We need another Cold War

Thaluikhain

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Not necessarily. China is still a developing country: as it develops, efficiency increases rapidly such that workers on average become more productive.
Oh, that's a point, I'd totally overlooked that.
 

Iron

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No.

Trump was referring to the people. I'm referring to the living conditions of the country.
How do you know what Trump was referring to? He didn't have the ability to exonerate himself on the escapist like you did. Admit it, you called China a shithole country!
/jk/ You ought to be deliberate with your language, and avoid hypocrisy.
 

Agema

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Most men from the one child policy are middle aged so they will have resigned to fate by now.
Nope, China still has disproportionately high numbers of men born even now; about 45 million boys compared to about 39 million girls under 5.

But to be honest it's not really that different from any developed country. Prosperity leads to millions of singles and it's no secret for many men not voluntary.
Assuming monogamy, well over 10% of the male population being unlikely to find a permanent partner simply because there aren't women to even pair up with is very different from developed countries.

I guess China is in a more advantageous situation in that it can allow immigration from Laos, Cambodia or 'Nam if need be which is all culturally close to their own
I'm not at all convinced this as true as you think it is.

Every Asian country is very homogenous
Staggeringly wrong.
 

Trunkage

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Every Asian country is very homogenous...
I'm assuming you have never met some from Asia before.

China is like 20 separate countries with vastly different people groups that are forced into a 'partnership' by the Han Chinese. No one likes the Han Chinese, even some of the Han, because they treat everyone like crap and force 'China' onto them. See similar example of how they treated Tibet and Nepal
 

stroopwafel

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I'm assuming you have never met some from Asia before.

China is like 20 separate countries with vastly different people groups that are forced into a 'partnership' by the Han Chinese. No one likes the Han Chinese, even some of the Han, because they treat everyone like crap and force 'China' onto them. See similar example of how they treated Tibet and Nepal
Every population can be divided into a million subdivisions. No point splitting hairs here. What I mean by homogenous is similair ethnicity and value systems. It would be the difference between an ethnic European with it's million and one different populations and a muslim from North Africa. Name one Asian country with race riots and domestic terrorism that isn't Islamic. These divisions and unrest is actually what the Chinese regime tries to prevent at all costs.
 

Revnak

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Every population can be divided into a million subdivisions. No point splitting hairs here. What I mean by homogenous is similair ethnicity and value systems. It would be the difference between an ethnic European with it's million and one different populations and a muslim from North Africa. Name one Asian country with race riots and domestic terrorism that isn't Islamic. These divisions and unrest is actually what the Chinese regime tries to prevent at all costs.
India
 

Agema

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Every population can be divided into a million subdivisions. No point splitting hairs here. What I mean by homogenous is similair ethnicity and value systems. It would be the difference between an ethnic European with it's million and one different populations and a muslim from North Africa. Name one Asian country with race riots and domestic terrorism that isn't Islamic. These divisions and unrest is actually what the Chinese regime tries to prevent at all costs.
So as long as we don't include major reasons for ethnic/cultural division, everything's harmonious? In much the same way, my dinner last night was vegetarian just as long as we don't count the chicken.

And you'd be wrong anyway: India, China, Sri Lanka, Laos, Cambodia and others have ethnic / cultural tensions and conflict unconnected to Islam. Just because you haven't bothered to check doesn't mean they don't exist.
 

Iron

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he just got BTFO'd.
So as long as we don't include major reasons for ethnic/cultural division, everything's harmonious? In much the same way, my dinner last night was vegetarian just as long as we don't count the chicken.

And you'd be wrong anyway: India, China, Sri Lanka, Laos, Cambodia and others have ethnic / cultural tensions and conflict unconnected to Islam. Just because you haven't bothered to check doesn't mean they don't exist.
He's mostly correct regarding China, though. It had gone through extensive cultural assimilation and oppression in its past and had homogenized over 95% of its population into the same general category (the fabled "Han", which they like to pretend to be). True there's the cultural divide between north and south regarding cuisine and old culture - but that's something that will fade away as well in time, thanks to the regime.
 

