What are you currently playing?

[BrawlMan]

Finished Evil West on Normal mode.

It's great playing a game that is actually a game. No season passes. No dlc, other than pre-order/buy new skin code that comes with the game. No crafting. No forced competitive multiplayer. No long and forced walking sections. Just clear and simple arcade/over-the-top 3rd person shooting (with no cover mechanics; thank the Lord) that has emphasis on melee and a cool upgrade system. You get 16 chapters of this good shit.

My only complaint with the game is nearly all of the boss fights get way too much health, even on Normal. Which means playing on higher difficulties turns these into giant slogs. There are a total of 5 main bosses (the first boss pretty much becomes a standard enemy). The perk and upgrade system are cool, but it does that thing where if you want a specific and useful perk, you have to get the less powerful and spend a point to get to the better. Let me choose my new perk please. The weapon upgrades, don't have this issue. You can choose whatever upgrade you want as long as you have the cash available. There are some odd checkpoints too, but luckily, I didn't encounter a majority of them. Something everyone should know about still.

Evil West does have NG+ and I will play around with that later. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone.

 

[Gordon_4]

In DnD you can line up your shot all you want, if you roll a critical miss you can trip and fall and shoot yourself in the foot all the same, that's kinda where DA is coming from lol.


In practice it just gives you more time to use tactics since enemies won't be dying in 3 seconds though, it makes for a more slow paced and thoughtful experience. Less frantic than an action game. And if you're looking for that experience I question why you're looking for it in DA in the first place.

I got into Dragon Age on the recommendation of someone else when Origins was still new and thankfully the writing and lore and characters were enough to keep me engaged, it’s combat system is still one I rate as one of the worst ever implemented. If they wanted to go all tactical then it should have always been like that and been refined into something more like X-Com Enemy Unknown.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

I got into Dragon Age on the recommendation of someone else when Origins was still new and thankfully the writing and lore and characters were enough to keep me engaged, it’s combat system is still one I rate as one of the worst ever implemented. If they wanted to go all tactical then it should have always been like that and been refined into something more like X-Com Enemy Unknown.

Just to jump in an marry some comments I been thinking of making in a couple of threads, those semi realtime party based isometric RPGs are something I've never got on with. Starting with baldurs gate I've alway really wanted to like them for the setting and general concept of playing a PNP RPG on computer but they've never worked for me. I was going to get the DnD enhanced bundle on steam sale but decided against it because the combat I find to be such a slog. The ME/DA games also dropped partway through the 1st game for similar reasons.
Full turn based tactical OTOH, got Crown of Solasta a while back and although it isn't exactly a shining beacon of storytelling, voice acting etc it's actually enjoyable to play. Xcom also held my interest far more than ME.

 

[Gordon_4]

Just to jump in an marry some comments I been thinking of making in a couple of threads, those semi realtime party based isometric RPGs are something I've never got on with. Starting with baldurs gate I've alway really wanted to like them for the setting and general concept of playing a PNP RPG on computer but they've never worked for me. I was going to get the DnD enhanced bundle on steam sale but decided against it because the combat I find to be such a slog. The ME/DA games also dropped partway through the 1st game for similar reasons.
Full turn based tactical OTOH, got Crown of Solasta a while back and although it isn't exactly a shining beacon of storytelling, voice acting etc it's actually enjoyable to play. Xcom also held my interest far more than ME.

For what its worth, the Legendary Edition of Mass Effect redid the combat in the first game to make it baseline like the other two. Its still not as smooth a shooter since that wasn't its overarching philosophy but it means all classes can use all the guns at a normal, basic level. So if you're a shit shot, its because you the player are a shit shot. Not because the game is so intent on clinging to PnP conventions that acknowledged special forces soldier Shepard seems unfamiliar with a pistol.

