What do you have against The Witcher series?

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Vendor-Lazarus

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I've just played the original Witcher so I can't speak for any sequels.

I could overlook the tacked on sexy stuff. I kind of liked the setting and theme.
If pushed, I could live with the very clunky combat..

What absolutely killed it for me is the camera.
For the life of me I cannot get around playing an entire game in a skewed perspective..I just cant.
The isometric camera feels like it missing lots of features, such as zoom and being movable.
An immovable camera does not play well with the combat at all.

In a nutshell, that one thing ruined the entire experience for me? The camera.
Which is also a part of the reason I wont be playing Elite: Dangerous or Star Citizen either.
 

Haerthan

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Zhukov said:
Boo!

Firstly, I'm not remotely interested in getting into a wank-off between Bioware and The Witcher. If the best you can say about a game is, "That other game is worse", then how good can it be?

Secondly, my experience with the series is a brief foray into the first game and a complete run of the second game.

The first game was just plain awful. Looked like shit, janky animation, characters that look and talk like ventriloquist's dummies, empty and lifeless environments. Combat was shit, you just select the appropriate move set then click when the little curser lights up. Whoop-dee-fucking-doo. Voice acting was extra special shit, bored sounding amateurs everywhere. (And yes, I played the "enhanced edition" which apparently had improved voice acting, I hate to think what the non-enhanced version sounded like.) I got to the first quest hub and decided I had better ways to spend my leisure time.

The second game initially impressed me. There's a thread somewhere in the depths of these forums [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.285308-The-Witcher-2-Assassins-of-Kings-Pleasantly-surprised#11252180] in which I praise the game and encourage people to check it out. That was written by me when I was part way into the first act (the town of Flotsam).

However, after the first act the pacing went straight to hell. The second act dragged like an injured leg. By the third act I was bored out of my gourd and just going through the motions.

The combat was unimpressive. The controls have this awkward delay on them and were clearly designed with the console release in mind. That's when they weren't just plain bugging out on me. You're nearly halfway through the game before you can unlock enough options to spice things up a bit. Too little, too late.

Checkpoint placement and saves. Oh Christ. This is where the game really lost me. Remember the fight with the battlefield demon... thing? So if it kills you, (because, oh, random example, my controls just bugged out for the thirtieth time) you have to watch a short unskippable cutscene, then watch two NPCs have an unscripted fight, then you have to fight a handful of random enemies while using a gimped character that can't dodge, parry or use items and abilities, then walk down a path, skip through some shitty dialogue, fight a miniboss and finally skip some more shitty dialogue before finally getting another crack at the actual boss fight. And no, you cannot save during any of that. What kind of base incompetence causes a developer to not put a checkpoint before a fucking boss fight?

After that I just said, "Fuck you game, prepare to be cheesed." Then I crafted a bajillion bombs and spammed them for the entire rest of the game. Worked like a treat.

Characters were boring as shit. Geralt is an emotionless, expressionless drone who stabs and fucks. But hey, maybe they were going for a blank slate sort of protagonist, so let's see who else there is. Triss. She gets her tits out a couple of times, then sits at a bar for a while before getting kidnapped for the rest of the game. No personality to speak of (seriously, try to name one personality trait for her). Then there's the dwarf. He's... a dwarf. Can't think of a single thing about him. Then there's the bard, I think his name was Dandelion. He's a bard. He's a bit of a ladies man, or thinks he is. Can't think of anything else about him. There's Roche, who at least has consistent and coherent motivations. Great, we've reached the 101 level of character writing. Oh, and there's his right hand girl who'll fuck you if you beat her in a fight.

The only character I felt remotely attached to was Iorveth. I liked his world-weary affect. Gave him some actual personality which put him head and fucking shoulders above the rest of the cast. Although on reflection I'm not sure if that was intentional or if his voice actor was just flat.

The sex thing. Okay, so Geralt and Triss are a couple. Cool. They have sex from time to time. Makes sense. The game is very matter-of-fact about that. Yay maturity.
Hey look, continuous allusions to rape. Well, fine, makes sense in context.
Hey look, here are some prostitutes making out with each other in their spare time. Because that's totally what prostitutes do. Ooooookay. I thought we were being mature here?
Hey look, the mage chick is whipping her assistant with a crop. Hot, right? Yeah, getting into fanservice territory now. Especially given that its not remotely relevant to anything at all.
Hey look, "lesbomancy". Aaaaaaand you've lost me.

The story did not impress. It starts off strong and focussed. King assassinated, Geralt blamed. Find assassin, clear name. Gotcha. Then act 2 bogs everything down in fantasy politics. Okay, fine, the story is expanding, I can dig that. Then act 3 rolls around and all the politics boils down to "The evil empire was being evil again". Yay. Oh, and the whole Assassin of Kings thread boils down to "They payed me", "Oh, okay then, peace out". Couple that with not giving a shit about the characters and I was well and truly done.

