"Virgin shaming": I know we have a lot of "but what about men's problems?" people out there.

Dtox333

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lacktheknack said:
LilithSlave said:
zehydra said:
The whole idea of men treating women as "objects of sexual conquest" was invented. Made up. Guys want sex. We have a very powerful sex drive, much stronger than the female sex drive.
I swear sometimes guys are the biggest misandrists that love stereotyping themselves and everyone else.

Come on, you don't speak for all men. And stop that you do. Not all men like sex as much as you. Heck, not even near as many as you think do.
True, not all of them are overly sex-driven. See: Me. But males are much more sex-driven than females, that's just biology. Anyone who observes day-to-day life can see this. I've talked to hundreds of men, and hundreds of women, and there is no shadow of a doubt in my mind that men are more into sex than women are, with maybe a ten percent overlap (ie. about ten percent of females are more into sex than ten percent of males). It's just what is.

Please don't imply that men and women are the same, as they aren't.

Equal, yes. The same, no.
ARE we more sexually driven biologically? Or are we socially programmed to be?

It's like the notion that women are far more emotional than men, when really it's men who're socially programmed to hide their emotions. It only looks like women are more emotional since they don't keep their feelings hidden as much as us.
 

Bealzibob

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Being a virgin at 18 I understand the problem and have experienced it to some degree. However like most things I get over it and I ignore entirely all but the most polite comments on the issue. To suggest humans suck at sexuality would be be a monumental understatement. We have well over 2000-3000 years worth of derp on the subject.

The only reason it's so prominent on the net is not because of the alpha male shit that spawns it most commonly in real life but because of the nerd stereotype that still clings to much of the internet.
 

Relish in Chaos

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I?ve decided that I honestly don?t give a shit about virginity or sex because, frankly, it?s something that doesn?t matter that much anyway. I feel pity for those American Pie-type sad cases that get their knickers in their twist because they?re eager to lose their virginity with some ?hot chick? on prom night. Just stop obsessing over it or so much. It?ll eventually happen, whether it?s in your teenage years or your twenties, and you shouldn?t just use some woman (unless she?s fine with it) so you can brag to your friends about it the next day and secure your masculinity or whatever.

I?m 16, and I know a bunch of people who?ve already had sex, but I know a bunch of people who haven?t. But, from my observations, I?ve found that the best way to find a partner is to not look. Many just happen to make friends, get closer and start going out. And please, no ?friend zone? or ?men are just nice to girls to get in their pants? bullshit.

I would want to know if my partner was a virgin before we have sex, just so we?re on the same page. I wouldn?t want to accidentally hurt her or anything if she wasn?t ready, and I wouldn?t want to raise her expectations if she thinks I?m not a virgin. That seems to be a pretty basic thing to ask a partner.

And seriously (at least in my experience), no-one believes that ?men sleeps with loads of women = stud / women sleeps with loads of men = slut? thing anymore. It?s the 21st century; as long as you?re not friends with a bunch of chauvinist dudebros, the Barney Stinsons of the world are generally looked down upon by their peers.
 

minarri

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I think the ridicule of virgins or of "sluts" is dependent upon age as well as on sex. Any virgin of greater than, say, high school age is generally ridiculed regardless of sex.

To be honest I think it has less to do with what a person has or hasn't done and more with the fact that people like to be mean.
 

Dtox333

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I have a personal disgust towards virgin shaming/slut shaming, it reinforces the ideology of how men are to be the conquers of the women and the women are to be obedient and self preserving (this is coming from a male feminist btw).

It goes hand in hand with our gendered linguistic system, how insults that people normally use target one aspect of men and one aspect of females. Men's pride and manhood are targeted by insults, being called "******," "gay" (making a connection between homosexuality and an undesirable male), "pussy," "*****" (basically calling a man a women), and other such words, all of which targets one's manhood and willingness to be what society defines as being a "man." same thing with women, except when insulted it's their self preservation and sexuality that's targeted. Being called "whore," "*****" (a female dog in heat), "slut," and the filthiest word, "****," which is basically all of those other words combined into one.