Agema

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He's mostly correct regarding China, though. It had gone through extensive cultural assimilation and oppression in its past and had homogenized over 95% of its population into the same general category (the fabled "Han", which they like to pretend to be). True there's the cultural divide between north and south regarding cuisine and old culture - but that's something that will fade away as well in time, thanks to the regime.
Sure, it has aggressively assimilated lots of groups over the years into its bracket of "Han" (although one could say the same about European countries: bear in mind in 1800 less than half the population of France spoke French as a first language). Never mind the vagaries of how these ethnic groups are actually defined. Whether some of these Han subgroups are really as "Han" as official deliniations suggest is open to question. As we also have experienced in Europe, populations that seemed well assimilated at one time can turn out to be surprisingly fond of emphasising their differences later.

But given the decades-long weeping sore of a human rights abuse that is Chinese rule over Tibet, never mind the more recent issues with the Uighars, it just stinks to casually pass off China as harmonious.
 

Iron

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Sure, it has aggressively assimilated lots of groups over the years into its bracket of "Han" (although one could say the same about European countries: bear in mind in 1800 less than half the population of France spoke French as a first language). Never mind the vagaries of how these ethnic groups are actually defined. Whether some of these Han subgroups are really as "Han" as official deliniations suggest is open to question. As we also have experienced in Europe, populations that seemed well assimilated at one time can turn out to be surprisingly fond of emphasising their differences later.

But given the decades-long weeping sore of a human rights abuse that is Chinese rule over Tibet, never mind the more recent issues with the Uighars, it just stinks to casually pass off China as harmonious.
Nobody cares about Tibetans or Uighurs, especially Han chinese. They are probably wholly unaware of what's happening there and are familiar with only the official narrative. I'd wager they think they're civilizing them, and that they should be thankful for it. Here's a nice analogy I was recently introduced to - imagine for a moment, if the Roman empire had managed to survive and promoted a "Roman" identity, one which the barbarian tribes of Germania and Sarmatia had decided to accept and assimilate into. I'd see a similar block in Europe, as is in China, of a homogeneous massive culture-group. The divergence in Europe is due to the disintegration of centralized rule. China had fallen into rivaling smaller kingdoms many times, but it had always been reformed in a couple of generations and expanded even further beyond its original borders.
 

Fieldy409

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I want us to take China to task, but right now they kind of have the world by the balls surely. I assume a lot of the medical gear we all so gravely need is being made in Chinese factories? I wish we had leaders who could slowly, sneakily reduce our reliance on China over a period of years until we're finally in a position to say it loud and proud without fearing their economic punishments: "Fuck you China and your human rights abuses!"

Instead we kind of just go along with them getting ever more reliant until occasionally pissing them off and getting fucked even more for it when they leverage our reliance on them. Like our barley farmers have learned with China putting an 80% tariff on their barley as punishment.
 

Iron

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I want us to take China to task, but right now they kind of have the world by the balls surely. I assume a lot of the medical gear we all so gravely need is being made in Chinese factories? I wish we had leaders who could slowly, sneakily reduce our reliance on China over a period of years until we're finally in a position to say it loud and proud without fearing their economic punishments: "Fuck you China and your human rights abuses!"

Instead we kind of just go along with them getting ever more reliant until occasionally pissing them off and getting fucked even more for it when they leverage our reliance on them. Like our barley farmers have learned with China putting an 80% tariff on their barley as punishment.
Australia is already lost to the Chinese.
 

Thaluikhain

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Nobody cares about Tibetans or Uighurs, especially Han chinese. They are probably wholly unaware of what's happening there and are familiar with only the official narrative. I'd wager they think they're civilizing them, and that they should be thankful for it.
Lots of places are harmonious if you discount people nobody cares about, though, and "civilising" them isn't an uncommon theme.

Not being snarky, I'm sure many, many people believe their country is harmonious because they just don't care about the people disharmony happens to, which is why it does.

Australia is already lost to the Chinese.
No.
 

Hawki

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Euro-Australians: We've lost our country to China.

Indigenous Australians: First time?

Snark aside, I'm kind of indifferent here. Australia's a middle power, and it'll never be a superpower, because we simply don't have the tech or population base for that. I don't think China cares that much about us, even if we're kind of in the middle of a diplomatic tit-for-tat. I'm far more concerned about US-China relations. Partly because of the Thucilidies Trap, partly because in the context of climate change, we need these countries to lead the fight. Right now, they're not. And as terrible as the situation with the Ughyrs and Tibet is, if I'm being selfish, they're issues at least confined to China's own borders.
 