...

Hey, you asked for it.

I should note that, despite my seething, petulant disdain for The Witcher, I do quite like CD Project and I am at least curious about that Cyberpunk game they have in the works.
Damn man, yoou really hated it didnt you? But you still gotta admit the lesbomancy part was hilarious as fuck. Lost my shit when the lesbomancy and whipping scenes popped up. Really funny shit.
 

BathorysGraveland2

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As someone who's a massive fan of the franchise (even so far as to read all the crappy fan translations of the books), I'll freely admit one problem present with both games is an overall lack of polish. It's exceptionally rough around the edges in regards to movement, camera control and the transition of cut scenes to real time. Quite janky in places. I can certainly put up with the flaws for everything else it offers, but I can understand why others cannot.
 

sonofliber

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Lol

Gerald is suppost to be like that, he is a mutant, he barely qualifies as a man, why does everyone want to fuck him? Magic + impotence + no illness + not a shit lot to do. Same reason why a lot of mages are nimphos

You want to know why it considered mature? It deals with political turmoil, racism, ugly facets of the war.


Also fuck ciri, bloody retard ****.
 

NemotheElvenPanda

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My only issue with the games are that they're so difficult and that there's so much to do at once. The acts usually feel drawn out and getting missions done can take more time and effort than they should. My two cents; the games excel at pretty much everything else in my option and experience.
 

omega 616

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May 1, 2009
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To me, it's like they went out of their way to make it needlessly complex. One sword for monsters and one for humans? Can the monster one not as easily kill humans?

Been awhile since I thought about that game, so I can't think of any other examples but I do remember yahtzee gives a pretty good summation on why I don't like it.
 

Zhukov

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Dec 29, 2009
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Haerthan said:
Zhukov said:
[Le snip]
Damn man, yoou really hated it didnt you? But you still gotta admit the lesbomancy part was hilarious as fuck. Lost my shit when the lesbomancy and whipping scenes popped up. Really funny shit.
I... can't say I found either of those scenes all that funny.

They just struck me as fanservice. "Hey look, some sex! Please love me!" Which isn't the worst thing in the world, but it doesn't jive with the "OMG, so mature" thing I keep hearing. It's about as mature as a bunch of thirteen year old boys sniggering over a porno they found.
 

Casual Shinji

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I only played The Witcher 2, and I really didn't make it very far into that one.

I don't mind the grimdark, and I don't mind the naughty bits (of what I've seen).

It's the action gameplay that can fuck right off. It's horrendous. The game states I need to prepare with potions and shit before engaging in most battles, but how the hell is that an efficient strategy when I don't know when I'll run into anything while adventuring? It's like a hindsight mechanic; *runs into pack of wolves* 'Oh darn, shoulda popped some potions beforehand.' Or what, am I supposed to constantly save and reload my game everytime I encounter any enemy? Ugh... Seriously, I'm sure it's looked down upon by the PC community, but just make it a hack 'n slasher so we atleast have satisfying action.

And apparently this was the optimized version of the game. *cough*

Then there's the characters who for all I know might be extremely deep and interesting, but the voice acting of whom is so fucking blasé and uncommited that I don't give a rat's ass about anything they're saying. It's like the entire cast of characters consists of Bioware protagonists... that aren't Jennifer Hale.
 

CpT_x_Killsteal

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Jun 21, 2012
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I'm on the fifth act of the first, and I've played through the prolonged tutorial of the second.

I don't understand the criticisms everyone gives it. Either, they're too small to matter, or they just seem wrong (to me).

While the combat is old school, I wouldn't call it clunky by any means. It was actually quite simple.
I'm a perv, so the sex cards didn't bother me.
The characters were interesting regardless of what anyone says, you just have to actually talk to them and think. People have gotten too used to Bioware games and no longer understand subtlety.
I'm not sure grim-dark is the right name for it. Yes it's a shitty place surrounded by monsters, deadly political intrigue, and impending race wars, but many of the characters are actually trying to make the best of the situation, or atleast live with a purpose and some dignity. If it was grim-dark they'd all be either depressed or violent.

I don't know, maybe what other people see as scars, I see as marks of beauty.

erttheking said:
I don't know what the hell happened but I was constantly being told to investigate people I had never heard of before and had the ability to accuse the investigator of not being honest with me when I had no fucking idea why I would want to do that. BUT APPARENTLY I WAS SUPPOSED TO!
From what I can remember, you're amulet goes nuts when you're near him, detecting magic. There was more to it than that, but I can't recall it from memory.
 

