What do you think of US soldiers?
- Thread starter mrhappyface
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Unquestioning obedience makes my skin crawl. But they do good things, I guess. Depends on who they're obeying without question.
Actually the research shows that both those points are correct:Earthmonger said:
They're personally moral, but their actions are not necessarily moral. This is covered in psychology by a number of researchers and revolves around the nature/nurture debate: is it our personality that makes us act the way we do or the situation.
Darley et al (1973) performed the following experiment:
They took a sample of theology students from Princeton and controlled for religiosity and personal dispositional factors (tried to make sure that everyone was very similar before the experiment) and then split them into two blind experimental condition groups (neither group knows anything about the other or the experiment itself (this is often achieved, as in this case, by masking the true hypothesis by misinforming the sample as to the purpose of the experiment)): one which would prepare a lecture on the parable of the Good Samaritan and the other would prepare a lecture on careers for theologians.
When a set period of time was up, a third of each group were told that they were very late for their seminar and would have to rush, a third that they could just about make it and the final third were told that they were in no hurry (all of them went through the experiment individually). Unbeknownst to the sample, on the way to their seminar hall they'd bump across a confederate of the experimenters feigning severe respiratory problems. Surprisingly, despite the fact that the sample had tested as 'equally moral' and had been controlled for dispositional factors before hand, only 29% of the careers speech condition offered to help the man whereas 53% of the Good Samaritan speech condition offered to help. Within the sample 10% of those who were in a hurry, 45% of those who were 'on time' and 63% of those who were early for their seminar stopped to help the confederate.
This shows, and many, many other studies have backed this up since, that personality isn't the crucial factor in our decisions, rather the situation dictates the man.
I have a lot of respect for the armed forces, but not for the powers that be, that send them into the meat grinder. (would you like to know more?) sorry..=p
However, I have a healthy fear of them aswell, this is mainly for the Brits out there, but have you met an average squaddy? They are fucking insane. A good laugh, but you worry he will turn on you as soon as you sip your pint.
I have met one SAS guy, through these squaddies, and some of the stories he told. Jesus. Dark on a level that makes Call of Duty and any FPS suddenly seem so petty and insulting.
However, I have a healthy fear of them aswell, this is mainly for the Brits out there, but have you met an average squaddy? They are fucking insane. A good laugh, but you worry he will turn on you as soon as you sip your pint.
I have met one SAS guy, through these squaddies, and some of the stories he told. Jesus. Dark on a level that makes Call of Duty and any FPS suddenly seem so petty and insulting.
For soldiers I have nothing but the utmost respect, anybody should realise that a soldier swore to protect his/her country and must follow orders, that is their duty. So it is truely awful to blame a soldier for something that is a politicians fault. What I mean to say is that in Europe we have a lot of problems with the way the US military has been acting over the past few years but I wouldnt think ill of the soldiers for a second.mrhappyface said:
Oh and those people who keep making the news for picketing soldiers funerals, I would beat 47 shades of shit out of them for that.
First of all I'm not a soldier so I have no idea what really goes on and I will never truly understand or appreciate the sacrifices that soldiers make and the experiences they go through.similar.squirrel said:
(edit - I respect them)
All I have to say is speculative and idealised.
Unquestioning obedience is bad for the Americans but also good (as an idea) if you agree with Master Suns Art of War. Sun's thinking was that soldiers should obey without question because the mind set of the general was supposed to be geared for absolute victory. Whatever order he gave he gave it because in his planning that would lead to victory. Knowing this his soldiers would never questioned him.
The problem with American soliders is that the obey without question not because their commander is good (not saying all their commanders are bad) but because their trained not to think about the orders. A soldier who thinks is not a threat because in a perfect world the General is supposed to be the greatest thinker of all so any thoughts from the soldier would be overwhelmed by the sheer experience and reasoning of the General (a master in the art of war whose past decisions led to victory).
If they did think they'd probably come to the conclusion that America's military thinking is flawed (to various depths). Essentially that could and probably would lead to a challange against the established leadership.
Thats all I'm going to say. No country has ever handled war right imo.
It's funny, isn't it?
It used to be self-righteous, honourable and pompous generals leading hordes of lower-class, thickie looters and rapists (even as late as the 1800s)
Now it's slimy, clandestine politicians leading rabbles of young, patriotic soldiers who get a bad rap
It used to be self-righteous, honourable and pompous generals leading hordes of lower-class, thickie looters and rapists (even as late as the 1800s)
Now it's slimy, clandestine politicians leading rabbles of young, patriotic soldiers who get a bad rap
I guess having the masses being the honourable and decent ones at the expense of a few leaders is progress for the human race.GrinningManiac said:
Obvious COD fanboy is ObviousUltratwinkie said:
seriously, that is almost as pathetic as supporters of sports teams who say "we had a brilliant game" afterwards, even though all they did was watch.
Also, you know NOTHING about anything to do with this subject, as is apparant by your childish "bigging up" of American military hardasses, the "my dad can beat up your dad" attitude towards the SAS, and the "Russians are cool ZOMG" attitude towards Spetnaz
Nothing much - they do their job. Although I would like to point out that the SAS missions in MW were far better than the Marine ones.
The only thing I've ever heard from a US soldier was a bundle of racism towards Muslims though (it was on the internet so there you go). Obviously I highly doubt that that attitude is representative of the majority though.
The only thing I've ever heard from a US soldier was a bundle of racism towards Muslims though (it was on the internet so there you go). Obviously I highly doubt that that attitude is representative of the majority though.
Nobody asked you to police the world, Vietnam is a bad example btw you could not have won short of commiting genocide and losing alot more of your own. You were fighting an entrenched enemy on ther turf against guerilla tactics. They would never have given up or surrendered and they had nowhere to go, they would have fought to the last man. America was only their becasue Vietnam didnt want to be a French colony anymore and Communism scared the US. Try solving your own problems befor eyou start telling everybody else how to do their thing. Your culture works for you, forcing it on other countries is what gets you the international animosity.gim73 said:
Yeah, but I was the second man on the balcony.GrinningManiac said:
OT: Yeah, US soldiers are fine- I have the same opinion of UK troops.
There have been protests around here by Muslims at the funerals of UK soldiers, and they get no sympathy from me- protest against the politicians who sent them in.
