WARNING! this is a real threat to basic human freedoms!

[Sylvine]

I would still call it iffy at best. I see too many places where one would have to prove they are a citizen, and seeing how hard that was to get into college I would hate to see how hard it is when they want to make it hard.

I think people are more upset that the idea of the bill passed then the specifics of the bill.

Also the line except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States is iffy as there are some people who can make the constitution say anything. They will find a way to make it constitutional under one of the broader powers of government.

That's how they got the power to make agencies after all, by redefining a few words.

Well, if You're willing to, You can apply that to anything. But then You're not looking at what's there, but have already made up Your mind about what You want to believe.

Yes, even with that wording and those clauses, there are still issues, but if You really think this is jsut some cleverly disguised tool to strip the Good American off their Freedom (tm)... that's conspiracy theory tterritory, I don't go there.

~Sylv

 

[Yellowbeard]

Man, you people are just fucked down there, aren't you?

At this rate you'll be due for a revolution in 50 years.

 

[Zetona]

Luckily, this is not something the Obama administration, the Pentagon, or the American intelligence community want passed, and even if they did, it's hard to imagine the Supreme Court would sympathize. That the Senate passed the bill 93-7, though...let's just say that there's a reason why their approval ratings are around 9%.

 

[ConstantErasing]

Even if it manages to make it into law the courts are going to tear this one apart. Still the very fact that it was even proposed makes me extremely sad, frustrated, and scared. I love my country, I just don't love the people that live in it.

 

[jimahaff]

Ah, we love you America.

From a distance.

...

A really looong distance.

TAKE ME WITH YOU!!!

j.k. I'm not all that worried. This could be really bad, IF it passes the house, and IF it doesn't get vetoed. while technically the president can only veto a bill once, so even if he does veto it there is a chance they will push it through again, and then it automatically passes.

But still I'm not all that worried.

 

[thethird0611]

Is it bad that I just read this bill, and the whole thing is blown out of proportion?

The people that it is talking about in those sections are people who were associated with the 9/11 attacks, people affiliated with terrorist organizations, and people connected to Al-Queida (sp?).

Seriously, it expressly says US citizes and people who are lawfully citizens (AKA Immigrants) are exempt.

CMON!

 

[Freaky Lou]

k @ this not being on CNN or MSNBC.com, but it being on the front page of a Swedish news site: http://newsvoice.se/2011/12/02/us-senate-declares-the-entire-usa-to-be-a-battleground/

 

[2fish]

snip

Well, if You're willing to, You can apply that to anything. But then You're not looking at what's there, but have already made up Your mind about what You want to believe.

Yes, even with that wording and those clauses, there are still issues, but if You really think this is jsut some cleverly disguised tool to strip the Good American off their Freedom (tm)... that's conspiracy theory tterritory, I don't go there.

~Sylv

The only reason I brought my points up are because

1. In my time at the state Senate I often saw loose terms such as these that later either killed the bill since they were so broad or were open to abuses that were used.

2. In my latest law class we did cover interpritation of laws and well a poorly defined law leads to fights over what the law is supposed to do. So the tighter the wording the better the law, aka less area for abuse.

3. I actually belive we have no freedoms nor rights so I cannot be in a party to be saying OMG they are taking my rights away.

4. I wouldn't say conspiracy theory seeing as it is not a fear of "the man" but rather abuses within the system. See any police brutality or misuse of government funds. It happens and it is best if it is not protected by law.

 

[Shinomori]

Yeah... That is not constitutional

 

[RicoADF]

Um guys don't start panicking yet this still has to get through the house, the signed by the president, then if it get that far it'll be taken up buy the supreme court, so let's not go nuts yet, more likely than not this bill will be destroyed soon enough, America has enough checks and balances that bullshit like this doesn't last long.

There are already cases that prove those systems don't work, the Patriot Act comes to mind quickly.
Not really suprised, theres plenty of evidence the US are going that way, I just hope the other nations tell the US to jump in the lake if they try to enforce it outside the USA.

 

[McNinja]

Call me silly but this seems pretty unconstitutional. Even if it isnt, imagine how many loopholes they would have to go through to word it properly and get a pass. It seems like it will only be a matter of time before they try to disregard the constitution entirely. Hopefully it will get shot down.

it also contains a shitload of allowances for defense spending, which would make it harder to veto. Because as everyone knows, the more you spend, the less debt you are in.

 

[Patrick Corners]

Did any one of You bother to actually check sections 1031 and 1032, or did You all just assume. Oh! It says so on teh internets! Must be true, then!...?

Under 1031:
"(d) CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITATION ON APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES PERSONS.
?The authority to detain a person under this section does not extend to the
detention of citizens or lawful resident aliens of the United
States on the basis of conduct taking place within the
United States except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States."