 

[Dreiko]

I got into Dragon Age on the recommendation of someone else when Origins was still new and thankfully the writing and lore and characters were enough to keep me engaged, it’s combat system is still one I rate as one of the worst ever implemented. If they wanted to go all tactical then it should have always been like that and been refined into something more like X-Com Enemy Unknown.

Like mentioned earlier they kinda went into a have your cake and eat it too method in the game where half of it looked like Baldur's Gate and the rest like FFXII. And yeah the story and roleplaying is why you play DA of course. Though as far as gameplay goes I still prefer Origins to the sequels. Nowhere near as good as Divinity 2 or anything fully turn based of course.


While we're on the subject of Wrpgs, I noticed the existence of Pathfinder cause it was on sale on PSN, it came out a couple months ago but I totally overlooked it. Anyone play that? I'm quite tempted to get into it, the option of becoming a "gold dragon god" is too enticing to pass up. And they have other things like angels and demons and even staying human too. Looks pretty deep in the vein of Divinity 2.

Just to jump in an marry some comments I been thinking of making in a couple of threads, those semi realtime party based isometric RPGs are something I've never got on with. Starting with baldurs gate I've alway really wanted to like them for the setting and general concept of playing a PNP RPG on computer but they've never worked for me. I was going to get the DnD enhanced bundle on steam sale but decided against it because the combat I find to be such a slog. The ME/DA games also dropped partway through the 1st game for similar reasons.
Full turn based tactical OTOH, got Crown of Solasta a while back and although it isn't exactly a shining beacon of storytelling, voice acting etc it's actually enjoyable to play. Xcom also held my interest far more than ME.

Baldur's Gate is WEIRD on a first play, all of the game works off of rolls that take place for the most part in the background and if you're not pausing manually and reading what happened it can be confusing as all hell and doubly so if you're not familiar with second edition DnD (having a high armor rating is a bad thing, and having it be in the negatives is OP). Meanwhile Divinity retains all the depth but with a ton of modern improvements and full turn based gameplay. The two Divinity games are not all that related so I'd just jump on Divinity 2. They transpire thousands of years apart. Also 1 has kind of a slow start while 2 gets you in the action right off. Highly recommended if you wanna dive into this style of game.

 

[Worgen]

Baldur's Gate is WEIRD on a first play, and doubly so if you're not familiar with second edition DnD (having a high armor rating is a bad thing, and having it be in the negatives is OP).

So then does that mean that heavy armor would give you - armor rating but being naked would be a +?

 

[Dreiko]

So then does that mean that heavy armor would give you - armor rating but being naked would be a +?

Really good heavy armor would give you -, and average would give you single digit numbers. Naked you get +20. Basically the way dnd 2E works is that your armor rating subtracts from the attacker's roll if it's - and adds to it if it's +, so say if someone rolls for 20 damage and you're at +5 you'd take 25, which is why negative is really good cause it actually reduces damage. And if you think about it, this is not like DBZ where you can just be hit and not flinch or feel anything, so it's pretty rare for armor to completely negate damage.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Really good heavy armor would give you -, and average would give you single digit numbers. Naked you get +20. Basically the way dnd 2E works is that your armor rating subtracts from the attacker's roll if it's - and adds to it if it's +, so say if someone rolls for 20 damage and you're at +5 you'd take 25, which is why negative is really good cause it actually reduces damage. And if you think about it, this is not like DBZ where you can just be hit and not flinch or feel anything, so it's pretty rare for armor to completely negate damage.

So basically you want to build for evasion? I guess maybe they were trying to prevent players from just piling on armor and becoming invincible.

 

[Worgen]

Really good heavy armor would give you -, and average would give you single digit numbers. Naked you get +20. Basically the way dnd 2E works is that your armor rating subtracts from the attacker's roll if it's - and adds to it if it's +, so say if someone rolls for 20 damage and you're at +5 you'd take 25, which is why negative is really good cause it actually reduces damage. And if you think about it, this is not like DBZ where you can just be hit and not flinch or feel anything, so it's pretty rare for armor to completely negate damage.

