Good. I think so, too. Especially if you take a look at some transsexuals, which are, well, HOT!Zombie_Fish said:
I mean, come on! And thanks for clarifying the whole transgender/transsexual thing. I hate googling stuff, myself ;D
What do you think when you hear the word "transexual?"
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I mean, come on! And thanks for clarifying the whole transgender/transsexual thing. I hate googling stuff, myself ;D
Honestly I'm not sure what to think, other than it weirds me out a bit.
My gender identity is tied so tightly to my physical sex that I can't imagine the two not being in-line with one another. I have absolutely no frame of reference to think about it from.
With homosexuality I at least understand sexual attraction well enough to be able to think about it from other perspectives - while I'm not personally sexually attracted to other men, I understand how men are sexually attractive, and I most definitely understand being sexually attracted women. So I have a frame of reference that I can understand it through.
With the whole transgender/transexual thing I don't. I was born with a sex and that is my gender, the two are equivalent to me, and pretty much everyone I've never known is the same way. Its so tightly wound into my own identity and how I've been socialized there's no other way for me to really think about it.
Its hard for me to not wonder about whats really going on, and while I'm open to the idea that its not something a person can do anything about - I'm not 100% convinced. Nor am I convinced that changing one's physical sex is the best solution to that problem - if just because pretty much every testimonial I've heard from a transsexual makes it sound like they have just as a hard of a time being socially accepted as before they started trying to assume their new gender role.
Again I'm not trying to say that there's nothing going on with transsexuals, just that I'm unsure of how to take them, or what I should think. I think talking to one about it would be interesting.
My gender identity is tied so tightly to my physical sex that I can't imagine the two not being in-line with one another. I have absolutely no frame of reference to think about it from.
With homosexuality I at least understand sexual attraction well enough to be able to think about it from other perspectives - while I'm not personally sexually attracted to other men, I understand how men are sexually attractive, and I most definitely understand being sexually attracted women. So I have a frame of reference that I can understand it through.
With the whole transgender/transexual thing I don't. I was born with a sex and that is my gender, the two are equivalent to me, and pretty much everyone I've never known is the same way. Its so tightly wound into my own identity and how I've been socialized there's no other way for me to really think about it.
Its hard for me to not wonder about whats really going on, and while I'm open to the idea that its not something a person can do anything about - I'm not 100% convinced. Nor am I convinced that changing one's physical sex is the best solution to that problem - if just because pretty much every testimonial I've heard from a transsexual makes it sound like they have just as a hard of a time being socially accepted as before they started trying to assume their new gender role.
Again I'm not trying to say that there's nothing going on with transsexuals, just that I'm unsure of how to take them, or what I should think. I think talking to one about it would be interesting.
To help clear this up, changing one's gender is about a lot more than social acceptance. It's about accepting yourself and being happy with your own body. Society doesn't accept because society is shitty and biased like that, but at least once you've changed you can be happy with yourself.cynicalsaint1 said:
What does that mean though?orangeban said:
If I'm the one being asked, the bare essence of femininity is the ability to give birth. Pretty much everything that differs about women from men both biologically and socially stems from this fact. How does one feel feminine without the core of what makes one female?
I don't want to sound like I'm doubting you, or trying to be confrontational, or whatever - I'm honestly curious. Its something I have a hard time understanding.
Someone who wants to mutilate their bits. I'm not going to hide it, when it comes to actually ruining your parts and making a cheap not functional imitation I'm not exactly accepting. I see it the same as that one person who sewed a dog's face onto his (the picture is pretty gross and I don't feel like looking for it).
I'm just as intolerant when it comes to gender roles. Why do we even have them? You should like what you like and act how you act without having to worry about what society deems acceptable for arbitrary reasons.
I'm just as intolerant when it comes to gender roles. Why do we even have them? You should like what you like and act how you act without having to worry about what society deems acceptable for arbitrary reasons.
Holy leap-frogging quotes batman!orangeban said:
I guess what I don't get is why not learn to accept yourself as a male who happens to be rather feminine, rather than try to make yourself into a counterfeit-version of something you can never truly be. Having a boobs and a vagina and a high-pitched voice really isn't what being female is. In a way it seems more like trying to fool yourself than confront and accept who you really are.
