Warhammer Company Makes "Space Marine" Trademark Claim

Saviordd1

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hudsonzero said:
good, come up with your own term for space military men
Yeah, cause GW was the one to come up with that term.
-.-

OT: Good job GW, first you make warhammer absurdly expensive, then you unbalance the game and finally you are on the road to being an annoyingly retarded corporation.

CoD: 40K will be next.
 

Grenaid

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Feb 13, 2010
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Muspelheim said:
[...] when a real copyright infringement came along.
Very much agree with your post, but I thought I'd point out that trademark != copyright.

Decent post here: http://tacticalip.com/2012/03/19/copyright-vs-trademark-whats-the-difference/

Basically copyright might apply to a particular picture, or piece of art, but a trademark is more typically like a logo. The critical thing (if the trademark is valid) is that a customer wouldn't confuse the two. I can't start selling Apple phones I make myself out of my garage, but I could open a plumbing company named Apple since no one would confuse the two.

TLDR; Copyright is for those worried about being copied. Trademark is for those worried about their company's brand or "mark" being confused with another company.
 

Darks63

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Does anyone know why GW is so sue happy all the time? Are they bored between codexes? greed? Chaos gods?
 

IamLEAM1983

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Aug 22, 2011
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I'd be okay with this if they trademarked SPEHSS, and not "Space".

But - yeah. This smacks of a minor company wanting to protect its brand's visibility after the publishing arm of its video games-based lore went belly-up. They don't know where the Games Workshop license is going to go, so they're trying to protect Warhammer 40K in case getting more games published in that setting turns out to be trickier than expected.

Hogarth's right. I'd see them copyrighting "Blood Ravens" or "Adeptus Astartes", but copyrighting "Space Marine" is pretty much the same as trying to copyright "John Smith" as a name.
 

Ed130 The Vanguard

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Sep 10, 2008
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Darks63 said:
Does anyone know why GW is so sue happy all the time? Are they bored between codexes? greed? Chaos gods?
Add in fear and I would pick the "all of the above" option.

Korzack said:
Oh, Games Workshop: What, it's not bad enough you price your hobby out of the range of most intelligent people, now you want to unleash the Lawyers of Tzeentch on common sense as well? Just shut up and hide in the corner, already.
Also, Captcha: Please crap off trying to get me to enter in adverts just because some new fancy company's trying it out. I don't care about Black Mirror or any of that BS. Thank you and please desist.
Just type in swear words, or slap the keyboard a few times.

Its what I do then they show up.
 

Adeptus Aspartem

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GW shows it's best stupid once again. I've no more words for them.

Whenever they do something somewhat decent, they follow it up by something incredible stupid. I hope that damn company finally gets bought by WotC/Hasbro <.<
 

Inquisitor Slayde

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I love Warhammer 40K so much it's probably a little unhealthy, but I do not like Games Workshop at all. They're awful and this comes as no surprise. Copyright law is also awful and in dire need of a serious shake up.

I really hope this sort of crap is stopped soon but I just don't see it happening. Sad really.
 

Thaluikhain

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IIRC, when the Aliens board game came along, they had to get GW's permission to use the term "Space Marine" in there, so I can't say I'm surprised
 

beefpelican

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SupahGamuh said:
As much as I enjoy the Dawn of War series (and I'm still hoping for a 3rd installment), this is beyond stupid, it's almost like Edge all over again.
Indeed, or like when Bethesda decided it owned the word 'scroll'.
 

Space Jawa

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AstaresPanda said:
it is abit of a dick move but, really who do you think of when you hear SPACE MARINE ???
I think of generic sci-fi future Marines who happen to operate IN SPACE(!)

That or the folks from Starship Troopers.

Really
 

bastardofmelbourne

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In before trademark law =/= copyright law.

Darks63 said:
Does anyone know why GW is so sue happy all the time? Are they bored between codexes? greed? Chaos gods?
Trademarks are not copyrights. Trademarks have to be distinctive; they need to refer to a specific product made by a specific company. That's their whole reason for existing. In many jurisdictions you can lose the right to a registered trademark if the symbol (in this case, the term Space Marine) becomes generic, which in this case means that it loses its capacity to refer to a specific product.

For example, the term aspirin was originally a registered trademark owned by Bayer. In 1919, it became genericised in several countries, because people conflated the word "aspirin" with any form of acetylsalicylic acid to the point where the word no longer referred specifically to Bayer's product. Now aspirin is a generic term for acetylsalicylic acid, and anyone can sell acetylsalicylic acid and call it aspirin.

The reason why Games Workshop seems so sue-happy is because, in order to retain their registered trademark, they cannot let it become a generic science-fiction term. More specifically, they cannot let it be legally recognised as such. The reason why that's bad for GW is simple - if Space Marine became a generic term, anyone could release a miniatures range called "Space Marines" and leech off the reputation of GW's product, just like how they could release acetylsalicylic acid and call it aspirin. A whole lot of money goes into establishing the reputation of a product. For GW, who retains its superiority in the marketplace solely on the basis of its reputation rather than the quality of its models (there are better model ranges offered by smaller competitors) this is a huge deal. If they lose that reputation, they potentially lose their marketplace dominance.