And FYI, I'm a liberal feminist. I'm for the equal rights, equal treatment, and generally equal standards for both men and women. I recognize the kind of oppressiveness exhibited against women, but that has diminished vastly over the past couple of decades. I do not demonize men.
 

Shadie777

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Phasmal said:
What I expected: Virgin and slut shaming is bad.

What I got: GENDER WAR. FUCK FEMINISTS/ANTIFEMINISTS.

Normally I would jump in, but I really don't want to. Congratulations escapists, you broke my spirit. I wonder if the gaming community will always have a problem with feminism, or if one day it might mature a little. I for one will not be holding my breath.
When the OP used terminology that simply puts blame on men then you are going to have a conflict. Not to say that those people who made such disrespectful replies are right, but I understand why they wanted to type such things. Heck, I also feel pretty insulted and honestly quite defensive by reading the OP's post.
 

Phasmal

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Shadie777 said:
Phasmal said:
What I expected: Virgin and slut shaming is bad.

What I got: GENDER WAR. FUCK FEMINISTS/ANTIFEMINISTS.

Normally I would jump in, but I really don't want to. Congratulations escapists, you broke my spirit. I wonder if the gaming community will always have a problem with feminism, or if one day it might mature a little. I for one will not be holding my breath.
When the OP used terminology that simply puts blame on men then you are going to have a conflict. Not to say that those people who made such disrespectful replies are right, but I understand why they wanted to type such things. Heck, I also feel pretty insulted and honestly quite defensive by reading the OP's post.
Tried to read the OP with man-eyes, and I guess so?
But I can't see where she put anything like all men. I think what the OP was trying to get across (perhaps unsuccessfully) is that the pressure put on men to lose virginity young and women to keep it as long as possible is stupid. The blame isn't on men, but the society in which people* are encouraged to emasculate and tease people* who haven't `got some` or who are `loose` if they are a lady.

*Changed this from men to people, remembered it happens both ways, added the bit about slut shaming.
 

Idocreating

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How many times do I have to say this about slut shaming.

It is easy for any women to walk into a public location, individually tell every guy she wants to take them home and sleep with them and have an extremely high probability that at least one of the guys would accept.

Guys can not.
 

bauke67

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I've been reading through 2 pages of this now, and I've completely forgotten what the point was. So has everyone else, it seems.
Yes, slut shaming is bad, and yes, virgin shaming is bad.
I think pretty much anyone can agree on that, right?
I suspect that virgin shaming is not generally caused by culture but comes purely from within the person, this may be different is some cases.
I don't understand how a feminist can the oppinion of an anti-feminist to win argument against just some random person who disagrees. It makes no sense at all.
Also, everyone should be free to have his own oppinion, and not be scolded for it by everyone that disagrees.
 

spartan231490

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I swear to god, if half the people/things that are called misogynist on this website actually were, women wouldn't be able to join a conversation with a group of 3 men without one of them treating her like an animal. What is it about the internet and these buzz words. Gamer entitlement, misogyny, ect? Why do we see a new word and instantly feel the need to apply it every god damn thing under the sun? Stop.
 

Kahunaburger

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Idocreating said:
How many times do I have to say this about slut shaming.

It is easy for any women to walk into a public location, individually tell every guy she wants to take them home and sleep with them and have an extremely high probability that at least one of the guys would accept.

Guys can not.
A) Have you tested this, or is this just conjecture?

B) What does this have to do with slut shaming?
 

Phasmal

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Idocreating said:
How many times do I have to say this about slut shaming.

It is easy for any women to walk into a public location, individually tell every guy she wants to take them home and sleep with them and have an extremely high probability that at least one of the guys would accept.

Guys can not.
That has like... nothing to do with slut shaming.
Just because it might be easy to pick up some random toothless guy at a bar doesn't mean thats what all women who have casual sex do. Also, that NEVER happens.

Slut shaming is making a woman feel bad for enjoying sex. It's dumb.
 