My housemate introduced me to a friend of hers, who is a female-to-male transsexual. He is a wonderful guy, really clever (got a Masters in Physics!) and he's coming to our New Year do. Before I met him I didn't know what to make of the concept since I'd never met anyone like that, but now I have there's nothing odd about it to me any more. ^^
Well, I think I don't want to accept myself as male. Here's the thing, I don't want to be female, I want to be without gender, but living the feminine lifestyle (using current standards of feminity)cynicalsaint1 said:
I don't really like the current masculine lifestyle, I despise societal norms bullshit like "boy don't cry" and "real men are good at fighting!" I'm not tough, I'm not "manly" and my aspirations in life go farther than "protecting my girl" and "becoming a CEO".
The feminine lifestyle seems nicer to me, I'll admit that I've wondered if this is just a case of me saying the grass is greener on the other side, but to me it seems the expectations that society has for women, and what is socially acceptable for women to do is... well I hesitate to say easier, but more fitting to who I am as a person. Plus, the clothes are nicer.
Now, why do I need to actually live as a female to do all that stuff? Well, I dunno, because I think that society would be more accepting? That a trans-woman doing those things is more acceptable than a man doing it? That the only way to escape those expectation (rather than ignore them) is to switch gender? Maybe, I'm not sure, like I said, I only really came out to *myself* (and a close friend) a few days ago, I'm still working out the details.
The thing is, I would technically be "a man who was rather feminine" but I figure that I'd be *so* feminine that I would basically be female. It isn't really about the breasts, high-pitched voice and vagina for me, like I said, I'd probably only get that stuff so that society would be more accepting of me. A shallow reason perhaps, but it's my reason.
Only I probably wouldn't get a vagina, the idea of genital surgery is absolutely gob-smackingly terrifying to me. Got nothing against those who do, but the idea just makes me shiver.
Edit: Yeah, I'm only speaking for myself here, but still, I can only really speak for myself. Sorry 'bout that.
Oh, and I basically answer your earlier question here, just slot "giving birth" next to having breasts, a vagina and a high-pitched voice. I accept that most current ideas of what feminine is stem from the whole baby thing, but that doesn't mean they are mutually-dependant. You can have one without the other.
a person who likes trains in a slightly strange way? oh, it was a "n"...not a "m"...ill be quiet now.
I cringe. I absolutely HATE the word transsexual because it conjures up a crapload of transphobic images, and makes it sound like it's some sort of fetish. Transgender is broader, yes, but I feel much more comfortable with it.
(for context, I'm pre-everything MtF)
Are they unable to feel feminine, because they don't have the "core of what makes one female," either?
(for context, I'm pre-everything MtF)
Out of curiosity, if you define femininity as fertility,what happens to women who are unable to become pregnant? Women who have had hysterectomies? Menopausal women? Women who would die if they gave birth?cynicalsaint1 said:
Are they unable to feel feminine, because they don't have the "core of what makes one female," either?
From what I guess it has a lot to do with feeling normal. Some people just never feel like they were ever like their gender is supposed to be. Your entire life people tell you to act more like your gender or secretly you just don't want to be a certain way. By changing your gender your behavior is no longer strange. You're just like ever common man/woman except your junk doesn't really function. You are as you should be and now nobody can contest it. For some people their loved ones may have already been referring to them as the opposite gender long before surgery.Palademon said:
I guess. I don't really know. When I think of transsexual I just think of a really awkward life. Everyone who got used to you being one gender is now confronted by a different gender version. I can imagine family and friends being very weirded out or upset by your presence.
I've thought about it once. However, I don't want to be some imitation. It's still very tempting though. I'm just curious as to how well you function afterwards. It's such a sensitive surgery.
I absolutely must know what that is of right the hell now, because *drool*Haseo21 said:I don't know about you guys, but when I hear the word transsexual...I think of Hideyoshi
Okay, that was uncivilized. What I meant to say was:"Dear fellow Escapist, would you be so kind as to explain what series that screenshot is from?"
OT: It's come up in conversation several times. Through trial, error and getting shouted at a lot, I've essentially developed a surprisingly complex first reaction to any mention of trans[anything]. I'll try to keep it brief:
I'm for people doing whatever the hell makes them happy so long as it doesn't infringe on the freedoms and rights of others. If that means making the world a more varied and interesting place, I approve all the more. As a bisexual, I really don't give a toss what's between your legs and there's always strapons/anal, so whatever to that whole business. However, every time I say anything on this or similar topics, the terms I was taught as being appropriate/correct last time are apparently deeply offensive now, so I'm just going to shut up and take another drink from my vodka on the rocks. It's okay, most of my friends know I'm the quiet type anyway and if anybody asks my opinion, I'll just give a thumbs up.
