What does the Confederate flag represent to you?

[Nurb]

The vice president of the confederacy said it spesifically started because of slavery. States rights to leave the union because they wanted to keep slavery and disagreed that slavery was wrong.

Care to back that up?

The states wanted more rights instead of giving federal government complete power. Abolishing slavery from the South wasn't even considered till 1863, 2 years after the war started.

Over half of the South were against slavery because of the amount of jobs it took from them, let alone the fact that they couldn't even afford one.

"The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions ? African slavery as it exists among us ? the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the 'rock upon which the old Union would split.' He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically...

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition."
-Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens, Cornerstone Speech, March 21, 1861.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

The confederate flag represents the south. Contrary to belief, the south didn't represent slavery.

Yes it did. It represented a nation founded on the idea blacks were ment to be slaves to whites, and plainly said slavery was the main reason for the civil war by the Confederate vice president.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.268963-What-does-the-Confederate-flag-represent-to-you?page=4#10313988

Since when did one man represent an entire nation? Using that logic I can assume that all Americans hate soldiers and they all believe that God intends for them to die. Slavery may be the reason the upper class rich politicians wanted to secede, but it certainly wasn't the reason most Southerners wanted to. They wanted freedom from a nation they viewed as oppressive. They see the North as taking advantage of them and stepping on them every chance it got. I explained this in my post, did you even read it? Or did you see "The South didn't represent slavery" and immediately pull out something ONE PERSON said. It doesn't even matter that he was Vice President. People have minds and they think their own ideas. An entire nation isn't going to unanimously agree with something someone says, no matter their position.

He was the vice president... he said that their constitution was founded on blacks being in their rightful place, which is why it differed from some of the founders...

And Jefferson Davis (president) saw that emancipation would come in a generation or two regardless, and used the Confederacy as a means to get black people ready to integrate on an equal footing so as to not cause many generations of underprivileged lower class that would be exploited by others. What's your point?

They broke away, their constitution saying blacks were ment to be slaves, but intended to intergrate them...

Can I buy whatever you're on?

Sure, it's called fact. Jefferson Davis taught his slaves to read and write and to have advanced skills so that they could integrate into society. But you won't believe it since you are obviously very biased.

 

[Ohhi]

To me it doesn't represent Bigotry and racism but to other people it does where I live people use it as a symbol of "southern pride" but the funny thing is how can they have southern pride when most of them have lived in this same town for most of their lives and we live in FUCKING OREGON.

 

[Nurb]

The confederate flag represents the south. Contrary to belief, the south didn't represent slavery.

Yes it did. It represented a nation founded on the idea blacks were ment to be slaves to whites, and plainly said slavery was the main reason for the civil war by the Confederate vice president.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.268963-What-does-the-Confederate-flag-represent-to-you?page=4#10313988

Since when did one man represent an entire nation? Using that logic I can assume that all Americans hate soldiers and they all believe that God intends for them to die. Slavery may be the reason the upper class rich politicians wanted to secede, but it certainly wasn't the reason most Southerners wanted to. They wanted freedom from a nation they viewed as oppressive. They see the North as taking advantage of them and stepping on them every chance it got. I explained this in my post, did you even read it? Or did you see "The South didn't represent slavery" and immediately pull out something ONE PERSON said. It doesn't even matter that he was Vice President. People have minds and they think their own ideas. An entire nation isn't going to unanimously agree with something someone says, no matter their position.

He was the vice president... he said that their constitution was founded on blacks being in their rightful place, which is why it differed from some of the founders...

And Jefferson Davis (president) saw that emancipation would come in a generation or two regardless, and used the Confederacy as a means to get black people ready to integrate on an equal footing so as to not cause many generations of underprivileged lower class that would be exploited by others. What's your point?

They broke away, their constitution saying blacks were ment to be slaves, but intended to intergrate them...

Can I buy whatever you're on?

Sure, it's called fact. Jefferson Davis taught his slaves to read and write and to have advanced skills so that they could integrate into society. But you won't believe it since you are obviously a biased bigot.

Right right, They spent large sums of money to own people out of the goodness of their hearts, and intended to release them despite their constitution saying their natural status is submission to the white man. I'm surprised they didn't realize they could teach people without owning them.

