What do you think when you hear the word "transexual?"

[Luquent]

Pretty much Rocky Horror.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Other than Tim Curry from Rocky Horror, that word also remind me of the "Okama" like Emporio Ivankov from the anime One Piece.

 

[Damien Granz]

Transsexualism is human wide, not limited to class, wealth, geographical location, etc. Hardly a first world problem. Off the bandwagon you go.

Maybe, but I can't remember the last time I heard about Ethiopians campaigning for trans awareness, or an Eskimo in drag, or the Native American Trans community.

Outside of the Western/white world the only other trans issues I've heard of are the trans community in India and Pakistan - which seems to be almost a spiritual thing - and of course Thai ladyboys, which is an overtly sexual subculture.

That's generally because third world countries are incredibly oppressive towards transsexuals, even more so than first world countries. Native Americans, being part of the United States for the most part, don't have "Trans Communities" tailored specifically for their ethnicity. And, even if they did, considering how small a minority they are, said group would be incredibly tiny.

Like Batou66 typed, its first world problems. Last I checked Palestinians were not concerned about the trans community, nor were the Tibetans who were being oppressed by the CCP. Things like food, water and self sovereignty are what come to mind first, not cutting of one's d**k or mutilating one's vagina.

And hey, while we're at it, the Tibetans being opppressed by the CCP is a first world problem too, because they aren't starving either?

You realize that expressing your own gender identity how you wish is part of self sovereignty right?

It's like some sort of retarded race to the bottom, like saying that you broke your arm and are in severe pain for the rest of your life isn't a problem because hey, you have clean water.

I draw the line at transsexual.
I believe that a person who thinks he/she is transsexual has a problem and needs help.
I find myself open, tolerant and transparent. But mutilating your body to look like that of the other gender is insane.

I also find the doctors, psychologists and surgeons, who enable this are very irresponsible.
People should accept who they are. You can be straight, bi or gay, but if you are born as a man, then have your body remodeled to look like a woman and then have sex with men? You're just a gay man with a mutilated body.

I also find it insulting to Gay's, lesbians and bisexuals to use the term LGBT because that puts transsexuals in the same category as LG&B people.

Being bisexual myself, I have no problem putting T in that category. Is transsexualism a sexual orientation? No. But it goes through roughly the same mistreatment and misunderstanding and has the same need for a equal rights movement than the rest of the group. It's grouped there not as a scientific consensus, but as because the two movements have roughly the same goals and problems.

A lot of the time, 'and straight allies' are placed with the group, too, and that in no way offends me either.

But telling them to 'accept who they are' means they should accept that their gender identity isn't the same as their biological or chromosomal sex. And what is more important of who you are, your personality or your DNA?

 

[Slippers]

Well, you asked for an honest opinion.

If we are talking about cross-dressing - "Fetish."
If we are talking about operations, hormonal treatments and the like - "First world problem."

That's all I see. I am tolerant towards the subject, but I am by no means accepting of it.

 

[BathorysGraveland]

Well, admittedly the first thing that pops into my head when I hear or see the word 'transsexual' is - A girl with a penis.

I know it isn't exactly the nicest way of summing someone up, and I really mean no offence to transsexuals, but it is the first thing that comes into my head and that is that really. I've seen quite a bit of pornography involving transsexual women, so that could have something to do with it.

 

[cynicalsaint1]

If I'm the one being asked, the bare essence of femininity is the ability to give birth. Pretty much everything that differs about women from men both biologically and socially stems from this fact. How does one feel feminine without the core of what makes one female?

Out of curiosity, if you define femininity as fertility,what happens to women who are unable to become pregnant? Women who have had hysterectomies? Menopausal women? Women who would die if they gave birth?

Are they unable to feel feminine, because they don't have the "core of what makes one female," either?

That's not exactly the same thing though.

In the case of menopausal women/women who've had hysterectomies: Motherhood hardly ends the moment after a person finishes the birthing process, or do you mean to argue that having carried a child inside your body for 9 months, and gone through the process of birthing it into the world doesn't affect your relationship with that child in a way it simply cannot for man? So I really wouldn't consider a woman's who has had children but can no longer do so for whatever reason particularly relevant to the argument.

As for women born or rendered barren before they can give birth - the biology around being born a woman revolves around being born into a form that is meant to give birth. The biological factors that makes her female still revolve around the fact her body is meant to be able to give birth. Which again is totally different being born male, whose biology is designed around the fact that he doesn't in fact have to worry about a possible 9 month gestation period whenever he has sex.

In these cases having been born a woman biologically still informs the rest of who they are. How their bodies are formed, their primary and secondary sexual characteristics, how they balance hormones, the way they are socialized, and so forth. For a transgendered person this isn't true.