I'm so very glad someone posted the 'Two Spirit' link re: the recurring bullshit idea of this being a 'First World Problem'. I trust we all read up on that phenomena and aren't going to ignore what doesn't fit into our preconceived notions, yes?
I've known several transpeople in the queer community and they're... just people, just as capable of being gorgeous or ugly or selfless or entitled as anyone else. By and large I found a lot of them to be quite... subdued, but I suppose in their position and facing the kinds of challenges they doubtless do I probably would be too.
I'll echo what a few other people have said and say I don't like the idea of defined gender roles - but I find androgyny and the bravery to challenge those defined roles quite attractive - so in that regard I've found more than one transgirl/boy pretty bloody hot.
I've known several transpeople in the queer community and they're... just people, just as capable of being gorgeous or ugly or selfless or entitled as anyone else. By and large I found a lot of them to be quite... subdued, but I suppose in their position and facing the kinds of challenges they doubtless do I probably would be too.
I'll echo what a few other people have said and say I don't like the idea of defined gender roles - but I find androgyny and the bravery to challenge those defined roles quite attractive - so in that regard I've found more than one transgirl/boy pretty bloody hot.
M2F transexual- i think of some one who is just plain wierd....and confuseing. are they gay straight bi? what do they put on a drivers license? why cant they be happy with how their born? WHAT IS GOING THROUGH YOUR HEAD? i honestly dont know.
IM SO CONFUSED!!!!
F2M- tomboy going to far.
IM SO CONFUSED!!!!
F2M- tomboy going to far.
its not a sexual thing. its slightly more like having left-handedness beaten out of you or something. you have to adopt one lifestyle, but it feels wrong. lefties have to live as righties, and men have to live as women/vice versa.Batou667 said:
that was probably the shittiest analogy anyone could come up with ever but it works. kinda. not really. ignore it. i dont know. anyone here who actually knows something about it want to tell me if that's even in the ballpark?
OT: personally, i think about the guy who was born a girl (the one with the beard)[footnote]he makes me sad because i can't even grow a 'stache and i'm biologically male.[/footnote] on My Transsexual Summer, and Kim Petras.
+1 see also; mental illness which i often see talked about in the same way. (indeed issues like this seem less like "first world problems" and more like the antithisis of that. these are very much third world problems, because those are the parts of the world which lack the means to deal with them).peruvianskys said:
aaaanyway, what do i think? well i live in an area with a higher than usual trans population, as it's viewed as a very tolerant part of the country, so many people move here either because of, on in fear of, how they'd be treated in other places. as a result i often see recognisable trans women, and are aware that there are likely many more who are (to put it a bit crudely) "passing". i guess the first image that does come to mind are those m2f women who are recognisable, mostly because they have transitioned rather late in life.
general little aside: i've heard transexulity described (i think very helpfully) in terms of "body mapping". this is the image you have of yourself in your brain that, on the most basic level, allows you to do things like, touch your finger to your nose without looking. sometimes however, it doesn't quite work like that, the map doesn't match the body. it may, for exmaple, not be the same gender, it's not that you can't feel the body parts you have which don't match this map, it's just that they're not, right. you're body has things it shouldn't, does things it shouldn't, you have to live every day with parts of your own physical being just being horribly, horribly alien. obviously there is more to being transexual than the body mapping issue alone, but this is why physical transition isn't a mere cosmetic preference. i think it can be misleading to think of transexualism in terms of how comfortable you are in the body you have now, and how you wouldn't want to change it. if you woke up tomorrow in a different body, with the world treating you as the gender that fit that, and not the one in your brain, would you really just shrug and get on with it? or would you try and reclaim, however imperfectly, the body, and name, and life you know damn well you're meant to have?
so yeah, basically i view gender surgury as corrective.
Eh, doesn't really come up in conversation enough for me to have put much thought into it. I suppose I'd be fine with being friends with a transsexual, but I'd also never be able to be romantically involved with them. Just knowing that the lady in question I'm about to be involved with once had a penis is possibly the largest turn-off I can think of. Well okay, a Swastika tatoo still might beat it, but they're pretty close.
One of my IRL friends. She's pretty [sub][sub][sub]and[/sub][/sub][/sub] awesome. Then the Escapist. Then... that's about it.