What do you think when you hear the word "transexual?"
- Thread starter Ellen of Kitten
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no, but this is life and not some idealistic cartoon in which you're never going to come across someone transexual, or have a friend who comes out as trans.
it could at least mean rainbows and free cake (well, support and friendship, maybe cake as well) for someone.
it could at least mean rainbows and free cake (well, support and friendship, maybe cake as well) for someone.
Wow, somebody who is capable of producing evidence, rather than just hyper-defensive hissy-fits, in defence of their viewpoint. Take note: this guy is Doing It Right (tm).peruvianskys said:
Thanks for the information. It was informative, and in the case of the youtube video, a little disturbing for my tastes.
I'm a little disappointed that a majority of posters in this thread have blatently ignored the OP's request for an open forum where both positive and negative sentiment can be expressed. If there was an implicit "...but opinions deemed incorrect will be punished" then I'm afraid I didn't pick up on it. And if the topic title had read "Transgender Flattery Thread, Ass-Kissers Only Please" then chances are I would have respectfully declined to post in it, thus sparing you all my monstrous bigotry.
I'm glad you made the effort to read that, but making an effort to correct misconceptions is not punishment. Hell, even calling bigotry what it is is not punishment.Batou667 said:
If someone had started a thread entitled 'What do you think of when you think of a black man/gay person?', it wouldn't give people the right to post whatever stereotypes, fallacies or misunderstandings they felt like without being challenged on them.
A person whose sex does not match their gender... surrounded by hateful and ignorant people, sadly.
This came to mind:
I saw it on Reddit recently, but just found it again on some Tumblr page. I think it's probably more complicated than this diagram implies, but (and I can only say this from an inexperienced point of view, as I'm not transsexual, and don't know anybody that is), I think it goes some way to gracefully forging some kind of tangible understanding for the uninitiated.
I saw it on Reddit recently, but just found it again on some Tumblr page. I think it's probably more complicated than this diagram implies, but (and I can only say this from an inexperienced point of view, as I'm not transsexual, and don't know anybody that is), I think it goes some way to gracefully forging some kind of tangible understanding for the uninitiated.
I don't really have a "first thing" that comes to mind concerning anything. What generally comes about when someone bring up transsexuals, though, is bit of confusion followed quickly by dismissal.
As a concept, I don't really understand the mentality behind it. And don't bother trying to explain it, I've tried to put it into context before, only to be told I was wrong and it was something else entirely. I just don't get it. I can live with that.
On the individual level, I take people as they come.
-If the first thing I learn about a person, from their own mouth, is that they're transsexual, I'll assume that's all they consider themselves to be (with all the victim-baggage that tends to bring along), and probably not want to have much to do with them.
-If I'm told (from their own mouth, again) that a person I've gotten to know pretty well is transgendered, I may see that as them taking me into their confidence and consider us closer for it. It would depend on the context of the revelation, though.
-If I'm told that someone I'm being introduced to is transsexual, I tend to think less of the person doing the introduction, as that seems to be all they think of the person they're introducing me to. Then I'll wait and see what other impressions I get.
As a concept, I don't really understand the mentality behind it. And don't bother trying to explain it, I've tried to put it into context before, only to be told I was wrong and it was something else entirely. I just don't get it. I can live with that.
On the individual level, I take people as they come.
-If the first thing I learn about a person, from their own mouth, is that they're transsexual, I'll assume that's all they consider themselves to be (with all the victim-baggage that tends to bring along), and probably not want to have much to do with them.
-If I'm told (from their own mouth, again) that a person I've gotten to know pretty well is transgendered, I may see that as them taking me into their confidence and consider us closer for it. It would depend on the context of the revelation, though.
-If I'm told that someone I'm being introduced to is transsexual, I tend to think less of the person doing the introduction, as that seems to be all they think of the person they're introducing me to. Then I'll wait and see what other impressions I get.
