What do people actually want male gamers to be like?

[Glen Compton]

Class is being ignored so much, and it pisses me the fuck off.

I couldn't agree more!

I think maybe the fact that the "one percent" in western culture tends to be predominantly white though gives the wrong impression about how far that privilege stretches across class.

Why do you think people are misappropriating the concept of privilege? It is, without a doubt, a popular trend. I don't get the impression that people see how overtly prejudiced these conversation sound and then act like they are having an academic discussion.

 

[Glen Compton]

Can you point out the line in the EULA that says I can't ask for more diversity, more variety, in my video game protagonists?

So I'm gonna keep asking. And I'm gonna keep mocking them every time I get yet another 30-ish white guy with brown hair, most likely closely cropped, and a five-o-clock shadow.

I guess I would have to ask what your obsession with race or gender is? It sort of feels like a porn fetish to me.

Then you are a very strange person.

Well I suppose should elaborate.

I would understand a desire for more diversity in the type of games or the type of story being told in a game. I am all for this as well.

If a games story includes or stars a minority, then that is fine. I will still judge that game based on it's gameplay and/or plot all the same.

Yet to complain about games that do not have them seems like a superficial complaint based on preference. The reason i made the parallel to pornography was because it was one of the few things I could think of where preferring a particular race or gender over another is generally considered "okay."

I think more people should be out there making diverse games, with diverse gameplay, diverse characters, and diverse stories, but I DO NOT think people who aren't deserve mockery for not doing so.

 

[entelechy]

I think you're playing the "pretend these problems don't exist" game. If real life were an RPG where you only get to make one character, and you wanted to stack the most bonuses -- you'd roll up a straight, white male. (Maybe you would roll up something different if you like a challenge, but that would just be admitting that the bonuses favor straight, white men.)

I'm saying that 'women have it worse then men when you add everything up' is an opinion.

An opinion held by anyone with a lick of sense. But do go on being pedantic about this.

And privileged is really bad rhetoric. The word invokes images of people who live in luxury and don't have any huge struggles (except maybe the unavoidable ones like a death in the family). So you have to spend time explaining to people who take offense at it.

Strangely, the concept only really seems to be difficult for people who want to pretend these problems don't exist. Most people get it with one explanation. The ones that don't all share a hostility towards social justice. That must be pure coincidence, though.

 

[entelechy]

I feel like this statement illustrates that this conversation about "privilege" really is a cover for prejudiced shaming of people for Race,Gender, and Sex.

You are literally calling out groups to target.

I have no idea how you extract such an ugly meaning from a clear statement.

All I said was that if you wanted to put life on easy mode, you'd play as a straight, white, male. There is no "targeting" or scorn. It's not like it's a white person's fault that it's more convenient to be white. It just is.

Telling people they don't deserve the things they worked for will only insult them, and drawing lines will just makes racism worse.

These are not things they worked for. These are the bonuses they get with no effort at all. In fact, it is incredibly fucking insensitive for a member of a privileged group to deny this and act like every last bit of their gains is purely due to their individual talents.

 

[Glen Compton]

I feel like this statement illustrates that this conversation about "privilege" really is a cover for prejudiced shaming of people for Race,Gender, and Sex.

You are literally calling out groups to target.

I have no idea how you extract such an ugly meaning from a clear statement.

All I said was that if you wanted to put life on easy mode, you'd play as a straight, white, male.

Astonishing how I inferred your clear prejudice in statements such as these.

 

[Glen Compton]

I feel like this statement illustrates that this conversation about "privilege" really is a cover for prejudiced shaming of people for Race,Gender, and Sex.

You are literally calling out groups to target.

I have no idea how you extract such an ugly meaning from a clear statement.

All I said was that if you wanted to put life on easy mode, you'd play as a straight, white, male.

Astonishing how I inferred your clear prejudice in statements such as these.

A prejudice towards truth. It offsets your prejudice against reading comprehension.

Seriously, are you really this thick or are you just trying to bait me?