That's why the latest 40k game was called Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine. The addition of the distinctive element "Warhammer 40,000" ensures that the game's title, which is a trademark, is not struck out for being insufficiently distinctive. Meanwhile, the inclusion of the element "Space Marine" ensures that anyone else who releases a game - or in this case a book - called "Space Marine" can be sued on the basis that "Space Marine" is deceptively similar to "Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine."

The real kicker is that if GW sits by and does nothing, and lets people start or continue using Space Marine as a generic term, they're facilitating the genericisation of that term and undermining the value of their registered trademark. For GW's legal department, that's unethical - they have to throw out these semi-baseless litigation threats from time to time, or they're not doing their jobs. They don't actually intend to sue; they just want to deter people from using the term Space Marine in any field (toys, games, films, books) that GW could have a business interest in, because if they allowed it, a future competitor could use that as grounds for having their trademark struck from the registry.

I hope that helps anyone here who's wondering why GW (and other companies like Bethesda) do this kind of seemingly inane shit from time to time. They actually have a pretty good reason for doing so.
 

Skeleon

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Reminds me of Apple trying to sue because of the term "App Store" as if they owned it. I can only hope they fail because as much as I enjoy WH40K stuff, they are far from the first to come up with nor the only ones to use the term.
 

Manthraxx

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I must admit that I kinda see the point.. to me the guy from Doom is a UAC Marine, the Starship Troopers are just that, Storm Troopers are just that as well and Hudson and the rest are Colonial Marines... and Space Marines are the guys from Warhammer 40K... never thought the term generic

now "marine" is another story..

But if anyone is breaking their copyright, it would be Blizzard in my mind. A Terran Marine is almost a carbon copy, but again the name not withstanding.
 

LordLundar

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Norix596 said:
Bit late for that isn't it? This company is small fry compared to the legions of others who have been more successful in other franchises since. It's legal claims will go nowhere if it tries to bring suit against Microsoft for example.
They're shooting for precedence.

Doc on The Whiteboard comic explains it better than I can when dealing with a similar issue regarding paint ball guns.

http://www.the-whiteboard.com/autowb189.html
http://www.the-whiteboard.com/autowb190.html
http://www.the-whiteboard.com/autowb191.html
 

42Weasels

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Anyone else remember the case between Zenimax and Mojang over Scrolls and The Elder Scrolls? Same case could be made here (assuming I remember the outcome of my own example right): they're trying to hold onto a name that is simply too generic. Maybe if it was something more.... unique? Then I would understand.
 

Darks63

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bastardofmelbourne said:
In before trademark law =/= copyright law.

Darks63 said:
Does anyone know why GW is so sue happy all the time? Are they bored between codexes? greed? Chaos gods?
Trademarks are not copyrights. Trademarks have to be distinctive; they need to refer to a specific product made by a specific company. That's their whole reason for existing. In many jurisdictions you can lose the right to a registered trademark if the symbol (in this case, the term Space Marine) becomes generic, which in this case means that it loses its capacity to refer to a specific product.

For example, the term aspirin was originally a registered trademark owned by Bayer. In 1919, it became genericised in several countries, because people conflated the word "aspirin" with any form of acetylsalicylic acid to the point where the word no longer referred specifically to Bayer's product. Now aspirin is a generic term for acetylsalicylic acid, and anyone can sell acetylsalicylic acid and call it aspirin.

The reason why Games Workshop seems so sue-happy is because, in order to retain their registered trademark, they cannot let it become a generic science-fiction term. More specifically, they cannot let it be legally recognised as such. The reason why that's bad for GW is simple - if Space Marine became a generic term, anyone could release a miniatures range called "Space Marines" and leech off the reputation of GW's product, just like how they could release acetylsalicylic acid and call it aspirin. A whole lot of money goes into establishing the reputation of a product. For GW, who retains its superiority in the marketplace solely on the basis of its reputation rather than the quality of its models (there are better model ranges offered by smaller competitors) this is a huge deal. If they lose that reputation, they potentially lose their marketplace dominance.

That's why the latest 40k game was called Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine. The addition of the distinctive element "Warhammer 40,000" ensures that the game's title, which is a trademark, is not struck out for being insufficiently distinctive. Meanwhile, the inclusion of the element "Space Marine" ensures that anyone else who releases a game - or in this case a book - called "Space Marine" can be sued on the basis that "Space Marine" is deceptively similar to "Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine."

The real kicker is that if GW sits by and does nothing, and lets people start or continue using Space Marine as a generic term, they're facilitating the genericisation of that term and undermining the value of their registered trademark. For GW's legal department, that's unethical - they have to throw out these semi-baseless litigation threats from time to time, or they're not doing their jobs. They don't actually intend to sue; they just want to deter people from using the term Space Marine in any field (toys, games, films, books) that GW could have a business interest in, because if they allowed it, a future competitor could use that as grounds for having their trademark struck from the registry.

I hope that helps anyone here who's wondering why GW (and other companies like Bethesda) do this kind of seemingly inane shit from time to time. They actually have a pretty good reason for doing so.
Ty i can see the point of it now but it is still from a PR standpoint kinda of a bad move, like when they sued all those fan-sites a while back and yes i know the reason they did that but it still angered alot of fans.