Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine Review

[Sarpedon]

Made me sad that they didn't have a bleeding heart emblem, so I couldn't make the Lamenter's chapter :<

 

[Sarpedon]

I like the 40k games and all, but I wish they would do something other than Space Marines as the main characters, I mean, who wouldn't want to play a campaign as an Aspect Warrior or Ork Boyz or (Emperor and Harlequin strike me down for admitting this) a Tyranid? Personally I think that they need to make a 40k game that includes like a six hour campaign for each of the Officio Assassinorium branches, they could really go for different gameplay mechanics for each since each has their own way of doing things and would make around a 30 hour game in campaigns alone, and then release different DLC for each branch that adds like another couple hours to each, or just make each branch a ten or twenty hour game in itself

To be honest, there IS a title where you take the role of a Tau Firewarrior. It's called (yup) Warhammer 40,000: Fire Warrior.

Wait a minute... WH40k: Space Marine, WH40k: Firewarrior.... lol. Next, we'll have WH40k: Nob, or WH40k: Cultist.

 

[Scow2]

I always used my pistol in Space Marine's campaign. It had unlimited ammo, and I found it more accurate than the bolter at mid-to-close range... great for popping those goddamn Squigs before they popped me.

 

[Cody Holden]

The problem is that because they're necessarily prominent in the source material, a lot of people seem to have made the mistake of thinking that they must be in some way interesting. This isn't so much of a problem for the tabletop game, because it doesn't affect much other than the colour paint you need and the odd special rule. But when it comes to actually telling stories, whatever the medium, the Ultramarines are just not the right choice. This is summed up brilliantly by the Ultramarine saga by Graham McNeill - in order to actually tell a story about the Ultramarines, he had to have the protagonists thrown out of the Ultramarines for not being boring enough.

Spoiler

Interestingly, Captain Titus gets thrown to the Inquisitorial courts for nearly the same reason. Not that I have a problem with that bit of story. To the contrary, as a Templar player, I loved the attention to the letter of the Imperial Cult's code of conduct.

 

[Kahani]

Uhm, no. You do know that the Imperial Guard have units called VETERANS and Storm Troopers. And there's plenty of Imperial Guard regiments out there who have Orks as their preferred enemy and have given the greenskins a hefty chunk of whoop-ass on several occasions.

The trouble here is the difference between the IG's portrayal in games, including tabletop, and the actual lore. Basically, pretty much every playable representation of them has been massively overpowered. The IG are supposed to be cannon fodder. Yes, they have some tougher troops, but they're still just squishy bullet-sponges compared to most of their opponents. What the IG have going for them is simply numbers. Any individual guardsman, even the toughest stormtroopers, will quickly be slaughtered by themselves. But a few hundred thousand of them backed up by thousands of tanks, artillery, air support, and so on, can happily take on the best.

The reason they're not generally actually shown like this is because it's just not feasible. Tabletop might manage to have IG outnumbering marines by 2:1 in a fight, but you just can't fit enough models on the board to have the 10:1 or 100:1 that it should be. Computer games could have done a bit better than they did, but still suffer from the sheer number of models that would need to be on screen. So instead we end up with them working as an army, but ending up as little more than another bunch of superhuman killing machines who can happily go toe-to-toe with space marines.

When looking at a shooter like Space Marine, this is a real problem. In an RTS like DoW, the IG weren't as individually weak as they should have been, but at least they were different from the other armies. But in a shooter, what's the difference between one superhuman killing machine and another? What would be the point in playing as an IG trooper who wades through battle slaughtering thousands of enemies and coming out unscathed? How would that be any different from a game in which you play a space marine? It really wouldn't, but while the latter is how the lore says it works, the former would just throw the lore out the window.

A game where you really played the IG could well be interesting, but it would have to involve you as one of thousands of expendable grunts, not a one man army. Something like Driver San Fransico might work - instead of playing a single person, you take control of them until they get killed then move on to posses another one, and so on until you win or run out of troops.