The other comment where I called you a big dumb ****** must have been deleted!Batou667 said:
Anyway yeah, I don't know. I grew up in and still live in a pretty small town and I won't lie; meeting transgender people is still a little new to me. But much like black people or people with hideous facial deformities, the only negative response is the first little "Hey that's an out of the ordinary person for North Idaho." After that I'll just deal with them normally I guess.
seeing as how this person didn't say that they try to stop transsexuals from getting surgery, and how they didn't say that they wished them harm or stated that they discriminate against them, I'd say they are tolerant. Being tolerant means that you put up with people/opinions/subjects that you don't care for/agree with/have interest in. Its not tolerance if you agree with the person, it's tolerance if you put up with the person who you disagree with. So, yes they are tolerant.Mischa87 said:
You just stated that "basic requirements for survival will always come before mental problems" which is why I state the its a first world problem. I think your making the assumption that because I refer to transsexual issues as a first world problem, I'm trying to convey that those issues are not important, which is not the case. Though I don't have those issues, I realize that they are very real and very serious. My only disagreement with you is that you seem to feel that it is wrong to label these issues as a first world problemultrachicken said:Way to completely disregard everything I said, but I'll play along.Volf99 said:Like Batou66 typed, its first world problems. Last I checked Palestinians were not concerned about the trans community, nor were the Tibetans who were being oppressed by the CCP. Things like food, water and self sovereignty are what come to mind first, not cutting of one's d**k or mutilating one's vagina.ultrachicken said:That's generally because third world countries are incredibly oppressive towards transsexuals, even more so than first world countries. Native Americans, being part of the United States for the most part, don't have "Trans Communities" tailored specifically for their ethnicity. And, even if they did, considering how small a minority they are, said group would be incredibly tiny.Batou667 said:Maybe, but I can't remember the last time I heard about Ethiopians campaigning for trans awareness, or an Eskimo in drag, or the Native American Trans community.Ellen of Kitten said:Transexuality is human wide, not limited to class, wealth, geographical location, etc. Hardly a first world problem. Off the bandwagon you go.
Outside of the Western/white world the only other trans issues I've heard of are the trans community in India and Pakistan - which seems to be almost a spiritual thing - and of course Thai ladyboys, which is an overtly sexual subculture.
Basic requirements for survival will always come before mental problems, but that doesn't mean the mental problems don't exist, and they take their toll everywhere. Someone who doesn't have food, water, or electricity is clearly going to seek that stuff out before dealing with their internal torments, but that fact doesn't somehow invalidate the person's mental issues.
No. What he /actually/ did was suggest they were mentally ill. 'Insane'. By inferrence he believes they should /not/ be permitted surgery and should instead be treated for the aforementioned mental illness to cure them of their delusions regarding their gender. He's free to correct me, but I really don't see how that can be read any other way.Volf99 said:
Now, admittedly the word 'tolerance' can be somewhat subjective in this modern world of ours... but that's not the word I'd use for that particular stance.
I think of someone who wants to or has changed their own sex. That's literally all I think about.
It's an interesting phenomenon. Something has clearly gone wrong during development - the brain thinks it should be of a different gender than the body actually is. This results in psychological conflict.
There are two solutions: We can change the brain to fit the body or change the body to fit the brain.
Changing the brain to fit the body has been attempt and it has proved disastrous. Patients will often fake a sense of resolution, but they often go on to commit suicide or become horribly depressed. We simply don't have the technology to change the brain to accept the body. It would require seriously advanced technology in order to alter the brain to truly accept its current gender, and that's technology we don't have. Trust me - I've read about this in quite a few psychology books. Trying to change their mind simply doesn't work. We can't do it. It fails and it fails horribly.
Since there's no point in pursing a treatment that doesn't work, the only option available is changing the body to fit the mind (a much easier task). Of course, we can't perfectly change the body to fit the mind, but we can do it well enough to provide psychological comfort.
