Villains you felt sympathy for, but felt you weren't meant to?

[mParadox]

Cesare Borgia in Assassins Creed Brotherhood. It's the voice acting man. He sounds so... wounded in the last scenes of the game. 3':

 

[Slythernite]

Chronicle Spoiler

Spoiler

I felt terrible for Andrew at the end of the movie, but I felt the viewers sympathy was supposed to disappear by then.

 

[Darkgoosey666]

Another song of Ice and fire one here- Jaime Lannister

Spoiler

So Jaime Lannister, or 'The Kingslayer' is pretty much reviled throughout the land because he broke his oath to the king and murdered him. King Aerys, whom Jaime was sworn to protect, named jaime to his kingsguard purely to rob Tywin of his heir, and did not hide this at all. King Aerys was known as the mad king for a reason- he burned countless people alive and seemed to get pleasure from it. He was cruel, weak, and paranoid. When Jaime killed him it was undoubtedly his finest act as a knight, as King Aerys planned on blowing up kings landing when he knew the war was lost. From then on his every action is twisted into the worst possible light due to his reputation as an oathbreaker. It saddens me that people hate him

 

[Thurston]

General Knox from Borderlands. He came across as a battle-scarred veteran, tired, fatigued, exhausted from a long life fighting a stupid-stupid bureaucratic-nepotism organization. When he said something like, "And.. oh yeah,nothing personal, I'm gonna kill you," my reaction was, "Okay, I understand." One vet to another. Nothing personal.

In fact, I think he's glad to finally fight you, because you might be able to actually kill him!

When he shows up again, I considered it a bit of a point of honour to take him out again, one professional to another.

Princess Azula from Avatar: The Last Airbender. She was a great villain through Season 2 and 3, showing intelligence, political savvy, combat prowess and outright power. But, her father valued her as a tool for his ambitions, nothing more. When she shows some hint of human vulnerability, or some need for affection or validation as a daughter, rather than as a general, she's reprimanded and in her view, horribly punished.

Funny that both Azula and Zuko are both victims to their father's ambitions. One delayed it for a while by being really good at kicking ass.

 

[Byere]

-snip-

You've forgotten a certain hedonistic murdering cannibalistic psychopathic mad scientist who who does a little anal spooning with his recently created mentally handicapped frankenstein.[/quote]

Nothing wrong with that... I felt sorry for him when he died...

 

[Beliyal]

Azula from Avatar the Last Airbender. Thought she was the most awesome character, felt kinda sad when she lost in the end.
Loki from the viking mythology, and in the movie. Hes not evil, hes just mischievous.

Well maybe he started out as mischievous, but he definitely takes a turn for the worse in Mythology. How else can you explain killing Baldur?

A practical joke gone bad. Baldur was the "golden child", completely perfect. And then he becomes invincible. Loki wants to take him down a peg, but unfortunately Baldur dies instead of being grievously wounded.

I don't think that gives Loki an excuse. His "practical jokes" go from inappropriate to horrible, and no matter how we call them, I certainly can't view Loki just as a trickster, nor can I say that being a trickster gives him a free pass from being called evil. Granted, he's not evil in the usual sense, it's just that he is careless and selfish and his actions often harm other people, whether he intended it or not. However, that's why he's a type of a villain we can sympathize with. Loki also did some good stuff in mythology and he wasn't completely evil as some mythological figures. Still, he shows his true face at a crucial time, during Ragnarok, when he fights against the gods.

All this said, I find Loki as an incredibly interesting mythological figure. And I did sympathize with him in Thor and Avengers, although I shouldn't have. Most of my bias against Loki comes from his mythological background though, I don't know what happens to him in the comics as I didn't read them. But due to mythology, it feels hard to find his excuse, despite everything that happened to him and despite sympathizing with him (which is partially due to Hiddleston's marvellous performance of this character).

Other than Loki, I sympathize with a lot of villains actually, even though I always see their faults and what they did horribly wrong. Most recent example is Amon from Legend of Korra (although, I believe we were meant to sympathize with him). And while we're in the same universe, Azula as well, as you also mentioned.