Storm bolters should have their own draw backs, like no zoom-in mode. It should be a strictly "charging into melee" weapon.

It's definitely not a charging weapon. The whole point of storm bolters is that they're basically rapid-fire bolters - long range suppression weapons. And they already have drawbacks built in - they jam. You could easily include them exactly as they're supposed to be without having them overpowered. They'd just be a powerful ranged weapon that runs the risk of cutting out at exactly the wrong time and having to waste precious time getting working again. I suppose you could replace that with an overheating mechanic so people can't get screwed over by the random element of jamming, but either way it would keep it true to the source material without breaking the game.

 

[SnakeoilSage]

If you've played the tabletop Warhammer 40k, you'll know storm bolters are basically a bolter that you can shoot and then charge into melee with in the same turn. That's all. They're not long range nothing.

 

[Redryhno]

I like the 40k games and all, but I wish they would do something other than Space Marines as the main characters, I mean, who wouldn't want to play a campaign as an Aspect Warrior or Ork Boyz or (Emperor and Harlequin strike me down for admitting this) a Tyranid? Personally I think that they need to make a 40k game that includes like a six hour campaign for each of the Officio Assassinorium branches, they could really go for different gameplay mechanics for each since each has their own way of doing things and would make around a 30 hour game in campaigns alone, and then release different DLC for each branch that adds like another couple hours to each, or just make each branch a ten or twenty hour game in itself

dawn of war dark crusade,
tau
orc
space marine
imperial guard
eldar
necron
chaos.
choose one you like then take over a planet.

Why is it since around 1999, I'm sure alot of you don't remember that year, people have steadily and steadily lost both concentration and the ability to read more than a half-hour a day? And yes, I know about the DOW games, kid, if you read more you would see what else I'd said.

 

[Redryhno]

I like the 40k games and all, but I wish they would do something other than Space Marines as the main characters, I mean, who wouldn't want to play a campaign as an Aspect Warrior or Ork Boyz or (Emperor and Harlequin strike me down for admitting this) a Tyranid? Personally I think that they need to make a 40k game that includes like a six hour campaign for each of the Officio Assassinorium branches, they could really go for different gameplay mechanics for each since each has their own way of doing things and would make around a 30 hour game in campaigns alone, and then release different DLC for each branch that adds like another couple hours to each, or just make each branch a ten or twenty hour game in itself

To be honest, there IS a title where you take the role of a Tau Firewarrior. It's called (yup) Warhammer 40,000: Fire Warrior.

Wait a minute... WH40k: Space Marine, WH40k: Firewarrior.... lol. Next, we'll have WH40k: Nob, or WH40k: Cultist.

Congratulations, I'm aware of that, but since I never played it I can't say anything about it. And this was already mentioned earlier. Why do people feel the need to hash-over a subject multiple times on a thread without reading it?

 

[lordlillen]

I like the 40k games and all, but I wish they would do something other than Space Marines as the main characters, I mean, who wouldn't want to play a campaign as an Aspect Warrior or Ork Boyz or (Emperor and Harlequin strike me down for admitting this) a Tyranid? Personally I think that they need to make a 40k game that includes like a six hour campaign for each of the Officio Assassinorium branches, they could really go for different gameplay mechanics for each since each has their own way of doing things and would make around a 30 hour game in campaigns alone, and then release different DLC for each branch that adds like another couple hours to each, or just make each branch a ten or twenty hour game in itself

dawn of war dark crusade,
tau
orc
space marine
imperial guard
eldar
necron
chaos.
choose one you like then take over a planet.

Why is it since around 1999, I'm sure alot of you don't remember that year, people have steadily and steadily lost both concentration and the ability to read more than a half-hour a day? And yes, I know about the DOW games, kid, if you read more you would see what else I'd said.

i see no mention of dark crusade or DOW in general in your commment so excuuuuuuuse me princess.