Tsun Tzu

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I actually own both games (sales over on GoG and steam...I'm weak) and haven't played through either.

The game mechanics immediately sour me on the experience. Too cumbersome, feels janky, UI isn't exactly what I'd call friendly, potions pre-combat, etc.

But...I bought them.

Why? It's CD Projekt Red.

The "Good Guy Greg" of developers.
 

endtherapture

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SajuukKhar said:
endtherapture said:
it's just all there and feels normal.
That's the problem though it doesn't feel normal, it feels like they deliberately put it there just so they could go LOL BEWBS!
Maybe to you, but it depends how much you see boobs in your every day life ;) For example, I find it's showing of boobs in the beginning with Triss a mature approach. Let's be honest, when you're sleeping with a girl, you're allowed to see her tits. So after a night of sex (what adult couples involve in) and sharing a bed, it's very likely that your girlfriend is just gonna go to sleep naked as she feels comfortable with you, thus tits. I find it more refreshing than fantasy medieval characters wearing weird cloth bras to maintain their dignity.
 

Uriel_Hayabusa

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I like and have finished the first two games; but they weren't perfect. Both had really clunky menus and their fair share of glitches. The second game also had that dwarf city that was a chore to navigate.
 

Haerthan

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Zhukov said:
Haerthan said:
Zhukov said:
[Le snip]
Damn man, yoou really hated it didnt you? But you still gotta admit the lesbomancy part was hilarious as fuck. Lost my shit when the lesbomancy and whipping scenes popped up. Really funny shit.
I... can't say I found either of those scenes all that funny.

They just struck me as fanservice. "Hey look, some sex! Please love me!" Which isn't the worst thing in the world, but it doesn't jive with the "OMG, so mature" thing I keep hearing. It's about as mature as a bunch of thirteen year old boys sniggering over a porno they found.
Well I know I am immature, so I know I found them funny. Otherwise the scenes were ok. Didn't think they were that fanservicey though. I understand where you are coming from. And the mature thing comes from its dealing of politics. At least in my eyes.
 

Kingjackl

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What I have against it is that The Witcher 2 didn't run on my computer when I bought it. That's normally fine, seeing as my computer isn't that good and I don't expect to be able to play those kinds of games on it.

The problem is, it's also one of those games that the master race crowd shove in your face constantly, to remind you of the status and power you will never wield. I've watched Game of Thrones, I don't think I'm missing much from the Witcher that I haven't already seen.
 

Casual Shinji

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Kingjackl said:
The problem is, it's also one of those games that the master race crowd shove in your face constantly, to remind you of the status and power you will never wield.
I thought they did that with every damn game on the PC.

But if that is the representation of their power, I'm more than content in my little console mud pool.
 

TravelerSF

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Lol, and I thought I was the only person on Earth who had a bone to pick with The Witcher :D

And I DESPISE the second game (haven't played the first one), despite acknowledging that it's a good game overall.

From a gameplay standpoint I was constantly frustrated. The combat has a delay which makes you constantly feel like you're not truly in control of Geralt. The menus and inventory are overly complicated, the quests can be instantly failed without a warning and upgrading and crafting felt troublesome.

But what breaks it for me is the story. The thing is, I don't care about these characters or even the world. I constantly felt that almost everyone was out to stab me in the back and that everything around me would constantly keep going down the shitter no matter what I tried to do. And I can take dark and "mature". I enjoy Game of Thrones because despite it's grim world it has characters I WANT to see survive and that I enjoy spending time with. Witcher didn't have any of that.

What strikes me as most odd is when people describe Witcher as being "mature" when talking about it's depiction of sex. Now, I have no problems with the brothels and whatnot. That makes sense, that is okay. But don't freaking expect me to take things seriously when every major female character looks like a plastic doll and has her tits constantly hanging out in the open. This is not about social justice. This is about immersion and good world building.

And then there's the moment which made me absolutely DISGUSTED. It's when
Ves gets raped. What in the actual F*** CD Project?! You had this strong, capable, fierce warrior woman and you do THIS to her? She gets raped and turns into a sobbing, fragile girl who needs her man friends to make things right for her. Screw that! You want to get her raped, fine, but breaking her like that goes against everything the character stood for! Why couldn't she be like: "Ok, great to see you guys are here. Now you can help me to hunt this bastard king down so I can cut his balls off"?Oh, and that's it for her! She's nowhere to be seen after that incident. Her whole point in the game was to get raped!
 

endtherapture

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evilthecat said:
That said, I'm not even sure the Witcher managed to get that far. It basically struck me as a standard heroic narrative in which all the "white" had been arbitrarily replaced by more "black". Geralt himself was and is not a realistic or understated character, he's a walking mess of badass antihero cliches nicked absolutely shamelessly from the Elric series. But the real crime is that the story completely contradicts the whole use of a game as a framing device. Geralt's dialogue is all about how passive and world-weary he is and how he don't give a shit 'bout noone, man, but he's still following the RPG hero 101 book, slaying wolves and rescuing maidens. The only difference is that the post-rescue sex is left in, and yeah, that whole thing with every female character in the game left a really bad taste in my mouth (lol). I think the point at which I officially gave up was the nurse threesome which, we are lead to believe, took place in a plague hospital.
I think you've misunderstood the character of Geralt.

