Was it Homophobic?

[Stasisesque]

We are not living in a 1984 scenario, there is no such thing as thoughtcrime. You will rarely discover whether or not someone is tolerating or accepting you for who/what you are - whether that be gay, black, Jewish etc. and so forth. And you are perfectly capable of teaching tolerance to others.

No, there is certainly no such thing as a thought crime, but there is a taboo. Being outspoken about disliking jewish people or black people is frowned upon socially, and when people wonder if their negative feelings based on race or religion are fine they normally come to the conclusion that, based on peer pressure, they are probably wrong.

That's how you eradicate prejudice. Legally, we can grant equal rights to gays, jews or blacks overnight. That's easy. If we also want to integrate people in society, there's something to be said about being vocal against racist or homophobic people just to deliver the point that it's not alright to discriminate, even if we can't stop anybody from doing so in their own heads.

For the record, I'm also an atheist, and I will argue about the dangers of religion all night if I'm given the chance, but you won't see me arguing for preventing people from exercising their faith in public, as you won't see me arguing for preventing people from showing their sexual orientation in public.

I can't agree. Demonising those who are vocal about their prejudices does nothing but martyr them, being outspoken about prejudice and that it has no place in modern society will fall on deaf ears for as long as tolerance is not common.

I'm not going to presume to know where prejudices are born, but I think we can safely agree there is a lot of evidence to suggest it is commonly passed down amongst from older, less tolerant generations. The best (in my opinion) way to combat this never ending cycle is to teach those who teach the younger generations. Not with rampant displays of homosexuality, or cries of bigotry from every Tom, Dick and Harry but level headed, calm debate and discussion. Rather than comparing someone who feels they may be homophobic to a racist, when one is a very new taboo and the other has been around for three generations now, teach them why homosexuality is a-okay.

Don't expect everyone to suddenly jump on the Gay bandwagon, they're not going to. But spreading tolerance to those who can use it for good, for the benefit of society and new generations can only be a good thing.

This thread, and countless others, are proof even the most accepting of people (even those actively involved in the LGBT community) are put off by having sexuality forced down their throats. There are better ways to go about this.

 

[Stasisesque]

you don't need to like something to tolerate it.

That's what she said.

... No, she really did.

Funny, I'm often telling women they don't need to like it to tolerate it.

OH! Now I get it. I read MassiveGeek's post three or four times trying to work out what the "that's what SHE said" line referred to.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Taking things out of context is precisely why doing this is so enlightening. Because the context of race and religion is already accepted to some extent and racism or religious prejudice is already a taboo, thinking about homosexuality as race or religion helps you visualize the target for acceptance (and really, if the current state of racism is where you want to be, you know you're really suffering discrimination).

Being black and being gay isn't different at all, and that feeling you get when you think about two guys making out is the same feeling people raised in a culture of distrust for other races got when a black person sat next to them in the bus or in a restaurant. I work with gay people. With married gay people, even. If they weren't able to kiss their wives or husbands openly when they see them in the office or in a bar or in a bus stop that would be discrimination up there with separating bathrooms for races or banning interracial marriage.

That uncomfortable feeling is okay, you are allowed to feel like that about someone who's different. What you aren't allowed to do is act on that and discriminate. I'm going to go back to what you changed my post to and rewrite a bit of it.

"You just need to tolerate people being black, you don't have to like it.

I don't like people being black, but I won't treat a black person any different because of it. So long as who he is isn't based entirely around his race, I'm cool with him."

That is neutral because it isn't discrimination. You changed the first sentence to hypothetical me not liking a group but only tolerating them, which is made it discrimination.

I spent a good year of my life spending most of my time with a gay guy and a bisexual girl, I didn't stop my friends expressing their sexuality whether it made me uncomfortable or not. That's the point I'm trying to make, you don't need to like a certain aspect of someone, whether it makes you uncomfortable or not, you need to accept it and let them live the way they want to live.

Just to make my point clear (I tend to mix words and make myself unclear), as long as you treat everyone the same, you aren't homophobic or racist and aren't part of the problem.

 

[Actual]

you don't need to like something to tolerate it.

That's what she said.

... No, she really did.

Funny, I'm often telling women they don't need to like it to tolerate it.

OH! Now I get it. I read MassiveGeek's post three or four times trying to work out what the "that's what SHE said" line referred to.

I live to bring a greater understanding and appreciation of tasteless jokes to the people. *bows*

EDIT: But may have confused you further by screwing up the format in the original quote, L2previewnub!

 

[s0denone]

I can't agree. Demonising those who are vocal about their prejudices does nothing but martyr them, being outspoken about prejudice and that it has no place in modern society will fall on deaf ears for as long as tolerance is not common.

I'm not going to presume to know where prejudices are born, but I think we can safely agree there is a lot of evidence to suggest it is commonly passed down amongst from older, less tolerant generations. The best (in my opinion) way to combat this never ending cycle is to teach those who teach the younger generations. Not with rampant displays of homosexuality, or cries of bigotry from every Tom, Dick and Harry but level headed, calm debate and discussion. Rather than comparing someone who feels they may be homophobic to a racist, when one is a very new taboo and the other has been around for three generations now, teach them why homosexuality is a-okay.