It is a disorder. Even transsexual people say that they are "born into the wrong body" - what else is that BUT a disorder? What else do you call such a conflict? If the brain and the body can't agree on what gender they are, isn't that a serious problem? A biological problem? Neurological problem? I would say it is. But I believe in treating people for their disorder, not blaming them for it. I don't find Transsexuals disgusting - I view them as people who have an internal conflict which can be solved or alleviated in part through medical science. Everyone has medical problems at some point in their life - there's nothing to be ashamed about being transsexual or wanting to change your sex/gender. It's simply a medical problem, like Chicken pox or ADHD or Arthritis - a problem to be solved. And solve it we can.
Sex Change operations provide relief and are an effective treatment (in most cases) for this disorder. They work, and work well.
It's an interesting phenomenon. Something has clearly gone wrong during development - the brain thinks it should be of a different gender than the body actually is. This results in psychological conflict.
There are two solutions: We can change the brain to fit the body or change the body to fit the brain.
Changing the brain to fit the body has been attempt and it has proved disastrous. Patients will often fake a sense of resolution, but they often go on to commit suicide or become horribly depressed. We simply don't have the technology to change the brain to accept the body. It would require seriously advanced technology in order to alter the brain to truly accept its current gender, and that's technology we don't have. Trust me - I've read about this in quite a few psychology books. Trying to change their mind simply doesn't work. We can't do it. It fails and it fails horribly.
Since there's no point in pursing a treatment that doesn't work, the only option available is changing the body to fit the mind (a much easier task). Of course, we can't perfectly change the body to fit the mind, but we can do it well enough to provide psychological comfort.
It is a disorder. Even transsexual people say that they are "born into the wrong body" - what else is that BUT a disorder? What else do you call such a conflict? If the brain and the body can't agree on what gender they are, isn't that a serious problem? A biological problem? Neurological problem? I would say it is. But I believe in treating people for their disorder, not blaming them for it. I don't find Transsexuals disgusting - I view them as people who have an internal conflict which can be solved or alleviated in part through medical science. Everyone has medical problems at some point in their life - there's nothing to be ashamed about being transsexual or wanting to change your sex/gender. It's simply a medical problem, like Chicken pox or ADHD or Arthritis - a problem to be solved. And solve it we can.
Sex Change operations provide relief and are an effective treatment (in most cases) for this disorder. They work, and work well.
Well I just think of a human being. Transsexuals are technically only present because: 1) They feel more comfortable in a certain type of body, and 2) It is easier to fit within a gender role if you appear like that gender. Don't get me wrong, transvestites are perfectly fine in my book, but the idea would be almost unnecessary if society was a bit more accepting.
I cant help but be a little weirded out but it even in a way that I dont with gay people.
I think the problem is I can "get" being gay. It computes. I can rationalise it. I can even rationalise cross dressing bizzarly enough, but for some reason I just can put myself in any abstract situation where I could possibly want to do it, therefore its just....Weird.
Bizzarly, open displays by gay men make me feel more uncomfortable than open displays of gay women (none, really), though I have a theory on this based on the fact its far more natural to see women openly displaying affections for each other therefore its not a big leap for they to be greater feelings, while men are traditionally emotionally closed to the outside world especially to each other therefore seeing such a display is more unsettling because it almost never happens.
See, rational.
I think the problem is I can "get" being gay. It computes. I can rationalise it. I can even rationalise cross dressing bizzarly enough, but for some reason I just can put myself in any abstract situation where I could possibly want to do it, therefore its just....Weird.
Bizzarly, open displays by gay men make me feel more uncomfortable than open displays of gay women (none, really), though I have a theory on this based on the fact its far more natural to see women openly displaying affections for each other therefore its not a big leap for they to be greater feelings, while men are traditionally emotionally closed to the outside world especially to each other therefore seeing such a display is more unsettling because it almost never happens.
See, rational.