Kinda sounds like they did it that way to try and simplify the math... or something.

 

[Dalisclock]

Finished Project Wingman. Really enjoyed it overall and man is it really a big fan of Ace Combat Zero but with more storytelling meat on it's bones then that game(I like AC0 but half the missions are totally forgettable and it's not a long game either). I appreciate there's some nod to actual military strategy in the campaign and it does seem to be a lot more cynical then AC normally is.

OTOH you have Crimson 1 who is just a complete Anime OOT Nutcase and he just carries the fuck out of the Villian Role of the game. THe fact he commits two MAJOR warcimes and during the final battle, he spends the entire battle ranting at you like a crazy person insisting all of this is YOUR fault. You MADE him commit those War Crimes because......REASONS. It's even worse when he tells you he's from Cascadia and it's his homeland He Nukes TWICE but he had to do it because you beat his ass in combat and THAT IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE YOU DIRTY MERC! Just the Sheer amount of Hamtastic ranting from him makes the whole thing fucking Hilarious in a very Darkly comedic way(which feels weird considering how very seriously the game takes itself otherwise). I'm pretty sure if he'd survived the final battle he would have found a way to blow up the earth or something just to show you how wrong you are for making him feel bad yet again.

It's very much channeling Pixy in the Meme dialogue department but Pixy was just Nihilistically broken after Hoffnung and Belka Nuking itself so much he wants to start a Nuclear War just to reset everything. OTOH, Crimson 1 seems to be doing all of this because you hurt his precious widdle feelings over and over again by being a better pilot than him.

Also I know I've mentioned this before but the music for the final boss battle is fucking amazing and wonderfully complements the crazy homeless guy ranting at you over the radio.

 

[Dreiko]

So basically you want to build for evasion? I guess maybe they were trying to prevent players from just piling on armor and becoming invincible.

No you just kinda are always gonna be injured after fights. You have to take time to rest (which you can do in most places) to heal up. Also magic spells are limited by usage numbers and those also recovery by resting, you don't have MP or anything, so you just kinda rest a bunch. Evasion is harder too cause you'd be so soft you'd get 1shot a lot (and revival is expeeeeensive), I think instead of a pure evasion build you dabble into it more than anything.

My playstyle is just hitting em harder than they hit me. And on that note it's actually very satisfying cause you sometimes can hit someone so hard your sword will literally break in the middle of the fight from a critical hit lol.

Kinda sounds like they did it that way to try and simplify the math... or something.

It's just an effect of having armor act as modifier to dice rolls. Like if you have a weapon you're skilled at you just add 2 to whatever you roll when attacking. It does a ton of stuff like that where rolls being affected is the main effect of gear and abilities, and if you're not used to it and are going into it expecting final fantasy style stats it can be very odd.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

Like mentioned earlier they kinda went into a have your cake and eat it too method in the game where half of it looked like Baldur's Gate and the rest like FFXII. And yeah the story and roleplaying is why you play DA of course. Though as far as gameplay goes I still prefer Origins to the sequels. Nowhere near as good as Divinity 2 or anything fully turn based of course.


While we're on the subject of Wrpgs, I noticed the existence of Pathfinder cause it was on sale on PSN, it came out a couple months ago but I totally overlooked it. Anyone play that? I'm quite tempted to get into it, the option of becoming a "gold dragon god" is too enticing to pass up. And they have other things like angels and demons and even staying human too. Looks pretty deep in the vein of Divinity 2.



Baldur's Gate is WEIRD on a first play, all of the game works off of rolls that take place for the most part in the background and if you're not pausing manually and reading what happened it can be confusing as all hell and doubly so if you're not familiar with second edition DnD (having a high armor rating is a bad thing, and having it be in the negatives is OP). Meanwhile Divinity retains all the depth but with a ton of modern improvements and full turn based gameplay. The two Divinity games are not all that related so I'd just jump on Divinity 2. They transpire thousands of years apart. Also 1 has kind of a slow start while 2 gets you in the action right off. Highly recommended if you wanna dive into this style of game.