Don't expect everyone to suddenly jump on the Gay bandwagon, they're not going to. But spreading tolerance to those who can use it for good, for the benefit of society and new generations can only be a good thing.

This thread, and countless others, are proof even the most accepting of people (even those actively involved in the LGBT community) are put off by having sexuality forced down their throats. There are better ways to go about this.

And that is the whole point, isn't it?

Being uncomfortable around a poster of two gay gentleman having fun has nothing to with tolerating or not tolerating homosexuals as a whole.

You also brought up, in your previous post, an interesting point about not knowing whether you are accepted or tolerated. I will have to think on that one.

In my book posters such as the one described in the OP serve to further de-normalise homosexuals.
"We are different from you, so you will have to deal with us putting up pictures of us kissing"
Like I would argue gay-pride parades do as well.

You have to treat being gay as a homosexual, as something completely normal. If you go out of your way to inform everyone that you are a homosexual and that they should deal with it, you aren't making anything better - and if anything, you are only serving to make the difference between yourself (a homosexual) and those you are informing (the heterosexuals) even more clear.

I should also quote

Snip

to make sure this isn't a circlejerk.

Noelveiga, above post is for you, too. You, for some reason, cared not to respond to my response to you - but I'm still interested in discussing this with you.

Also is there a "mixed gender" version of "circlejerk"?

 

[Whichi]

Homosexual Tolerance Education is a plague on society.

Corrected.

on that topic, remember that one episode of South Park where Mr Garrison was trying to get fired for being gay? the kids were disrespecting Mr Garrison because their teacher was a few hairs short of being a dingleberry, and everyone was belittling the kids because it sounded like gay bashing.

You're only going to get resistance and resentment when you attempt to impose tolerance and acceptance. When the world is ready to accept and tolerate your choice in sexual preference, it will happen. "We're not there yet, people... evolution is slow, smallpox is fast." ~ George Carlin

And why are homosexuals allowed to have parades in public? Just because they take it in the butt, do the dishes and the decor, and have a bit of sensitivity... what about housewives? They do that AND give birth to something the size of a watermelon, and it comes out a hole the size of a lemon (at best). housewives are unsung heroes.

BTW I'm still unmarried, in case anyone gets that crazy idea that I'm whipped

 

[TheDarkestDerp]

If it really was "no big deal " to you as you say, why would you want to rip down the poster? Homosexual people have to see images of heterosexuals "making out" on everything from billboards to book covers at the grocery checkout. Why does the fact that it's two males upset you so? If it were a person of either sex would it? Or better yet, two attractive females? Either PDA is inappropriate or it isn't.

I wouldn't say you were being homophobic, but I will say you aren't nearly as open-minded as you seem to think.

 

[minimacker]

You don't have to put up posters that you're gay. Who the fuck cares? Are we supposed to feel sympathetic or bad about ourselves for not caring that someone is gay?

I'm pretty sure you don't have to put up posters and spread newsletters if you're Black, White, Christian or Jewish.

Who the fuck cares?

 

[Delicious Anathema]

I don't think highly of gay people, I don't care for them or their sexuality and I don't have a problem being that way.

 

[Reqviemus]

I really don't like those tolerance campaigns. To me, homosexuals should try to convince public that they are same as everyone else, yet such campaigns seem to ephasize the fact that they are, in some way different.
The said poster was the best (the worst ...) example, where one is attacked with uncomfortable imagery, and right of the bat is warned not to think anything bad about it.
To me it's...well, confrontational.

 

[Angerwing]

I'm uncomfortable seeing two gay guys making out. I'm uncomfortable seeing two old people making out. I'm uncomfortable seeing two ugly people making out.

Just because I see two guys kissing, and it grosses me out, I'm not a homophobe. Men are completely unattractive to me. So seeing them doing something sexual weirds me out. Holding hands? Sure. Hugs? Go to town. But when I want you to keep your private intimacy private, don't try to label me a homophobe. It only demeans you.

 

[Booze Zombie]

I really don't have a problem with homosexuals, but I don't think any sexuality should be shoved in your face, gay, bi, straight, whatever, it's someone else's business unless I'm their sugar-daddy (or vice versa).

So, that poster is something I disagree with. It probably would've been more effective if you just had the two guys holding hands next to a picture of a straight couple holding hands with "is it really so different" or something cheesy like that, it'd probably have elicited a lot less of a negative reaction.

 

[Woodsey]

Social disease is the perfect term to describe anything like homophobia or racism.

But, as long as you're not trying to ban them or something stupid, then fine.

Homophobia is a sin.

Reject the Book of Leviticus.

What?

I really don't have a problem, but I don't think any sexuality should be shoved in your face, gay, bi, straight, whatever, it's someone else's business unless I'm their sugar-daddy (or vice versa).