Kahunaburger

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spartan231490 said:
I swear to god, if half the people/things that are called misogynist on this website actually were, women wouldn't be able to join a conversation with a group of 3 men without one of them treating her like an animal.
Wait, what? How does your conclusion follow from your premise?
 

orangeban

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When I told some kids at school that I was asexual (I don't feel sexual attraction, though I might still have sex, it sounds like fun, but I'm not that bothered) they instantly decided this must be giving an excuse for being a virgin.

I pointed out that since I was only 14 at the time, I already had a decent excuse for being a virgin.

Anyway, when ignorant people learn about asexuality, an awful lot seem to conclude that you're lying or that there is something wrong with you (I'm also aromantic, I don't feel romantic attraction, and the number of people who have concluded I'm some kind of sociopath for not feeling romantic love, my God). In our society we seem to rank sex and love as the two most important things ever, and everyone who doesn't achieve them or, God forbid, doesn't want them is obviously some kind of social reject. I suspect that this is why you get virgin shaming.

I'd say you get slut shaming because of the social idea of "Women are delicate and innocent flowers and any who aren't that innocent are dirty dirty sluts!" However, I'd also suggest that since our society links love and sex so closely, anyone who has sex so much that they break the link between sex and love is doing something wrong. Combine this with the other, more major, reason and you get slut shaming!
 

Shadie777

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Phasmal said:
Tried to read the OP with man-eyes, and I guess so?
But I can't see where she put anything like all men. I think what the OP was trying to get across (perhaps unsuccessfully) is that the pressure put on men to lose virginity young and women to keep it as long as possible is stupid. The blame isn't on men, but the society in which people* are encouraged to emasculate and tease people* who haven't `got some` or who are `loose` if they are a lady.

*Changed this from men to people, remembered it happens both ways, added the bit about slut shaming.
To me it did seem like the OP was singling men out as the main problem. Many people did bring this up, but some of them used improper language and escalated the problem. Seriously, I sighed with relief when I found posts by Damien Black and TheVioletBandit which brought this up without insulting the OP or feminists.

Anyway, your summary is a much more understandable argument. if the OP presented the argument in such a non-biased way, I would have no problem.

Now I really need to leave this thread before it turns sexist...
 

Rawne1980

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BluebellForest said:
I completely agree, I hate society's attitude to the amounts of sex had by males/females. For one thing, I would much, MUCH prefer to date a male virgin than to date a male slut, although as a woman I have no desire to reverse the stereotype and become a slut myself. (I'll be using 'slut' as a gender nuetral term here)

Recently, I accused one of my male friends of being a slut (well, he was being one...) and he completely blew up at me rather than laughing it off or admitting that that's the case, saying that I was the slut for 'leading him on' (which I would like to point out now, I did not). So in other words, this man and likely many others think they only indulge in slut-like activity because women, the 'true-sluts' allow them and encourage them to.

God I hate society.
Not all men are like that.

Some of us are able to deal with things we've done because not everyone views sex as that big of a deal.

See sex is like going for a beer. It's okay on your own but it's better if there are more of you.

Plus you get arrested for masturbating in a pub .. er .. I heard .. from someone .. who wasn't me.
 

Kahunaburger

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orangeban said:
Anyway, when ignorant people learn about asexuality, an awful lot seem to conclude that you're lying or that there is something wrong with you (I'm also aromantic, I don't feel romantic attraction, and the number of people who have concluded I'm some kind of sociopath for not feeling romantic love, my God). In our society we seem to rank sex and love as the two most important things ever, and everyone who doesn't achieve them or, God forbid, doesn't want them is obviously some kind of social reject. I suspect that this is why you get virgin shaming.
Yeah, lots of people are complete idiots when it comes to asexuality. Why they can't wrap their head around it is a mystery to me - some people aren't sexually attracted to men, some people aren't sexually attracted to women, and some people aren't sexually attracted to either. That should be 100% okay in our society. A lack of awareness might be the root issue.