Geralt doesn't care about nobody and nothing. He cares about himself, his fellow Witchers, and his friends. That means Triss, Shani, The Witchers, Zoltan and Dandelion. They're his mates, and he does everything he does for them. Beyond that, even though Geralt seems not to care, you can role play him as caring.

Haerthan said:
Zhukov said:
Haerthan said:
Zhukov said:
[Le snip]
Damn man, yoou really hated it didnt you? But you still gotta admit the lesbomancy part was hilarious as fuck. Lost my shit when the lesbomancy and whipping scenes popped up. Really funny shit.
I... can't say I found either of those scenes all that funny.

They just struck me as fanservice. "Hey look, some sex! Please love me!" Which isn't the worst thing in the world, but it doesn't jive with the "OMG, so mature" thing I keep hearing. It's about as mature as a bunch of thirteen year old boys sniggering over a porno they found.
Well I know I am immature, so I know I found them funny. Otherwise the scenes were ok. Didn't think they were that fanservicey though. I understand where you are coming from. And the mature thing comes from its dealing of politics. At least in my eyes.
Yeah the political dealings of the game is where the maturity lies in my opinion, but I also think the games portrayal of Triss and Geralt's relationship is fairly mature too.

Some guy wrote a series of academic style essays explaining the politics in The Witcher 2 and it is extremely in depth and everything the big players do have some great reasoning and motives behind it.
 

VoidWanderer

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endtherapture said:
I've noticed there's a lot of...not hate, but dislike for The Witcher series on these forums beyond some of the time. It's been called immature, grimdark, sexist and just bad by a number of people on these forums, and I'm wondering why. Because I don't get it (apart from maybe the juvenile sex cards in the first game which were tacky)

I've recently started playing my fourth or fifth playthrough of The Witcher 2 game recently after completing Dragon Age Inquisition and it really is a breath of fresh air to me.

I love that the writing is mature and treats you as an adult - it throws you into confusing politics and you're left to work out different players motivations without them being explained to you by an NPC. I love how it deals with relationships and friendships - Bioware's romances are like machines you put in niceness to to get sex out of, but Geralt's and Triss' relationship is far more nuanced and full of secrets. I also maintain that Iorveth and Roche are just as well written as any Bioware companion.

I love that the world is interesting to explore and feels lived in. The towns are busy and full of clutter and dirt. NPCs dont have massive glowing quest markers on their heads. It's honestly just as well designed as Skyrim and feels like a real world in my opinion.

I love the choice and consequence system and how it's not tacked onto an "approval" system or a moral meter. Choices are choices, you have to take track of them by themselves and a choice has a direct consequence, long or short term. It's really good.

I understand that a lot of people have reservations with the series but coming from a Bioware game where everything is pointed out to you, playing The Witcher really is a breath of fresh air in the way it treats you as an adult and not a teenager who needs to be pointed and nudged in the right direction, with everything explained to them.

So, what do you like and dislike about the series?
The Witcher has some great lore behind, but I lost faith in the games where the character trained to hunt creatures doesn't know where the freaking SKULL was. Yes, he had amnesia, but still... While the game was complex and interesting, it was so drawn out. Honestly, just watch Yahtzee's review of the first Witcher game, and that pretty much sums it up for me.

Got to the first city, wandered around, and couldn't figure out where to go or what I was doing and stopped playing. Didn't touch the sequel because I didn't finish the first.
 

timeformime

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I gotta say, I love the Witcher, and yes, it's grimdark and broody, but I think it justifies it fine. Temeria is a crappy, brutal world, and The Witcher wants you to know it. It's like the video game equivalent of good film noir, dark and broody and cracking wise, but still with plenty of personality.

I get that it's a niche game, though, and not all that hospitable to newcomers. If you haven't followed the series since the first, you might not be up to speed or have much affection for what it does.

Kind of how I feel about every Final Fantasy game I've tried to play. :p
 

Xaio30

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I like the solid feeling I get from the game. It seems polished and full of features.
The biggest downside is Geralt. I could not care less about him, and I wish I could create my own character to play as.