Under 1032:
"(b) REQUIREMENT INAPPLICABLE TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS.
?The requirement to detain a person in military custody
under this section does not extend to
citizens of the United States."

Source: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1253rs/pdf/BILLS-112s1253rs.pdf

So, yeah. Goddamn it, I'm not even a citizen of the US. Do Your own research?

~Sylv

Yeah people just want to always see the worst out of a propose law which probably wont even make it to the presidents desk. This is what makes me laugh whenever I see people panic about the SOPA bill because there have been two other bills in the past 4 years with almost the exact same wording that have been killed before they have left the respected houses they originated in.

Face it people just want something to panic about.

 

[Alphakirby]

Good news, Obama has already said he's going to Veto the military thing into the dirt should he ever find it on his desk.

And that, Ladies and Gentlemen is why we have a president. To veto bullshit laws.
God Bless America.

 

[Little2Raph]

Gee, didn't see this coming. . .

So, I guess if you can't beat the Chinese you may as well join them, hmmm?

 

[Denariax]

Did any one of You bother to actually check sections 1031 and 1032, or did You all just assume. Oh! It says so on teh internets! Must be true, then!...?

Under 1031:
"(d) CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITATION ON APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES PERSONS.
?The authority to detain a person under this section does not extend to the
detention of citizens or lawful resident aliens of the United
States on the basis of conduct taking place within the
United States except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States."

Under 1032:
"(b) REQUIREMENT INAPPLICABLE TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS.
?The requirement to detain a person in military custody
under this section does not extend to
citizens of the United States."

Source: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1253rs/pdf/BILLS-112s1253rs.pdf

So, yeah. Goddamn it, I'm not even a citizen of the US. Do Your own research?

~Sylv

Yeah people just want to always see the worst out of a propose law which probably wont even make it to the presidents desk. This is what makes me laugh whenever I see people panic about the SOPA bill because there have been two other bills in the past 4 years with almost the exact same wording that have been killed before they have left the respected houses they originated in.

Face it people just want something to panic about.

The reason people are up in arms about it (Or at least that I am), is that anyone that has the appearance of a person from the Middle-East can be stuck in jail for the rest of their life, without trial, without explanation. Inadvertidly, this also goes back to Hitler's view of "all Jewish people should be eradicated", not to the same extent of course, but mighty close considering the people we've liberated from their oil fields if you get my drift.

 

[Phlakes]

Oh hell no. I will walk to DC and force Obama to veto this bill if I have to. How something that so blatantly violations Constitutional rights should never have passed. It shouldn't have even been read, it should be in a trash bin under someone's desk right now.

You know what? Screw the 2012 election. Screw SOPA and this bill. Screw our debt crisis.

I'm moving to Canada.

 

[TheRundownRabbit]

Its times like this were I am glad that I'm not staying in this country forever. Seriously? Look, I knew politicians were stupid, but this...c'mon man!

 

[countrysteaksauce]

Wouldn't be the first time the writ of habeas corpus was suspended. Anyway, it won't be signed into law. /thread

 

[Patrick Corners]

Did any one of You bother to actually check sections 1031 and 1032, or did You all just assume. Oh! It says so on teh internets! Must be true, then!...?

Under 1031:
"(d) CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITATION ON APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES PERSONS.
?The authority to detain a person under this section does not extend to the
detention of citizens or lawful resident aliens of the United
States on the basis of conduct taking place within the
United States except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States."

Under 1032:
"(b) REQUIREMENT INAPPLICABLE TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS.
?The requirement to detain a person in military custody
under this section does not extend to
citizens of the United States."

Source: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1253rs/pdf/BILLS-112s1253rs.pdf

So, yeah. Goddamn it, I'm not even a citizen of the US. Do Your own research?

~Sylv

Yeah people just want to always see the worst out of a propose law which probably wont even make it to the presidents desk. This is what makes me laugh whenever I see people panic about the SOPA bill because there have been two other bills in the past 4 years with almost the exact same wording that have been killed before they have left the respected houses they originated in.

Face it people just want something to panic about.

The reason people are up in arms about it (Or at least that I am), is that anyone that has the appearance of a person from the Middle-East can be stuck in jail for the rest of their life, without trial, without explanation. Inadvertidly, this also goes back to Hitler's view of "all Jewish people should be eradicated", not to the same extent of course, but mighty close considering the people we've liberated from their oil fields if you get my drift.

Okay Im not even going to touch the remark about oil fields as I can already tell that you and I are going to have a differing opinion on that . However on the basis of the law you be surprised by how many of these "laws" get brought up during congress that would have many people protesting. they are never meant to pass but rather garner support form those who would support this law in a particular congressional leader district.

Edit: oh and for all of you saying your going to move to Canada I seriously doubt your going to uproot your life over some law that probably wont even make it to the other house of congress let alone the President