Yeah It's kinda turn based, but the turns go by automatically. I really didn't like it. Semi turn based just didn't work. Setting it to pause pretty much any time anything happened was horribly slow and the lack of hexes and patching info didn't help.

2nd ed is the only ruleset I am familiar with and it is brutal at low level. In a PNP it doesn't matter because you can always work round combat and roleplay or think outside the box. CRPGs can't really do that. Those early ones could automate the combat and show you some nice visuals for the time, but that was about it.
Tried divinity one, didn't like it. Is 2 much different?

 

[Zykon TheLich]

Really good heavy armor would give you -, and average would give you single digit numbers. Naked you get +20. Basically the way dnd 2E works is that your armor rating subtracts from the attacker's roll if it's - and adds to it if it's +, so say if someone rolls for 20 damage and you're at +5 you'd take 25, which is why negative is really good cause it actually reduces damage. And if you think about it, this is not like DBZ where you can just be hit and not flinch or feel anything, so it's pretty rare for armor to completely negate damage.

It's been a long time since I played but ... Naked human was AC 10. So you had to roll a 10+ on a D20 to hit with a thaco of 20. THAC0 was "to hit armour class 0"

Armour didn't reduce damage, it made you harder to hit. You rolled to hit and armour affected the number you needed to roll. If you hit you then rolled for full damage.

So if I have a thaco of 20 and I'm attacking someone with AC 4 (splint mail IIRC) then I have to roll a 16 on a D20. Full plate AC0 I'd need a 20. Unarmoured human AC10 I'd need a 10.
Damage is separate and unaffected by armour.

All a bit mind bending until you get your head around it.

 

[Dreiko]

Yeah It's kinda turn based, but the turns go by automatically. I really didn't like it. Semi turn based just didn't work. Setting it to pause pretty much any time anything happened was horribly slow and the lack of hexes and patching info didn't help.

2nd ed is the only ruleset I am familiar with and it is brutal at low level. In a PNP it doesn't matter because you can always work round combat and roleplay or think outside the box. CRPGs can't really do that. Those early ones could automate the combat and show you some nice visuals for the time, but that was about it.
Tried divinity one, didn't like it. Is 2 much different?

I had a complex layout of when it should pause, pausing on everything slowed it down way too much for sure, I think I paused at around 40% of the things you could. It took some fiddling to get it to a good rhythm.


Divninity 2 is more serious and dire than 1, the feel of the world is cooler and I just love the detail that goes into everything, including how many sheer choices you can make that have notable different outcomes, but the gameplay is more of a straight up evolution so if you didn't like the first one I doubt you'd love it.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

I had a complex layout of when it should pause, pausing on everything slowed it down way too much for sure, I think I paused at around 40% of the things you could. It took some fiddling to get it to a good rhythm.

I did try that but I lacked the patience to get it right. I think I might have made it to baldurs gate on one run but otherwise just got frustrated and quit way before. It's a shame, I've missed out on some classic DnD experiences because of it, but now I have the patience games have moved on and I don't think it's worth going back.

 

[Dreiko]

I did try that but I lacked the patience to get it right. I think I might have made it to baldurs gate on one run but otherwise just got frustrated and quit way before. It's a shame, I've missed out on some classic DnD experiences because of it, but now I have the patience games have moved on and I don't think it's worth going back.