 

[Pinkamena]

Another song of Ice and fire one here- Jaime Lannister

Spoiler

So Jaime Lannister, or 'The Kingslayer' is pretty much reviled throughout the land because he broke his oath to the king and murdered him. King Aerys, whom Jaime was sworn to protect, named jaime to his kingsguard purely to rob Tywin of his heir, and did not hide this at all. King Aerys was known as the mad king for a reason- he burned countless people alive and seemed to get pleasure from it. He was cruel, weak, and paranoid. When Jaime killed him it was undoubtedly his finest act as a knight, as King Aerys planned on blowing up kings landing when he knew the war was lost. From then on his every action is twisted into the worst possible light due to his reputation as an oathbreaker. It saddens me that people hate him

Well, the show did a good job of making him likeable though.

 

[Rariow]

Henry Lawson from Mass Effect. He's supposed to be EVIIIIL for having created a genetically perfect daughter and bringing her up to suceed him in his massively profitable business. Erm... what? How is that evil in any way? Especially considering Miranda ends up betraying his trust and shooting him when Shepard had JUST promised no one would shoot him.

Also, the Darkspawn from how far I've gotten into Dragon Age: Origins. I mean, these were mages who got a little cocky. Surely turning into an army of demons destroying the land and having to watch as your body does these horrible, horrible things (I don't think it's ever said, but for some reason I get the feeling their consciousness never goes away) is pretty harsh for their crime (This is lessened by it being implied that there were less mages than there are Darkspawn, so some are just demons, and the whole conscience-still-intact thing is my interpretation, and never stated). Also, the guys guarding the urn of ashes. They're just doing what they think is their religious duty and I come in and slaughter them all for it? Bit jerkish.

 

[Erttheking]

Henry Lawson from Mass Effect. He's supposed to be EVIIIIL for having created a genetically perfect daughter and bringing her up to suceed him in his massively profitable business. Erm... what? How is that evil in any way? Especially considering Miranda ends up betraying his trust and shooting him when Shepard had JUST promised no one would shoot him.

Also, the Darkspawn from how far I've gotten into Dragon Age: Origins. I mean, these were mages who got a little cocky. Surely turning into an army of demons destroying the land and having to watch as your body does these horrible, horrible things (I don't think it's ever said, but for some reason I get the feeling their consciousness never goes away) is pretty harsh for their crime (This is lessened by it being implied that there were less mages than there are Darkspawn, so some are just demons, and the whole conscience-still-intact thing is my interpretation, and never stated). Also, the guys guarding the urn of ashes. They're just doing what they think is their religious duty and I come in and slaughter them all for it? Bit jerkish.

I think that had something to do with him using thousands of humans as unwilling test subjects and turning them into husks and using a refugee camp as a front. That's pretty douchcey. Also he basically made it so that Miranda couldn't get pregnant and it was implied that he was emotionally abusive to her.

 

[Darkgoosey666]

Another song of Ice and fire one here- Jaime Lannister

Spoiler

So Jaime Lannister, or 'The Kingslayer' is pretty much reviled throughout the land because he broke his oath to the king and murdered him. King Aerys, whom Jaime was sworn to protect, named jaime to his kingsguard purely to rob Tywin of his heir, and did not hide this at all. King Aerys was known as the mad king for a reason- he burned countless people alive and seemed to get pleasure from it. He was cruel, weak, and paranoid. When Jaime killed him it was undoubtedly his finest act as a knight, as King Aerys planned on blowing up kings landing when he knew the war was lost. From then on his every action is twisted into the worst possible light due to his reputation as an oathbreaker. It saddens me that people hate him

Well, the show did a good job of making him likeable though.

yeah pleased with how the show handled him, he's my favourite character <3

 

[Zoraste]

The Sith are a big one for me. Since the Jedi's position is basically, "What is this thinking for yourself? Emotion? Pah!" and the Sith's seems to be, "I kind of like emotion to be honest." Plus there's the whole "bringing balance to the force" thing that suggests the Sith are just as valuable to the force as the Jedi. Not that Lucas would ever think that making a well thought out argument that makes his films much more mature part of the canon would be a good idea.

If you're still not understanding why I would like the Sith, this is the Jedi Code:
There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.

Whereas the Sith Code is this:
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

The Sith one is just better.