 

[omega 616]

I think a person who has or wants to change gender .... so basically exactly what it says on the tin ....

It is like what do you think when you hear the word fridge? Something cold you put food it to keep it fresh. It's not like an ink blot test and instead of saying "Something cold you put food it to keep it fresh" I say something like "a person who is emotionally dead and can only feel after a bottle of whiskey"

You say a word and I think of it's meaning, isn't that how brains work? People who think differently could be having hilarious, nonsensical conversations!

 

[Slippers]

Transsexualism is human wide, not limited to class, wealth, geographical location, etc. Hardly a first world problem. Off the bandwagon you go.

Maybe, but I can't remember the last time I heard about Ethiopians campaigning for trans awareness, or an Eskimo in drag, or the Native American Trans community.

Outside of the Western/white world the only other trans issues I've heard of are the trans community in India and Pakistan - which seems to be almost a spiritual thing - and of course Thai ladyboys, which is an overtly sexual subculture.

That's generally because third world countries are incredibly oppressive towards transsexuals, even more so than first world countries. Native Americans, being part of the United States for the most part, don't have "Trans Communities" tailored specifically for their ethnicity. And, even if they did, considering how small a minority they are, said group would be incredibly tiny.

Like Batou66 typed, its first world problems. Last I checked Palestinians were not concerned about the trans community, nor were the Tibetans who were being oppressed by the CCP. Things like food, water and self sovereignty are what come to mind first, not cutting of one's d**k or mutilating one's vagina.

And hey, while we're at it, the Tibetans being opppressed by the CCP is a first world problem too, because they aren't starving either?

You realize that expressing your own gender identity how you wish is part of self sovereignty right?

It's like some sort of retarded race to the bottom, like saying that you broke your arm and are in severe pain for the rest of your life isn't a problem because hey, you have clean water.

I draw the line at transsexual.
I believe that a person who thinks he/she is transsexual has a problem and needs help.
I find myself open, tolerant and transparent. But mutilating your body to look like that of the other gender is insane.

I also find the doctors, psychologists and surgeons, who enable this are very irresponsible.
People should accept who they are. You can be straight, bi or gay, but if you are born as a man, then have your body remodeled to look like a woman and then have sex with men? You're just a gay man with a mutilated body.

I also find it insulting to Gay's, lesbians and bisexuals to use the term LGBT because that puts transsexuals in the same category as LG&B people.

Being bisexual myself, I have no problem putting T in that category. Is transsexualism a sexual orientation? No. But it goes through roughly the same mistreatment and misunderstanding and has the same need for a equal rights movement than the rest of the group. It's grouped there not as a scientific consensus, but as because the two movements have roughly the same goals and problems.

A lot of the time, 'and straight allies' are placed with the group, too, and that in no way offends me either.

But telling them to 'accept who they are' means they should accept that their gender identity isn't the same as their biological or chromosomal sex. And what is more important of who you are, your personality or your DNA?

"Life's a *****, ain't it?"

 

[TheRundownRabbit]

I don't know about you guys, but when I hear the word transsexual...I think of Hideyoshi

I absolutely must know what that is of right the hell now, because *drool*

Okay, that was uncivilized. What I meant to say was:"Dear fellow Escapist, would you be so kind as to explain what series that screenshot is from?"

OT: It's come up in conversation several times. Through trial, error and getting shouted at a lot, I've essentially developed a surprisingly complex first reaction to any mention of trans[anything]. I'll try to keep it brief:

I'm for people doing whatever the hell makes them happy so long as it doesn't infringe on the freedoms and rights of others. If that means making the world a more varied and interesting place, I approve all the more. As a bisexual, I really don't give a toss what's between your legs and there's always strapons/anal, so whatever to that whole business. However, every time I say anything on this or similar topics, the terms I was taught as being appropriate/correct last time are apparently deeply offensive now, so I'm just going to shut up and take another drink from my vodka on the rocks. It's okay, most of my friends know I'm the quiet type anyway and if anybody asks my opinion, I'll just give a thumbs up.

It is from a pleasant show called Baka and Test my friend

 

[Damien Granz]

"Life's a *****, ain't it?"

I'm not sure your point. Are you saying that, because "life is a *****" they should sit there and do jack shit, or be vilified for doing something about it?

I mean, life's a ***** and I lost my hand or something means there's absolutely nothing to do about it, right? No therapy to learn to use my other hand as dominate, or get a prosthetic limb, or retrain to a new career? Nope. Just sit there and sulk?

Because if so that sounds less like life is a ***** and more that you're expecting them to roll over and be a ***** for life.

