" I can be MIRLEGRAU the scourge of the forums, where all filth I spawn makes the guys want to kill me and the girls warn their daughters about. (I am not this either)

And the beauty of this is that I can spawn as much bile I want without loosing my great standing in game.

In the end I think accountability must be held for your in game life, not your real life, since it is in game your actions on the forums might be the most noted.

 

[DanDeFool]

I think the best point on the Metafilter post JF referenced is that Blizzard would have been changing what is an anonymous space to a non-anonymous one. People are obviously going to have a problem if you are going to completely change the rules of the space when that's not what everyone signed up for.

This one point is reason enough for Blizzard not to force Real ID onto their forums; unless they figured a way to wipe the slate clean and start over without pissing off their customer base (i.e. without deleting everything on the forums up to that point).

 

[Keava]

In the end I think accountability must be held for your in game life, not your real life, since it is in game your actions on the forums might be the most noted.

That's one of biggest issues i do have with the whole RealID. Why did someone even considered that linking Real Name to in-game characters is good idea for community sake. I still fail to see any reason above "We want to build our own community network like facebook".

There is plenty of issues with the whole Battle.NEt 2.0 system, many of them seem to show that Blizzard is more keen on acquiring the more casual part of gaming world than keeping their fanbase. From strictly money point of view it is great decision, fans are limited supply so it is better to invest in new customers, but same time it may hurt what made Blizzard games so popular.

Starcraft wasn't a great RTS because it was innovative, WC3 wasn't so popular just because it was fun to play it alone. It was the competitive part of community that made it what it is today. Sure many of them will still play the game, but no LAN parties, very limited map making approach that renders projects like DotA impossible (10mb limit / map, 20 mb total map limit and censorship), and forcing people to be stuck with single account is not what the fanbase asked for.

On-line i see people through their aliases they decided to use, their names mean little to me unless i want to take it step further. But for such things i have IMs like MSN or even Steam, where i can easily keep both closer and further friends, managing by myself who knows how much about me.

I just think RealID project in general would work much better if it would allow more control from the user side. Let me in options check which of the options available there i want to use, let me set different privileges for my friends. It would be really awesome service if i could lets say let 2-3 of my friends see me cross-game, another few only in single game, and the rest just on single character or server. Flexibility should be the keyword, not All or Nothing.

 

[Aurgelmir]

In the end I think accountability must be held for your in game life, not your real life, since it is in game your actions on the forums might be the most noted.

That's one of biggest issues i do have with the whole RealID. Why did someone even considered that linking Real Name to in-game characters is good idea for community sake. I still fail to see any reason above "We want to build our own community network like facebook".

There is plenty of issues with the whole Battle.NEt 2.0 system, many of them seem to show that

Well you didn't have to link your character names, but if they didnt give you the option you would have a lot of people QQing that they now couldn't show off their character

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Taking the anonymity out of Penny Arcade's famous theory just leaves you with a normal person and an audience.

The last time you went into a post office or the bank, were you treated like a paying customer?

Or were you treated like another prole?

I honestly don't think that the emphasis should be on the anonymity because that isn't what drives our trolls. It's the LULZ, as they themselves put it. Simply adding a name to them won't decrease their power unless you can increase their accountability for their actions. And names simply won't do it.

Look back at the guy who's serving you. Look at that pretty namebadge they're forced to wear. The one that says "Happy To Help".

Do you really think they are? Do you think that if they met you on the street they'd bend over backwards to help?

Much as I believe in the altruism of the human race, I think it's the pressure of being on display all the time that forces them to be ingratiating at work and contemptuous outside of work. And these guys have their name on them ALL the time.

View From the Road: Where Everybody Knows Your Name

What's Norm's second name? Does anyone care?

Because with his "RealID"; he sits, insults and drinks his savings away.

Sort of like those Internet Trolls.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit: Sorry, that was unconstructive to that point.

If we want to bring our Trolls to bear, then we have to make them responsible to the community, rather than the forum holders. 4chan, and I can't believe I'm defending them, has its own policies where posters of CP get shown the door pretty quickly as there's an honour among trolls as well as thieves.
The biggest problem that WoW has, I believe, is that its community is a lot more Troll-like than they ever want to imagine. And the troll threads are what a lot of the community want to see more of.

Look at Leeroy Jenkins: RealID - BenSchulz

 

[PlasticTree]

Fact: the most interesting part of this column is the discussion that followed. And the column wasn't that bad either.

 

[John Funk]

I am sorry but where did you address this? The only thing I saw that came close to addressing that issue (and it is the major issue here) was "oh Katie's friends can see her WOW stalker". But can she and her friends see him outside her bedroom window? And that is just the tip of the iceburg. DO you honestly believe a good stalker will just keep it in WOW? Or even start it there? Or even some asshole who is now not anonymous will keep the trolling to the forums when he or she finds out your fave color is blue which they think everyone should love purple? Sure it will make the Blizzard forums a better place. What about everywhere else? Not to mention the collateral damage of people who have the same name as the trolls. Or the victims. A quick google search of John Smith brings up some retard post on the forums. My name is John Smith but I have never played WOW before. All of a sudden my name is tied to that and I have no way of disproving it. And I am the one getting 3am pizza deliveries while the asshole who deserves it is kicking back sleeping.

The part where I said that it's a problem and that it can't ever work wholly as long as there are people outside of the system? Did you not read the third page at all?

And even if they never DO Google your name, before you post it, you'll know that it'll be out there as coming from you, in public. People who read it will think (Jeez, that (Name) is such a dick). The odds are, you won't post it in the first place thinking about that. Discourse improves as people start to feel accountable for their actions. This isn't something I'm just making up.