The problem with the argument (not exactly yours, but you kinda mentioned it so I'll throw it out there) that people shouldn't "show off" their sexuality, is that straight people do it all the time.

We flirt with girls; talk about shagging, tits and arses, and whatever else constantly; laugh about porn; make wanking jokes, etc. etc.

And yet a gay person talks about being gay and suddenly they're an attention seeker.

 

[s0denone]

The problem with the argument (not exactly yours, but you kinda mentioned it so I'll throw it out there) that people shouldn't "show off" their sexuality, is that straight people do it all the time.

We flirt with girls; talk about shagging, tits and arses, and whatever else constantly; laugh about porn; make wanking jokes, etc. etc.

And yet a gay person talks about being gay and suddenly they're an attention seeker.

Well, we don't talk about being straight either.
We talk to straight people about straight things.

You can be damn well sure that homosexuals talk to other homosexuals about shagging, tits and arses(if they're women), and whatever else. They laugh about porn, make wank jokes, etc. etc.
EDIT: If they're your mates they also talk to you about that. I have a gay friend who constantly makes me uncomfortable, and he loves it.

That has nothing to do with attention seeking.

Attention seeking is the gay pride parade, for example... Which serves counter-productively towards having "homosexuality" accepted as "normal".

 

[camazotz]

Yes, definitely a double standard here. Heterosexual innuendo and outright expression is all over the place --constantly-- in our society. Homosexual behavior is part of the minority, and its easy to get uncomfortable around things you aren't exposed to on a daily basis.

I grew up in Arizona and would characterize myself as a teen as "open minded but still completely and totally uncomfortable" around other lifestyles, until I went to college, and subsequently moved to Seattle, WA and lived on Capitol Hill for close to ten years. After that experience, I grew pretty apathetic about alternative lifestyles. Live and let live, I say!

Any minority that has a right to expression should be allowed it. There is not and never should be a claim by the majority perspecitve that it is somehow right by virtue of numbers. Speaking as an atheist (because I am otherwise a straight white middle class male and have no persecution to fear outside of my beliefs) I can attest to the fact that there is no way I would decline to express my own views or opinions simply to keep the peace with someone else who feels "uncomfortable" around my perspective. That's their problem, not mine. And I think the same applies here, with this poster.

 

[BlueberryMUNCH]

Well, to be uncomfortable with homosexuality is fine; that's definitely not homophobia.

A homophobe, by my definition, is someone that hates the gay community; and what you described is certainly not hate (Y)

 

[Verlander]

your sexuality in meaningless

That should well the the catchphrase of the "fed up" rights movement.

In answer to the question, maybe a little. Sorry dude, I wanna be on your side, but if it causes him a physical discomfort, then he's still treating it separately. Sexuality should be meaningless though, and posters depicting graphic sexuality shouldn't be in a school, regardless of sexuality.

My advice? Make him watch a load of guys sucking dick online, so that he becomes desensitized to it all. People kissing wont affect him then. Tear down that poster as well, it's stupid, inappropriate, and if anything, harms the gay community

 

[Headsprouter]

id feel uncomfotable even if it was 2 women kissing on that poster. i feel uncomfortable if i see anyone furiously making out publicly.

 

[Woodsey]

The problem with the argument (not exactly yours, but you kinda mentioned it so I'll throw it out there) that people shouldn't "show off" their sexuality, is that straight people do it all the time.

We flirt with girls; talk about shagging, tits and arses, and whatever else constantly; laugh about porn; make wanking jokes, etc. etc.

And yet a gay person talks about being gay and suddenly they're an attention seeker.

Well, we don't talk about being straight either.
We talk to straight people about straight things.

You can be damn well sure that homosexuals talk to other homosexuals about shagging, tits and arses(if they're women), and whatever else. They laugh about porn, make wank jokes, etc. etc.

That has nothing to do with attention seeking.

Attention seeking is the gay pride parade, for example... Which serves counter-productively towards having "homosexuality" accepted as "normal".

The point is, everyone displays their sexuality, constantly. Gays talk about it directly because they're still discriminated against (even in the law) - if you weren't considered equal in society you'd shout about it too.

The other half of it is having other people be comfortable with the fact that they're gay - if no one ever talks about being gay (either directly, through gay pride or whatever else) then you've got a lot more unhappy people.

I would love it if people could simply be gay and not have to do those things, because you'd see them be truly considered equal in society, but they're not, so they do do those things - and they will do them until we've got rid of all the dumb-arse homophobes.

 

[biGBum333]

asking everyone to try and feel comfortable about homosexuality is like telling gay people to be straight. if people feel uncomfortable about anything they have the right to express their concerns, doesnt mean they ''hate'' anyone or have any kind of disease (which is the stupidest thing ive ever heard). gay people can be gay as they want - fair enough. not everyone gives a shit and its something that should never be premoted. i mean christ! whats society come to? people are far too assiduous when it comes to supporting homosexual ideals.

i have nothing against gay people but its shit like this that just really gets me worked up