And I'm not sure that's entirely constructive.

 

[FrostyChick]

I see it as being a good thing for humanity. A potentially positive step forward in terms of technological and social advancement.
However, as with any step forward in body modification. We still have to settle down the "natural is best" crowd, and get them to understand that they have no right to dictate what a person does with their own body.
There is nothing special about what you were born with. Being happy with it does not make you a better person. It's being a better person that makes you that.
So the moral of the story is, live and let live.

Of course there is one other thing:
To those who say accept who you are. What's more important when judging a person, personality, or an invisible series of chromosome base pairs?

 

[KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life]

It's all of those Elder Trolls, you see.

 

[Slippers]

"Life's a *****, ain't it?"

I'm not sure your point. Are you saying that, because "life is a *****" they should sit there and do jack shit, or be vilified for doing something about it?

I mean, life's a ***** and I lost my hand or something means there's absolutely nothing to do about it, right? No therapy to learn to use my other hand as dominate, or get a prosthetic limb, or retrain to a new career? Nope. Just sit there and sulk?

Because if so that sounds less like life is a ***** and more that you're expecting them to roll over and be a ***** for life.

And I'm not sure that's entirely constructive.

Everyone has been dealt certain cards when they were born. The best bet is to learn how to make use of what you got, not to expect the universe to roll over because the hand they got was a bit on the shitty side.

 

[Robert Ewing]

I think of a rather thin asian woman with B-cup breasts, that look enhanced, yet still quite small- in black lingerie with a penis.

That's my initial thought anyway. Don't judge me.

 

[MaxwellEdison]

Women with dicks, and that guy who had a child.

Pretty straight forward in my mind, I suppose.

 

[Gralian]

I'll be honest. If you asked me a couple of years ago, i'd reply that transexuals are nothing more than glorified drag queens that decide to 'live' their opposite sex persona. I'd get an image of a very butch looking "woman" that has no hips, a wig, and a chiseled male jaw with a deep and creepy voice. Lisp is optional. On the opposite end of the spectrum, i'd also imagine one of those stereotypical "Thai / Phillipeno ladyboys" that are often the butt of many a joke about this sort of thing. For female to males, just a very butch woman in men's clothing, such as sports themed t-shirt, baseball cap, jeans etc with short buzzcut hair, probably overweight.

Now, that used to be my perception, aided in no small part by the media portrayal of transsexuals and how little representation they actually get. It's like how other people would write me off as a "neckbearded basement dwelling virgin troll" because i play video games, and we all know how much the mainstream just loves us nerd types.

I've since learned more about it, though, from documentaries from TV to internet articles and even from transsexual escapists. I remember one thread on here from very long ago called "Ask a transsexual something" which got a lot of hits, and despite the OP and other transsexuals getting more than a bit annoyed at the supposed ignorance of the community, proved to be very enlightening. For example, i didn't know that brain scans of people who identify as transsexual are different to cis people, indicating that there may be more biology behind it than simply "it's all mental". I also disregard people claiming it's a "first world problem", as just because we hear about it often in first world countries does not mean it doesn't happen in other nations too. After all, would you think Somalia, Africa or some of the more middle Eastern coutnries would have people who would identify as gay? I saw a documentary about people in such countries who were persecuted for being gay, and would end up named and shamed in the local paper, have stones thrown at them, or even killed. Chances are there are people in such countries who identify as the opposite sex but don't have a voice to express themselves.

Personally, it makes me question my own focus on gender, or lack thereof. I'm male, i'm not entirely uncomfortable being male, but i don't feel any sort of need to assert myself that i am male. I don't like sport, i'm not always entirely comfortable in the company of other men, i don't necessarily identify with things that are typically 'masculine', but i'm not feminine either. So what does that make me? Maybe i'm just so apathetic about my gender because being born cis means you don't have to face any adversity and just take it for granted. Who knows.

I've wondered if i'd be able to date someone who is transsexual. Speaking honestly, i think it would be a little weird, because in my mind i'd know that the bits i'm interested in would be fake. I'd know that the vagina is just a mutilated penis cut and made inside out and that just bothers me. It would also depend on how much of a success they were - i'd have to look at them and instantly think that they were female for me to overlook the fact that they are TS. I think though that if i really loved the person, i may be able to see past them being TS. I've never actually met one so i can't say how much it would bother me in person. Part of me would like to meet one for the sole purpose of seeing one up close and asking them about it and see how they'd compare to 'the real deal', despite how objectified that may sound.

 

[LeeArac]

Everyone has been dealt certain cards when they were born. The best bet is to learn how to make use of what you got, not to expect the universe to roll over because the hand they got was a bit on the shitty side.