I'm a bit confused about your actual position on this, are you saying there isn't any situation where anonymous speech is appropriate or just not on WoW forums?

Anonymity is necessary when your position is unpopular. What you are advocating is basically censorship through fear of retaliation or to put it more directly mob rule. A person can't take a position on a controversial issue because chances are someone with power over them has taken the opposite position.

As an example I think all cops should be recorded in audio and video while on duty to prevent abuse of power. But I would never attach many name to that position statement of fear of retaliation.

All of the examples you gave previously are ALREADY against the very general terms of service of no posting obscene, vulgar, racist, sexist or (my favourite) objectionable content. Instead of ineffective and dangerous real name outing why don't you advocate for stricter TOS enforcement (something I don't agree with either but at least it doesn't potentially harm anyone.)

...okay, I really want to know how you're making the leap in logic from me saying "Man, wouldn't it be nice if teenage dickheads on Xbox Live were held accountable for the racist and derogatory bullshit that they spew" to me apparently saying "Protest is bad and everyone should fall in line and never criticize power."

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

...okay, I really want to know how you're making the leap in logic from me saying "Man, wouldn't it be nice if teenage dickheads on Xbox Live were held accountable for the racist and derogatory bullshit that they spew" to me apparently saying "Protest is bad and everyone should fall in line and never criticize power."

The dickheads on xbox live are already violating the terms of service. They are anonymous to you but they aren't anonymous to MS. I know of at least one instance where a dude was nailed for making a school shooting threat over Live. I think your problem is that the terms are only enforced haphazardly and only for the most egregious violations. But, like all freedoms, the fact that some people abuse it doesn't justify taking anonymity away from everyone.

You never said protest was bad and I never said you said it. You said you want people "held accountable" for their words without defining what that meant. The only logical conclusion is that you want anyone you says something "objectionable" to be "punished" until everyone is afraid of saying anything "objectionable". I'm using quotes for terms which nobody has defined.

If you aren't anonymous then the only way to protect yourself is to constantly guard your words for how they will be seen both now and in the future. Once you start doing that you stop being creative and clever and controversial. And then you start championing conformist positions because those are the only positions which you can safely publicly support.

So while you didn't explicitly say you were against protest the first step to suppressing dissent is to separate the troublemakers from the sheep. And real names are a great method of doing that.

 

[Rilias]

I would advise against taking the position of "It doesn't bother me to lose my anonymity so it shouldn't bother anyone else. It will only bother those who had the intent to abuse it.", which I see many people take on this discussion.
There are legitimate reasons to want to remain anonymous and this is widely recognized even by the law. Shamus gave a relevant angle on this in his weekly feature.

The main point about accountability is of course a valid one, but I have trouble seeing the necessity of realID to achieve this. In my mind the trolls and griefers should be held accountable by Blizzard in accordance with whatever their ToS deems to be the correct course of action. And I would have no problem with forum violations leading to bans of the entire account not just forum bans.

Since The Escapist forums, among many other forums out there, seem to handle this just fine I can't help but feel that evoking realID to solve this problem is a bit of a cop-out on Blizzards side. Of course other benefits that are not so easy to market positively will likely have skewed their decision in favor of trying this

In essence I think realID is the wrong tool for the job, even if it would probably work.

PS: The argument that one can opt out of realID by avoiding the forums is weak at best.
You can also opt out of realID by canceling your WoW subscription, but if you don't want that your dislike of realID is a valid concern nonetheless.

 

[machvergil]

My problem with RealID has always been more an internet security issue than a privacy issue. I mean yes, I understand the privacy arguments, but I'm far more concerned about the fact that your Battle.net account and RealID make it so that I'm supposed to be willingly handing out my Real name and a valid e-mail address I use to anyone who ends up in a Starcraft Match or WoW instance with me, and once that person has that information, so does anyone on their RealID list. Spammers and identity thieves have never had easier access to that much of your personal information through a video game before, and as members of the WoW community pointed out, that information is more than enough to spam google to find out nearly anything about you the internet can tell them.

The attachment with Facebook is even more worrying. FB has already proven that it is an insecure identity theft racket and now you have the option of attaching your Blizzard stuff to it too. Your WoW characters are now a Facebook hack away from being stolen. Have a nice day.

 

[Sartan0]

I think the best point on the Metafilter post JF referenced is that Blizzard would have been changing what is an anonymous space to a non-anonymous one. People are obviously going to have a problem if you are going to completely change the rules of the space when that's not what everyone signed up for.

This one point is reason enough for Blizzard not to force Real ID onto their forums; unless they figured a way to wipe the slate clean and start over without pissing off their customer base (i.e. without deleting everything on the forums up to that point).

That is a very good point. People don't like the rules changing on them particularly in this case where they might have said something years ago and now it is in front of a unintended audience at the touch of a few buttons.

 

[John Funk]

My problem with RealID has always been more an internet security issue than a privacy issue. I mean yes, I understand the privacy arguments, but I'm far more concerned about the fact that your Battle.net account and RealID make it so that I'm supposed to be willingly handing out my Real name and a valid e-mail address I use to anyone who ends up in a Starcraft Match or WoW instance with me, and once that person has that information, so does anyone on their RealID list. Spammers and identity thieves have never had easier access to that much of your personal information through a video game before, and as members of the WoW community pointed out, that information is more than enough to spam google to find out nearly anything about you the internet can tell them.

The attachment with Facebook is even more worrying. FB has already proven that it is an insecure identity theft racket and now you have the option of attaching your Blizzard stuff to it too. Your WoW characters are now a Facebook hack away from being stolen. Have a nice day.

It's not a bad point about identity theft in general, but Blizzard HAS discussed just shipping authenticators with copies of the game. That'd go a long way to making your Blizzard accounts unhackable.