"Virgin shaming": I know we have a lot of "but what about men's problems?" people out there.

[deleted_by_strongbad]

There will never be a point in which society doesn't have absurd double standards. There will always be people who feel inferior yet have social sway, they will demonize the traits/behaviors they are jealous of/try to scare/shame people into catering to their insecurities (like a guy worried he won't live up to a girl's previous partners so only dating "chaste" women).

On one hand though, "virgin shaming," makes sense in a primitive sort of way. Having sex is generally considered a product of being good looking, charismatic, rich, generally successful in one or more areas of your life and having that be directly confirmed by another person by them having sex with you. It seems a natural jump to use sexual prowess as a form of status as it is confirmation of some other status. Which would mean, lack of that would be a lack of status and so will be ostracized by people uncomfortable with their own perceived station.

I guess then to follow, if everyone wants to have sex for status the game of being better than others gets harder, so why not convince women of the opposite so as to increase competition to preserve your status better?

This isn't a good thing, but it will happen, because many people are insecure and yet hold influence. Personally, so long as some one doesn't carry a disease, I think the more experience the better. If you need a heart transplant, do you want a person who has never held a scalpel or a surgeon who has done a hundred+ procedures?

 

[bullet_sandw1ch]

i do not agree with your mindset, you being a feminist (i am not a woman hater, i just dont believe in the majority feminist populations methods), but i do understand where your coming from. this "jersey shore" clubbing generation (and me being in high school in this generation) has caused virginity to become a rare diamond. men and women are having too much non-procreating sex (IMO). most peoples first times now-a-days are drunken moments, in the back of the club. it has brought it to be at a point where a guy knows those trenches have been stormed, or that his pole has been polished. no one cares anymore.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

I'll try.
I can't speak for all women/feminists.
But why does `fem` mean you can't associate with it? I get called dude all the time. I play games in a male dominated environment that are specifically designed for men.

I've known many male feminists who were comfortable with the term. If you don't wanna call yourself that `equal rights activist` will do if you don't wanna associate with it. Doesn't matter what you call yourself, just matters what you do.

Its not that i cant associate with it. Its that it implies that it only fights for one group. And when i use a label to describe myself that isnt the impression i want to give since that isnt what i do. I demand equality for both sexes in every circumstance and i feel by using a gender specific term at the front it adds "favor" toward one side or the other, something i dont feel. I agree with the last part though.

For example if i was fighting for racial equality in an area where races were all descriminated against in some form or another calling it "whitenism" would NOT give a good impression of the groups goals or aims.

 

[geK0]

The women in my family are, for the most part, dominant (with the exception of my grandfather)
Most of my authority figures throughout childhood had been women
All my bosses have been women
Most of the women in my relationships have been sexually aggressive (not that I'm complaining, I actually find that attractive)

I hope you'll excuse me for not feeling like I'm living in a patriarchal society.

obviously my experiences aren't universal, I'm just pointing out that men aren't always the dominant ones : \



And yea as far as gender roles go, I'm quite unmasculine.

 

[Phasmal]

Hey i didnt do anything to show i was a bad gamer did i :C how did i make you lose faith in things, i support equality for everything...

I just get tired of trying to prove how reasonable feminism can be to a bunch of guys who seem quite angry about it. Obviously if you want to simply say equal rights enthusiast then thats fine.

We already have enough issues with sexism in our community, so constantly having to defend my position on equal rights feels like ... fighting a losing battle I guess. Our community can have trouble accepting those of us without a penis at the best of times, and these conversations/arguments just make me feel unwelcome.
Not that I'm moaning or saying I need to be made welcome by every dude on the planet, I just get tired.

 

[Right Hook]

I dont think anyone is "unpure" or "corrupted" if they have had sex

Bah, and I was all set on charging in yelling "Corrupt me, defile me, make me unpure, PLEASE!"

I'm pretty sure most guys would want a girl to yell that, haha.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Hey i didnt do anything to show i was a bad gamer did i :C how did i make you lose faith in things, i support equality for everything...

I just get tired of trying to prove how reasonable feminism can be to a bunch of guys who seem quite angry about it. Obviously if you want to simply say equal rights enthusiast then thats fine.

We already have enough issues with sexism in our community, so constantly having to defend my position on equal rights feels like ... fighting a losing battle I guess. Our community can have trouble accepting those of us without a penis at the best of times, and these conversations/arguments just make me feel unwelcome.
Not that I'm moaning or saying I need to be made welcome by every dude on the planet, I just get tired.