That in no way addresses Damien's point or the parallel with losing a limb... or being born blind or with any other of the myriad potential birth issues the chaos of genetic alchemy can throw up.

It's not 'expecting the universe to roll over'. It's trying to fix something that's broken to the best of your ability and the ability of modern medicine despite the fact that it will inevitably lead to hardship, bigotry and ostracization by a society that doesn't like things that are different. People - in short - like you. It's not entitlement, that is - in fact - 'making the best of what you got'.

I wouldn't do it myself if I felt unhappy with the body I was born with... because I don't feel current procedures are up to the task... and because I'd be scared both of the surgery itself and of society's reaction (given the reaction of supposedly enlightened people in this thread, that seems justified)... but that just shows how very important a transperson must consider the issue that they're willing to overlook such huge drawbacks. And how Goddamn brave they are in my eyes.

 

[Slippers]

That in no way addresses Damien's point or the parallel with losing a limb... or being born blind or with any other of the myriad potential birth issues the chaos of genetic alchemy can throw up.

It's not 'expecting the universe to roll over'. It's trying to fix something that's broken to the best of your ability and the ability of modern medicine despite the fact that it will inevitably lead to hardship, bigotry and ostracization by a society that doesn't like things that are different. People - in short - like you. It's not entitlement, that is - in fact - 'making the best of what you got'.

I wouldn't do it myself if I felt unhappy with the body I was born with... because I don't feel current procedures are up to the task... and because I'd be scared both of the surgery itself and of society's reaction (given the reaction of supposedly enlightened people in this thread, that seems justified)... but that just shows how very important a transperson must consider the issue that they're willing to overlook such huge drawbacks. And how Goddamn brave they are in my eyes.

That is in no way making the best of it, that's just making extra problems for yourself in the long-term precisely because of the reasons you mentioned.

I don't view them as martyrs, brave or any of that sort. I view them as the sort that tend to shoot themselves in the foot.

 

[Damien Granz]

That in no way addresses Damien's point or the parallel with losing a limb... or being born blind or with any other of the myriad potential birth issues the chaos of genetic alchemy can throw up.

It's not 'expecting the universe to roll over'. It's trying to fix something that's broken to the best of your ability and the ability of modern medicine despite the fact that it will inevitably lead to hardship, bigotry and ostracization by a society that doesn't like things that are different. People - in short - like you. It's not entitlement, that is - in fact - 'making the best of what you got'.

I wouldn't do it myself if I felt unhappy with the body I was born with... because I don't feel current procedures are up to the task... and because I'd be scared both of the surgery itself and of society's reaction (given the reaction of supposedly enlightened people in this thread, that seems justified)... but that just shows how very important a transperson must consider the issue that they're willing to overlook such huge drawbacks. And how Goddamn brave they are in my eyes.

That is in no way making the best of it, that's just making extra problems for yourself in the long-term precisely because of the reasons you mentioned.

I don't view them as martyrs, brave or any of that sort. I view them as the sort that tend to shoot themselves in the foot.

No, they're making extra problems to deal with an even larger problem.

Actually they ain't even doing that. You're forcing them to deal with extra problems because you don't like the fact they're dealing with their own problem. Honestly if the question was just "Me changing my identity and maybe getting a cosmetic surgery", then the problem is at best "How do I pay for this surgery.". All the other problems though of are your own design.

It would be like if people went around to every near deaf guy and punched the back of their head every time they tried to get a hearing aid. That doesn't make being punched in the head a 'deafness' problem.

They are trying to make the best of it, so how about stop being an asshole to them and let them, and stop belittling them, or stop fostering an environment where making the best of it means losing their livelihood or life?

 

[LeeArac]

That is in no way making the best of it, that's just making extra problems for yourself in the long-term precisely because of the reasons you mentioned.

I don't view them as martyrs, brave or any of that sort. I view them as the sort that tend to shoot themselves in the foot.

And this is precisely the same viewpoint that suggests an uncloseted homosexual has only themselves to blame if they get beaten up/denied a job etc... because after all, they can hide it, right? They're only making extra problems for themselves.

It genuinely shocks me that we can have people firmly on board with the homosexual rights movement then turn around and balk at transgenderism. It is completely a personal decision as to whether they feel their subjective difficulty adapting to what they regard as an alien gender is worth the potential difficulties of a bigoted society and imperfect surgery. It meaningfully affects no one else and yet we still have otherwise-sensible people trying to rationalize their own discomfort.

There's a good reason transgenderism gets lumped into the lesbian/bisexual/gay basket. They face precisely the same squick-factor masquerading as meaningful opposition.