So petty insults is the best you have for a defense?
I am pretty sure what you have said speaks for itself.

 

[Dragonlayer]

[

People want male gamers to be more like me: flawless and moustached.

You can't be both

*Gasp*

BLASPHEMY!

 

[WhiteNachos]

I think you're playing the "pretend these problems don't exist" game. If real life were an RPG where you only get to make one character, and you wanted to stack the most bonuses -- you'd roll up a straight, white male. (Maybe you would roll up something different if you like a challenge, but that would just be admitting that the bonuses favor straight, white men.)

I'm saying that 'women have it worse then men when you add everything up' is an opinion.

An opinion held by anyone with a lick of sense. But do go on being pedantic about this.

It's not pedantic to say that you're stating an opinion as a fact. And you really think "everyone with sense agrees with my opinion"? Really? Do you just not want to consider the idea you might be wrong?

You're saying all women in every country/culture have it worse than the men in those same places (because that's what it means to say all women are privileged)? You know not every problem men have to put up with is some minor issue so since we're comparing significant issues it's a bold claim to say it's always worse for women everywhere. Back it up.

And privileged is really bad rhetoric. The word invokes images of people who live in luxury and don't have any huge struggles (except maybe the unavoidable ones like a death in the family). So you have to spend time explaining to people who take offense at it.

Strangely, the concept only really seems to be difficult for people who want to pretend these problems don't exist.

Every time someone first hears the term they always think 'are you saying I don't have problems in life', regardless of what they believe. And if this is some passive aggressive shot at me, I've never said women don't have problems.

Most people get it with one explanation. The ones that don't all share a hostility towards social justice. That must be pure coincidence, though.

If it requires explanation why use it all? It's like calling people bastards then having to explain 'oh no I'm not calling you a bad person, I'm saying your parents aren't married, you bastard'. At best its ineffective communication because you have to waste time explaining it and at worst it's passive aggressive.

 

[WhiteNachos]

I feel like this statement illustrates that this conversation about "privilege" really is a cover for prejudiced shaming of people for Race,Gender, and Sex.

You are literally calling out groups to target.

I have no idea how you extract such an ugly meaning from a clear statement.

All I said was that if you wanted to put life on easy mode, you'd play as a straight, white, male.

Saying someone's life is on easy mode is no different than saying their life is easy. Straight white male leaves room for extreme poverty, birth defects, mental or physical handicaps, abusive parents, and all sorts of other horrible things. Anyone who says they'd rather be a poor white man than the daughter of a rich black couple (all else being equal) is probably lying.

Telling people they don't deserve the things they worked for will only insult them, and drawing lines will just makes racism worse.

These are not things they worked for. These are the bonuses they get with no effort at all. In fact, it is incredibly fucking insensitive for a member of a privileged group to deny this and act like every last bit of their gains is purely due to their individual talents.

Has calling someone's disagreements insensitive ever been convincing? I mean to me it just makes it seem like the person can't handle disagreements.

 

[entelechy]

So petty insults is the best you have for a defense?
I am pretty sure what you have said speaks for itself.

No seriously, your argument makes no sense. Stating that being white makes life easier than being black is not racism, it's just an observation of reality. Are you contending that racism occurs as soon as I mention the categories white and black? Because if that's what you're saying than you are essentially arguing that any discussion of racial disparities that mentions race is automatically racist. Which is to say, you are arguing that we can't talk about such disparities at all. That is fucking ridiculous. You don't get to call my views racist because you're allergic to discussion.

 

[entelechy]

Saying someone's life is on easy mode is no different than saying their life is easy. Straight white male leaves room for extreme poverty, birth defects, mental or physical handicaps, abusive parents, and all sorts of other horrible things. Anyone who says they'd rather be a poor white man than the daughter of a rich black couple (all else being equal) is probably lying.