Im sorry you feel that way. If its any consolation i and my girlfriend believe firmly that acceptance for women amongst gamers will increase when women are better represented in the gaming industry and in games themselves as major characters. Maybe it shouldnt need to be this way but if it makes a positive difference its something. Thats why i encouraged her to turn her coding expertise toward game design and now she has a university place for it. Its gonna get better. Dont feel unwelcome. Its a cool hobby and loads of people are trying hard to get your gender represented and into it. I dont wanna patronise you by trying to coach you but youre right. It sucks sometimes. So i hope knowing you have a lot of reasonable people behind you both male and female to make you feel welcome does something for you.

I think its utter crap that 50% of our population should feel "alien" in a hobby we are desperately trying to prove as a medium and an art form. All these self same people toating gaming as a serious hobby best get ready to have everyone involved. Its easy to be a douche and be a sexist when you know the majority of people will be on your side, or failing that not willing to argue with you. If 50% of all online lobbies were female all the time the chances of sexism by gamers that we see today would be a lot lower.

 

[geK0]

Hey i didnt do anything to show i was a bad gamer did i :C how did i make you lose faith in things, i support equality for everything...

I just get tired of trying to prove how reasonable feminism can be to a bunch of guys who seem quite angry about it. Obviously if you want to simply say equal rights enthusiast then thats fine.

We already have enough issues with sexism in our community, so constantly having to defend my position on equal rights feels like ... fighting a losing battle I guess. Our community can have trouble accepting those of us without a penis at the best of times, and these conversations/arguments just make me feel unwelcome.
Not that I'm moaning or saying I need to be made welcome by every dude on the planet, I just get tired.

Most of the replies on this thread seem more like knee-jerking than anything; surely you can see how words like "patriarchy" and "feminist/anti-feminist" used in some contexts can come off as hostile.

Personally, I agree with most of the OP; I just resent the condescending tone and wild generalizations that myself and most of the male contributors to this thread have picked up on.
Honestly, I don't think feminism ever had to be brought up in this thread : \

 

[Phasmal]

Im sorry you feel that way. If its any consolation i and my girlfriend believe firmly that acceptance for women amongst gamers will increase when women are better represented in the gaming industry and in games themselves as major characters. Maybe it shouldnt need to be this way but if it makes a positive difference its something. Thats why i encouraged her to turn her coding expertise toward game design and now she has a university place for it. Its gonna get better. Dont feel unwelcome. Its a cool hobby and loads of people are trying hard to get your gender represented and into it. I dont wanna patronise you by trying to coach you but youre right. It sucks sometimes. So i hope knowing you have a lot of reasonable people behind you both male and female to make you feel welcome does something for you.

I think its utter crap that 50% of our population should feel "alien" in a hobby we are desperately trying to prove as a medium and an art form. All these self same people toating gaming as a serious hobby best get ready to have everyone involved. Its easy to be a douche and be a sexist when you know the majority of people will be on your side, or failing that not willing to argue with you. If 50% of all online lobbies were female all the time the chances of sexism by gamers that we see today would be a lot lower.

No, it's not patronising, its good to know. I thought you would understand, you seem like a reasonable dude. I'm glad something good could come out of this thread.

It's nice to be reminded there are dudes on the side of equality in games as well. It's easy to forget under the weight of some of the rubbish that is out there. And its hard not to be annoyed when I see guys on this forum say that they hate women, but still, nothing could keep me from gaming. =)

This happens sometimes, I will get grumpy and think its a losing battle and then someone will remind me that this community can be awesome as well. So thanks for being that person!

Most of the replies on this thread seem more like knee-jerking than anything; surely you can see how words like "patriarchy" and "feminist/anti-feminist" used in some contexts can come off as hostile.

Personally, I agree with most of the OP; I just resent the condescending tone and wild generalizations that myself and most of the male contributors to this thread have picked up on.
Honestly, I don't think feminism ever had to be brought up in this thread : \

Yeah, I can see how a lot of it would be knee-jerk reaction. I wish it hadn't come up either.
But it always dooooes. (And generalisations about ladies and saying you hate them is generally acceptable on this forum but meh double standards).

Like I said to phasmal, using ad hominem attacks doesn't refute his points. Just because you don't like him it doesn't make him wrong.