 

[Redryhno]

I like the 40k games and all, but I wish they would do something other than Space Marines as the main characters, I mean, who wouldn't want to play a campaign as an Aspect Warrior or Ork Boyz or (Emperor and Harlequin strike me down for admitting this) a Tyranid? Personally I think that they need to make a 40k game that includes like a six hour campaign for each of the Officio Assassinorium branches, they could really go for different gameplay mechanics for each since each has their own way of doing things and would make around a 30 hour game in campaigns alone, and then release different DLC for each branch that adds like another couple hours to each, or just make each branch a ten or twenty hour game in itself

dawn of war dark crusade,
tau
orc
space marine
imperial guard
eldar
necron
chaos.
choose one you like then take over a planet.

Why is it since around 1999, I'm sure alot of you don't remember that year, people have steadily and steadily lost both concentration and the ability to read more than a half-hour a day? And yes, I know about the DOW games, kid, if you read more you would see what else I'd said.

i see no mention of dark crusade or DOW in general in your commment so excuuuuuuuse me princess.

You did see the "earlier" part of that didn't you? And thank you for calling me Princess, I feel special now. and excuse only has one "U", peasant.

 

[ScreamingNinja]

Tbh, why would the Space Marines bother being sent to a planet with orks if it's a jungle/Magma city? They only get sent in when there's something at stake, or some debt to call in. And even then, there needs to be actual people and huge cities to make it worth while. XD They wouldn't sent a chapter to the ass end of no where to help some krill farmers.

And I think if they made the Stormy more like two bolters put together, people would complain about the ezi-mode weapon.

I thought it was awesome tbh. The way he switched between weapons makes sense. Since Space Marines are epic and super fast etc.

Honestly? I think they should have had lightening claws and stuff. That would be awesome. Or a combat shield to block/soak up bullets and a melee weapon. Either way, lovin' it.

Space Marines are expected to fight for the Imperium wherever there is trouble, and by engaging Orks on that backwater world of krill farmers they might stop the Orks from spreading and doing the kind of damage to valuable worlds like Graia in the first place. Space Marines don't pass up battlefields just 'cause they don't feel like it; they aren't shopping for groceries.

Storm bolters should have their own draw backs, like no zoom-in mode. It should be a strictly "charging into melee" weapon.

Space Marines are fast, but again, it makes the pistols redundant. You need to get some kind of use for them.

Lightning claws would rock. Storm Shields would rock even further. By the end of the game you should be in Terminator armor, too. Epic.

But yeah, loved the game! I'm looking forward to DLC's and for the multi-player to finally get that NAT issue fixed.

This is true, but at best they'd send an annoying strike force to the planet, not fully invade it to stop them. XD They'd pick somewhere to make a stand. If there was nothing important about the planet apart from some people being alive they wouldn't go there. Almost every book talks about them landing to defend something that makes weapons or crystals for the war-effort. They don't really get to choose, but they don't get sent to backwaters unless it's to assasinate some warleader.

Terminator armour would be awesome. And nawh. I don't know why every weapon has to have a draw back. If you're 40k in the future, you'd be hoping you'd have hammered out most of the drawbacks. XD

 

[SnakeoilSage]

This is true, but at best they'd send an annoying strike force to the planet, not fully invade it to stop them. XD They'd pick somewhere to make a stand. If there was nothing important about the planet apart from some people being alive they wouldn't go there. Almost every book talks about them landing to defend something that makes weapons or crystals for the war-effort. They don't really get to choose, but they don't get sent to backwaters unless it's to assasinate some warleader.

Terminator armour would be awesome. And nawh. I don't know why every weapon has to have a draw back. If you're 40k in the future, you'd be hoping you'd have hammered out most of the drawbacks. XD

Well the Warhammer 40k universe is meant to be dark, oppressive and barbaric. You'd -think- they'd have really advanced weapons, but the bolter itself is over 10,000 years old and the basic design isn't much different than modern firearms. The Imperium doesn't enjoy innovating technology, they see it as offensive to the Machine God, who may or may not in fact be a potent Necron C'tan star-god that can devour all our souls.

Like I said, dark, oppressive, and barbaric.