You must have missed the part where they're massmurdering lunatics? Now the jedis are pretty much as far from good guys as you can get (see knights of the old republic by Dark Horse), but that doesn't make the Sith any less evil. There are dark and grey jedi however who can be quite sympathetic.

I've heard arguments about Palpatine being sympathetic with the whole "create a safe and functional society" but he cracks a few too many eggs along the way.

And when the Sith code is explained, what it actually means pretty much boils down to "kill people, it's better for you, and them, and the rest of society. Plus it's fun! And don't forget the torture".

Well yeah, they're obviously still bad guys, but I can see why someone would pick them over the Jedi quite easily. Especially since it would in theory be possible to be a Sith without being evil.

It is possible, but very difficult. The Dark Side is a lot like Chaos from Warhammer 40K, in that it is an easy road to power fueled by unchecked emotion, but it also poisons your mind the more you rely on it, so more and more extreme and evil actions seem more and more acceptable, until eventually you don't even realize you're slaughtering your friends, and the part of you that does is the tiny fragment of what you used to be screaming forever in the darkest part of your mind.

In a way, Jedi who fall to the Dark Side and those lured to Chaos are some of the most pitiable of villains, since the good men and women they once were are turned rotten and corrupt by the very power they hope to use.

 

[VeryOddGamer]

The Suul'Ka from Sword of The Stars. I mean, dying because you don't have enough room to live must be really frustrating. Yeah, they did murder and brainwash their own children, but trying to live forever because you really can is a pretty good motivation.
Also,

Spoiler

Sun LI

from Jade Empire. I mean, he's really just reclaiming what belongs to him.

 

[lee1287]

Tom and Jerry.

JERRY IS A DOUCHE! I mean, seriously. Hate that Damn Mouse!

Also, Locust from Gears. To an extent.

 

[renegade7]

I always felt rather bad for the Space Pirates in Metroid. Except for what the occasional snippet of text in the manual or in a scan tells you, it often seems very clear that they are just trying to defend themselves from what basically seems like a crazy woman hell bent on murdering them.

And Wheatley...I felt terrible about Wheatley

 

[Wintermoot]

the Principality of Zeon (maybe it,s cheating since it,s more of a ideology rather then one vilian)
excluding the "New Types are better" ideology they weren't really that bad in their goals simply wanting independence from Earth. Until Char/Neo Zeon almost committed genocide in CCA/UC 0093.

 

[3aqua]

Frank from M*A*S*H

 

[Angryranter101]

Galbatorix from Eragon.
Dude is hardly ever mentioned, we never actually SEE him doing anything evil. How do I know he did everything he's rumored to do? Maybe it's all just dragon rider propaganda.

Maybe he has a renegade general on the loose and that's why his minions are slaughtering villages.

(Apparently he does something evil in the final book, which I haven't read, but could probably chalk up to a nervous breakdown due to the heroes bugging him so much).

It's his minions I felt sorry for. I only ever saw the film but we see some young men being taken off to join the evil army as part of his horde and they seem really upset. it's a tithe from every village not an evil test that these soldiers all pass before recruitment. But no, it's just "Woo-hoo, burn the baddies in red! I have a dragon so I'm special and fighting with a hot girl in the resistance! Take that ex-farmhands, take that common labourers!" also, using dark magic seems like a bullshit reason to be evil. He has ugly looking things in his army, so what, you ride a dragon which are in biblical terms, the manifestation of evil. Who's to say he's better or worse than anyone else and to my mind, it was a matter of a power struggle he started with his dragons. But then again, it was only after they'd basically won if I remember right, and so those were bound to happen or at least it granted regional stability. Better one tough ruler than a dozen petty states all with dragons and warriors who are known as the "chosen one". So what if you kill your teacher? Certainly ended the dragon combat for a while at least.

Please do correct me if I'm wrong because I'd love to snap back with a reply. I love defending the losing side.

 

[GameChanger]

Galbatorix from Eragon.
Dude is hardly ever mentioned, we never actually SEE him doing anything evil. How do I know he did everything he's rumored to do? Maybe it's all just dragon rider propaganda.

Maybe he has a renegade general on the loose and that's why his minions are slaughtering villages.

(Apparently he does something evil in the final book, which I haven't read, but could probably chalk up to a nervous breakdown due to the heroes bugging him so much).