I wasn't using personal attacks to refute his points, I was simply saying he perhaps wasn't good representation. Also I think knowing what I know about him I would find it hard to remain objective. But thats just me. I'm human. So thats why I won't get into it, hope you understand.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Protip: If you ever want to be taken seriously don't embed AmazingAtheist videos because we've all worked out by now he is crazy, sexist scum who treats women like shit and thinks rape is hilarious.

And in answer to all your questions A) because certain benefits require certain sacrifices and B) because we have actually come a long way from "women are child-making house appliances" but that doesn't mean we should stop expecting more equality and better citizens.

I was only just made aware of the batshit crazy shit that was said. Part of me doesnt want to believe he said that stuff... however it doesnt make him wrong in this video though. And that would make perfect sense IF the sacrifices had ANYTHING to do with the benefits. I mean we get paid more but why does that have anything to do with more jail time? That explanation makes no sense? What to elaborate? Im not sure what B) is in answer to. Im not saying we should STOP fighting for women anywhere? I just wanna start fighting for everyone. Let there be no disadvantages for everyone. Let sexism against men be taken as seriously as sexism against women while sexism against women is STILL taken seriously. You dont lose ground by taking up both sides and fighting strongly for the rights of all under a new name.

The name always weirded me out since if it claims to want gender "equality" why does it use a gender specific word?

Its like if i made an "equality for all races" group for ALL races who happened to be descrimnated against in an area and called it the "blackenist" movement when it was for people of all races. It makes it seem very exclusive. Im hardly "offended" by it, nono, instead i think it might detract from the total number of supporters it has and quite honestly deserves.

 

[Phasmal]

Hey i didnt do anything to show i was a bad gamer did i :C how did i make you lose faith in things, i support equality for everything...

I just get tired of trying to prove how reasonable feminism can be to a bunch of guys who seem quite angry about it. Obviously if you want to simply say equal rights enthusiast then thats fine.

The reason people keep harping on about equal rights and not feminism as some people here believe there is no need for a group solely dedicated towards the interest of one gender. Rather, there should be one group to fight for all genders, together. Instead of having "feminists vs MRAs" having a contest to see who can be the biggest victim everyone should be work as one.

Captcha: am i happy?

Interesting question.

That would be a nice thing to happen. I for one follow the `equal rights for both genders` definition of feminism (though I am aware many people don't see it that way), so I just do the best I can.

 

[geK0]

Spoiler

Most of the replies on this thread seem more like knee-jerking than anything; surely you can see how words like "patriarchy" and "feminist/anti-feminist" used in some contexts can come off as hostile.

Personally, I agree with most of the OP; I just resent the condescending tone and wild generalizations that myself and most of the male contributors to this thread have picked up on.
Honestly, I don't think feminism ever had to be brought up in this thread : \

Yeah, I can see how a lot of it would be knee-jerk reaction. I wish it hadn't come up either.
But it always dooooes. (And generalisations about ladies and saying you hate them is generally acceptable on this forum but meh double standards).

Trust me, I'm quite annoyed by that as well -.....-

Does the whole "I hate women who friendzone me" phenomenon seem sexist to anyone else? : \ Those threads drive me mad!

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Spoiler

Most of the replies on this thread seem more like knee-jerking than anything; surely you can see how words like "patriarchy" and "feminist/anti-feminist" used in some contexts can come off as hostile.

Personally, I agree with most of the OP; I just resent the condescending tone and wild generalizations that myself and most of the male contributors to this thread have picked up on.
Honestly, I don't think feminism ever had to be brought up in this thread : \

Yeah, I can see how a lot of it would be knee-jerk reaction. I wish it hadn't come up either.
But it always dooooes. (And generalisations about ladies and saying you hate them is generally acceptable on this forum but meh double standards).

Trust me, I'm quite annoyed by that as well -.....-

Does the whole "I hate women who friendzone me" phenomenon seem sexist to anyone else? : \ Those threads drive me mad!

Less sexist, more stupid misunderstandings and lack of communication on both sides. The friend zone is nothing but a breakdown of communication, where the one giving the rejection doesn't have the guts to give a final no, and the one getting rejected doesn't have the guts to push for a straight answer. What can I say, though? It's what happens when your notions of human courtship rituals come from romantic comedies -- in other words, it's a problem of inexperience and lack of confidence, not necessarily sexism.

Edit: Misread that. The "I hate all women because they constantly reject me" thing is pure misogyny. Hating the friend zone itself is not.