Iron

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Lots of places are harmonious if you discount people nobody cares about, though, and "civilising" them isn't an uncommon theme.

Not being snarky, I'm sure many, many people believe their country is harmonious because they just don't care about the people disharmony happens to, which is why it does.



No.
People often don't even know about the outliers of their society. Half of Americans don't have a passport, and many don't know more than one language. Even worse, people don't often know their own neighbors, yet they can shovel half-assed tweets about poor oppressed people halfway across the world down their throats with pleasure.
Lel Australia is compromised, China had bought its political machine, it holds its academia by the balls, and is its biggest trade partner. Australia lives off China's demand for its metals, and it maintains its high standard of living through this trade. Last time I cared to read about it, China was buying large amounts of arable land (farmsteads) so they can guarantee supply of agricultural goods.
 

Thaluikhain

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Snark aside, I'm kind of indifferent here. Australia's a middle power, and it'll never be a superpower, because we simply don't have the tech or population base for that. I don't think China cares that much about us, even if we're kind of in the middle of a diplomatic tit-for-tat. I'm far more concerned about US-China relations. Partly because of the Thucilidies Trap, partly because in the context of climate change, we need these countries to lead the fight. Right now, they're not. And as terrible as the situation with the Ughyrs and Tibet is, if I'm being selfish, they're issues at least confined to China's own borders.
Agree with all that.

Lel Australia is compromised, China had bought its political machine, it holds its academia by the balls, and is its biggest trade partner. Australia lives off China's demand for its metals, and it maintains its high standard of living through this trade. Last time I cared to read about it, China was buying large amounts of arable land (farmsteads) so they can guarantee supply of agricultural goods.
China is Australia's biggest trading partner, and that's an important part of the Australian economy, yes. That is not to say Australia is lost to China.

Hell, if China ran Australia's politics we'd not have stupid political squabbles between Australia and China every few years.
 

Iron

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Agree with all that.



China is Australia's biggest trading partner, and that's an important part of the Australian economy, yes. That is not to say Australia is lost to China.

Hell, if China ran Australia's politics we'd not have stupid political squabbles between Australia and China every few years.
I don't want to do this fren, but I can waste 30 minutes of my life to go through archives and burst your bubble if I wanted to. Most of your politicians are compromised, all of your universities are compromised, China is buying estates and companies inside Australia (not mere investments). The political squabbles stem from people like you in power who don't realize it's already lost, and that they're a future colony of China unless something drastic happens. Otherwise it's bought politicians trying to show some push-back as a form of controlled opposition.
 

stroopwafel

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So as long as we don't include major reasons for ethnic/cultural division, everything's harmonious? In much the same way, my dinner last night was vegetarian just as long as we don't count the chicken.

And you'd be wrong anyway: India, China, Sri Lanka, Laos, Cambodia and others have ethnic / cultural tensions and conflict unconnected to Islam. Just because you haven't bothered to check doesn't mean they don't exist.
Borders are often arbitrarily drawn and conflicts will always exist for warring factions to consolidate power. That is why China is so adament to prevent this. But opposing factions inside a country is very different from irreconcilable internal divisions inside the population itself like the ones between western democracies and islam. That is why I said name one Asian country with race riots or domestic terrorism that isn't islamic. It's simple, there are none. Simply because the populations are homogenous in regard to ethnicity and value systems.
 

Hawki

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I don't want to do this fren, but I can waste 30 minutes of my life to go through archives and burst your bubble if I wanted to. Most of your politicians are compromised, all of your universities are compromised, China is buying estates and companies inside Australia (not mere investments). The political squabbles stem from people like you in power who don't realize it's already lost, and that they're a future colony of China unless something drastic happens. Otherwise it's bought politicians trying to show some push-back as a form of controlled opposition.
If all our politicians and universities are compromised, they're being awfully loud about it.
 

Trunkage

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I don't want to do this fren, but I can waste 30 minutes of my life to go through archives and burst your bubble if I wanted to. Most of your politicians are compromised, all of your universities are compromised, China is buying estates and companies inside Australia (not mere investments). The political squabbles stem from people like you in power who don't realize it's already lost, and that they're a future colony of China unless something drastic happens. Otherwise it's bought politicians trying to show some push-back as a form of controlled opposition.
How much do you think the Chinese have bought?