Wasn't there this Galbatorix who seized power by killing all the dragon riders and harnessing the power of the dragons by not allowing them to die? Who then sent evil bird-people to slaughter a village in order to retrieve an egg he missed?

Must be that other guy then, lots of fellas with the name Galbatorix. Fairly common.

 

[Angryranter101]

The Sith are a big one for me. Since the Jedi's position is basically, "What is this thinking for yourself? Emotion? Pah!" and the Sith's seems to be, "I kind of like emotion to be honest." Plus there's the whole "bringing balance to the force" thing that suggests the Sith are just as valuable to the force as the Jedi. Not that Lucas would ever think that making a well thought out argument that makes his films much more mature part of the canon would be a good idea.

If you're still not understanding why I would like the Sith, this is the Jedi Code:
There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.

Whereas the Sith Code is this:
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

The Sith one is just better.

You must have missed the part where they're massmurdering lunatics? Now the jedis are pretty much as far from good guys as you can get (see knights of the old republic by Dark Horse), but that doesn't make the Sith any less evil. There are dark and grey jedi however who can be quite sympathetic.

I've heard arguments about Palpatine being sympathetic with the whole "create a safe and functional society" but he cracks a few too many eggs along the way.

And when the Sith code is explained, what it actually means pretty much boils down to "kill people, it's better for you, and them, and the rest of society. Plus it's fun! And don't forget the torture".

Well yeah, they're obviously still bad guys, but I can see why someone would pick them over the Jedi quite easily. Especially since it would in theory be possible to be a Sith without being evil.

It is possible, but very difficult. The Dark Side is a lot like Chaos from Warhammer 40K, in that it is an easy road to power fueled by unchecked emotion, but it also poisons your mind the more you rely on it, so more and more extreme and evil actions seem more and more acceptable, until eventually you don't even realize you're slaughtering your friends, and the part of you that does is the tiny fragment of what you used to be screaming forever in the darkest part of your mind.

In a way, Jedi who fall to the Dark Side and those lured to Chaos are some of the most pitiable of villains, since the good men and women they once were are turned rotten and corrupt by the very power they hope to use.

Ah yes, but then we have the definition of good and evil. To the Sith, the Jedi are evil. We have this mentioned in Episode 3 where Anikin says "In my perspective the Jedi are evil" and all Obi-Wan can say is "Then you are lost!". Pretty crap argument. You don't agree with my fundamental beliefs and so you are indefinitely wrong. One of the Sith's major fears is in fact stagnation, which the Jedi encompass, just as the Sith are against the Jedi's peace by celebrating conflict. They essentially feel that they are at their best when they are free and at their strongest when they have conflict and struggles.

I've argued it with Chaos in Warhammer before. If you live in a world where torture, killing, power struggles and betrayal are not only accepted, but actively welcomed,then surely a society that bases itself around those desires satisfies it's peoples needs. We can only see Chaos or the Sith as evil from the perspective of our own sensibilities. If they value life less than we do or power and conflict more so, then by claiming them to be evil,we proclaim only one way of thinking is correct. In the same way as the Jedi are good for achieving peace, the Sith also work towards a more beneficial state of being for everyone. It allows the personal growth according to their laws in which the weak are subject to the rule of the strong and whilst we see every life as equal, to their mind, they create a galaxy based on merit. Just as we might find the outlawing of all competitions or rankings to be awful, the Sith see the end of the natural struggle to be the ultimate decline of society. It is not selfish by creed but rather selfish by virtue of being the villain which basically means all of them are sadists who happen to follow the most conveniently opposed philosophy. Even in Sadism, we might see that they simply see it as the exploitation of power and dominance and so the fruition of their societies beliefs wherein one stronger party makes his gains through the failings of a weaker one. It is our sense of community and desire for self preservation that is fed into that which would generate a sense of repulsion from this rather than a rampant ambition which might in fact drive us towards it.

The Dark Side causing corruption is more the use of unrestrained powers from untested minds I would argue. You are either taught to make the most of your strength, or taught total restraint and self denial to the point where any release, like someone on a diet eating a whole Pizza, would simply lead to a total collapse in control once it is released. Also the idea of power corrupting is once again abhorrent only to our minds and not to the Sith.