For sure, also check out the new Pathfinder thing too (Righteous Wrath or something, the one that came out on ps4 a few months ago), I looked into it a bit more and people say it's the closest thing to BG2, closer than even 3 which was made by the divinity people, but it's also newly made so it is a lot less clunky than the older games. I decided to jump on it after I finish Chained Echoes. (which is getting to the last stretch at about 50 hours in and a million crazy things keep happening, all of which are epic and awesome, mech battles galore and all sorts of gods and timeless beings showing up)

 

[Zykon TheLich]

For sure, also check out the new Pathfinder thing too (Righteous Wrath or something, the one that came out on ps4 a few months ago), I looked into it a bit more and people say it's the closest thing to BG2, closer than even 3 which was made by the divinity people, but it's also newly made so it is a lot less clunky than the older games. I decided to jump on it after I finish Chained Echoes. (which is getting to the last stretch at about 50 hours in and a million crazy things keep happening, all of which are epic and awesome, mech battles galore and all sorts of gods and timeless beings showing up)

I was looking at that recently, it's 60% off on steam atm. I heard bad things about Kingmaker when it came out but Wrath of the righteous seems pretty well reviewed.
Solasta really got me hankering for some larger budget party based DnD style action but I suspect it's the fully turn based/hex grid style combat that I'm liking where other better produced stuff hasn't held my interest for long. I've tried a good few of the semi real-time ones over the years but the combat systems just don't work so well for me. Baldurs gate, dragon age, pillars of eternity, divinity original sin, original fallouts. Neverwinter Nights 2 might have been ok, but after the 5th or so time I had to restart due to a game breaking bug I gave up.

 

[Dreiko]

I was looking at that recently, it's 60% off on steam atm. I heard bad things about Kingmaker when it came out but Wrath of the righteous seems pretty well reviewed.
Solasta really got me hankering for some larger budget party based DnD style action but I suspect it's the fully turn based/hex grid style combat that I'm liking where other better produced stuff hasn't held my interest for long. I've tried a good few of the semi real-time ones over the years but the combat systems just don't work so well for me. Baldurs gate, dragon age, pillars of eternity, divinity original sin, original fallouts. Neverwinter Nights 2 might have been ok, but after the 5th or so time I had to restart due to a game breaking bug I gave up.

Never played Kingmaker so no clue about that one, but yeah it seems the new one is better by a mile and standalone so I kinda think of em as separate franchises or like different campaigns in the same ruleset. Also I'm fond of the customization they describe, how you can become a bunch of different beings based on choices you make more so than just selecting stats as you start the game. I'm a sucker for those kinds of things. One of the things I loved in DA:O in fact was how they tied the advanced jobs to story missions and you could do a playthrough and just not unlock blood mage or something, it made em feel more special. And of course once you know where to get each you can kinda design a playthrough around it, my last playthrough was based on that ensouled gem quest that gives you the mage fighter job, was a ton of fun.

 

[meiam]

The pathfinder game have really fun class customization, but gameplay wise they're pretty meh because PnP doesn't translate that well to video game. You spend most fight wiffing so they drag on like crazy and fight can go either way based on one roll. Like maybe the enemy cast some sort of fear ability at the start of the fight, if your guy resist it the fight is a cake and might as well not be there but if most of your guys get affected, well you already lost the fight and may as well reload. There's also the rest problem, you can almost always rest anywhere, which means you can go all out in every fight and burn all your massive spell with not much of a downside. Actually the only downside is that you'll have to spend 5 minutes casting 50+ buff spell on all your guy after every rest.

Both game also have a mechanic that's really not needed, in kingmaker the kingdom management is really not that interesting (think really crappy 4x) and there's constantly some form of time limit which can completely screw you over if you don't look at a guide ahead of time. In Wrath of the Righteous, there's the world worst version of heroes of might and magic to play between dungeon.

imo the most fun is to plan your character at the start of the game, after that it's all downhill. I'd say the pillar of eternity are better.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

The pathfinder game have really fun class customization, but gameplay wise they're pretty meh because PnP doesn't translate that well to video game.

imo the most fun is to plan your character at the start of the game, after that it's all downhill. I'd say the pillar of eternity are better.

Sounds much like BG then. Wasn't a fan of PoE either. Oh well...