 

[SnakeoilSage]

He's not incorrect. In 2nd edition Stormbolters rolled 1 sustained fire dice, which meant they could get up to 3 shots a turn.....but the sustain fire dice also had a chance to jam, meaning you'd have to spend a turn unjamming it for each jam rolled. For added fun, the assault cannon rolled 3 dice and if it rolled 3 jams, it exploded, killing the Terminator instantly with no save allowed (which was an impressive 3+ on 2D6, so that was quite a blow)! They got rid of jamming from 3rd onwards.

This was also transferred across to the Space Hulk board games and computer games. I haven't played the board game in a while so I don't quite remember how they do it there, but in the computer games you keep firing for too long and the gun locks up.

The 3rd Edition Space Hulk does have jamming rules, but the rest of those examples are more than fifteen years old. In their most recent incarnation, the incarnation I would imagine Games Workshop would want to promote, it's an Assault 2 weapon, meaning you can fire two shots and still rush into melee combat, where the standard Bolter is a Rapid Fire weapon, meaining you can fire two shots but can't charge into melee without a special rule to counter it.

And the stormbolter from Space Marine is essentially that kind of weapon; it's ineffective at long range, which is my point.

 

[hyplion]

The game is fun but gets repetitive real quick.

And where the hell were the loads of dead gun servitors?!? the orks attacked a forgeworld containing a titan manufactorum,the mechanicus defends its planets better than shown in the game.

 

[SnakeoilSage]

As I said he's not incorrect, he's just using an older (or current, depending on which game you are looking at) representation of it. The Stormbolter has been portrayed that way and used for that purpose in the past (though I agree with on the long range part, it's more mid-range), and frankly, range 24" assault 2 can still fulfill that role quite handily, even if changes to the game system added that close range softening up capability to it.

As to how it works in Space Marine.....I've only played the demo so far, so I haven't had the chance to personally try it to be able to comment on it. However, if it was ineffective at range, I would be disappointed. Inaccurate I can understand (and would expect, considering its high ROF), but it still fires the same .75 mass reactive gyro-stabilised bolt as the standard boltgun, there should be no change to its effective range.

Then again, I'm talking more in simulation terms. Assault is where Space Marine is at, so I can see the guns being less of the focus than *****-slapping Orks with a powerfist.

Having played Space Marine, I can say that the Storm Bolter has the rapid fire part down, but at range its either innacurate or its bullets lose strength, I couldn't tell which.

No power fists unfortunately, but you can get a thunderhammer, my personal favorite.

 

[ScreamingNinja]

This is true, but at best they'd send an annoying strike force to the planet, not fully invade it to stop them. XD They'd pick somewhere to make a stand. If there was nothing important about the planet apart from some people being alive they wouldn't go there. Almost every book talks about them landing to defend something that makes weapons or crystals for the war-effort. They don't really get to choose, but they don't get sent to backwaters unless it's to assasinate some warleader.

Terminator armour would be awesome. And nawh. I don't know why every weapon has to have a draw back. If you're 40k in the future, you'd be hoping you'd have hammered out most of the drawbacks. XD

Well the Warhammer 40k universe is meant to be dark, oppressive and barbaric. You'd -think- they'd have really advanced weapons, but the bolter itself is over 10,000 years old and the basic design isn't much different than modern firearms. The Imperium doesn't enjoy innovating technology, they see it as offensive to the Machine God, who may or may not in fact be a potent Necron C'tan star-god that can devour all our souls.

Like I said, dark, oppressive, and barbaric.

I know 'bout the 40k world. Okay, then, you got me. It's 30k years in the future when they made it. My previous point still stands.

 

[SnakeoilSage]

*Chuckle* Honestly bro I'm in your camp. If the humans of WH40K could innovate they'd have built a gun the blows up Orks from a planetary distance. Just sit up in orbit and pull the trigger and watch 60% of the landmass suddenly turn red as Orks explode.

Like Drogan's Psychic Scourge. Only it works. lol