Yes, there are other kinds of privilege. I fully agree. But, let's go back to the character creation analogy. While it's true that being born into wealth grants better bonuses than being white, or male, or straight, you can stack those bonuses. Even if poor, straight, white male has lower total bonuses than rich, black, gay female -- you could still switch any of the latter three options for even better bonuses.

The term male privilege refers to the net positive effect of being male. This effect could easily be dwarfed by, say, being disabled. But the effect is still there.

 

[Glen Compton]

So petty insults is the best you have for a defense?
I am pretty sure what you have said speaks for itself.

No seriously, your argument makes no sense. Stating that being white makes life easier than being black is not racism, it's just an observation of reality. Are you contending that racism occurs as soon as I mention the categories white and black? Because if that's what you're saying than you are essentially arguing that any discussion of racial disparities that mentions race is automatically racist. Which is to say, you are arguing that we can't talk about such disparities at all. That is fucking ridiculous. You don't get to call my views racist because you're allergic to discussion.

Nope, I am saying your approach to the conversation reveals prejudice on your part.

Some people consider race an important part of their identity, to ignore that part of a person who identifies themselves that way, would be an insult.

On the other hand, making assumptions about someone's experiences in life based on their race, well that reveals prejudice. You can only testify to your OWN experiences in life. You can try to be empathetic to people as a thought experiment, but you don't get assume what life IS like for them based on what you THINK it would be like. Even as a member of a particular demographic, you do not represent the group, but only yourself. Ideology is great but can cloud judgment, and statistics can be skewed to make any point, what is important in topics like these are to share your OWN experiences, not make assumptions about others.

More to the point, what is life like for you? What have you experienced that reflects your views?

 

[WhiteNachos]

Saying someone's life is on easy mode is no different than saying their life is easy. Straight white male leaves room for extreme poverty, birth defects, mental or physical handicaps, abusive parents, and all sorts of other horrible things. Anyone who says they'd rather be a poor white man than the daughter of a rich black couple (all else being equal) is probably lying.

Yes, there are other kinds of privilege. I fully agree. But, let's go back to the character creation analogy. While it's true that being born into wealth grants better bonuses than being white, or male, or straight, you can stack those bonuses. Even if poor, straight, white male has lower total bonuses than rich, black, gay female -- you could still switch any of the latter three options for even better bonuses.

The term male privilege refers to the net positive effect of being male. This effect could easily be dwarfed by, say, being disabled. But the effect is still there.

I know what the term means, but calling it easy mode is insulting.

 

[entelechy]

First you said this:

Has calling someone's disagreements insensitive ever been convincing? I mean to me it just makes it seem like the person can't handle disagreements.

Then you said this:

I know what the term means, but calling it easy mode is insulting.

So, therefore, we can conclude that you can't handle disagreements.

 

[entelechy]

On the other hand, making assumptions about someone's experiences in life based on their race, well that reveals prejudice. You can only testify to your OWN experiences in life.

I'm sorry I didn't realize you were taking a hard stance against induction. Or do we only get to discuss the general impact of a being in a category when that category isn't race or gender? If so, isn't it prejudiced for you to demand special rules of logic when talking about this topic alone?

 

[Glen Compton]

I'm sorry I didn't realize you were taking a hard stance against induction.

When your inductive reasoning results in the adoption of prejudice, I would hope YOU would want to correct that.

Or do we only get to discuss the general impact of a being in a category when that category isn't race or gender?

No this is what I actually asked you to do, instead of focusing on the experiences of others.

 

[WhiteNachos]

First you said this:

Has calling someone's disagreements insensitive ever been convincing? I mean to me it just makes it seem like the person can't handle disagreements.

Then you said this:

I know what the term means, but calling it easy mode is insulting.

So, therefore, we can conclude that you can't handle disagreements.

I was talking about your choice of words, not your arguments that were insulting.

 

[jademunky]

[

People want male gamers to be more like me: flawless and moustached.

You can't be both

*Gasp*

BLASPHEMY!

Oh I kid.

But seriously, mustaches are awful. I am not just saying that because I am incapable of growing one that does not make me look homeless.