I love that you think calling someone who points out craziness a bigot actually makes yours disappear. Stop listening to talkshow hosts, I hear this from conservatives who parrot words when they have no clue about their proper use and definition... like saying communism, socialism, and fascism are the same thing.

Are you being sarcastic?

 

[crimson5pheonix]

The confederate flag represents the south. Contrary to belief, the south didn't represent slavery.

Yes it did. It represented a nation founded on the idea blacks were ment to be slaves to whites, and plainly said slavery was the main reason for the civil war by the Confederate vice president.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.268963-What-does-the-Confederate-flag-represent-to-you?page=4#10313988

Since when did one man represent an entire nation? Using that logic I can assume that all Americans hate soldiers and they all believe that God intends for them to die. Slavery may be the reason the upper class rich politicians wanted to secede, but it certainly wasn't the reason most Southerners wanted to. They wanted freedom from a nation they viewed as oppressive. They see the North as taking advantage of them and stepping on them every chance it got. I explained this in my post, did you even read it? Or did you see "The South didn't represent slavery" and immediately pull out something ONE PERSON said. It doesn't even matter that he was Vice President. People have minds and they think their own ideas. An entire nation isn't going to unanimously agree with something someone says, no matter their position.

He was the vice president... he said that their constitution was founded on blacks being in their rightful place, which is why it differed from some of the founders...

And Jefferson Davis (president) saw that emancipation would come in a generation or two regardless, and used the Confederacy as a means to get black people ready to integrate on an equal footing so as to not cause many generations of underprivileged lower class that would be exploited by others. What's your point?

They broke away, their constitution saying blacks were ment to be slaves, but intended to intergrate them...

Can I buy whatever you're on?

Sure, it's called fact. Jefferson Davis taught his slaves to read and write and to have advanced skills so that they could integrate into society. But you won't believe it since you are obviously a biased bigot.

Right right, They spent large sums of money to own people out of the goodness of their hearts, and intended to release them despite their constitution saying their natural status is submission to the white man.

I love that you think calling someone who points out craziness a bigot actually makes yours disappear. Stop listening to talkshow hosts, I hear this from conservatives who parrot words when they have no clue about their proper use and definition... like saying communism, socialism, and fascism are the same thing.

I'm calling you that because you're painting both sides as taking 1 stance. Were there racists in the South who saw them being slaves as their proper place? Sure, you put 1 of them forward. Were there Southerners who saw them as people and fully expected them to integrate? You bet. Were there Northerners who saw slavery as entirely immoral and evil? Yup. Were there Northern racists who despised blacks but didn't want the South to secede for other reasons? Of course, Lincoln was one of them.

There are actually *gasp* shades of grey in the conflict. So yes, you are a bigot because you see both sides as having only 1 ideal each.

 

[Nurb]

The confederate flag represents the south. Contrary to belief, the south didn't represent slavery.

Yes it did. It represented a nation founded on the idea blacks were ment to be slaves to whites, and plainly said slavery was the main reason for the civil war by the Confederate vice president.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.268963-What-does-the-Confederate-flag-represent-to-you?page=4#10313988

Since when did one man represent an entire nation? Using that logic I can assume that all Americans hate soldiers and they all believe that God intends for them to die. Slavery may be the reason the upper class rich politicians wanted to secede, but it certainly wasn't the reason most Southerners wanted to. They wanted freedom from a nation they viewed as oppressive. They see the North as taking advantage of them and stepping on them every chance it got. I explained this in my post, did you even read it? Or did you see "The South didn't represent slavery" and immediately pull out something ONE PERSON said. It doesn't even matter that he was Vice President. People have minds and they think their own ideas. An entire nation isn't going to unanimously agree with something someone says, no matter their position.

He was the vice president... he said that their constitution was founded on blacks being in their rightful place, which is why it differed from some of the founders...

And Jefferson Davis (president) saw that emancipation would come in a generation or two regardless, and used the Confederacy as a means to get black people ready to integrate on an equal footing so as to not cause many generations of underprivileged lower class that would be exploited by others. What's your point?

They broke away, their constitution saying blacks were ment to be slaves, but intended to intergrate them...

Can I buy whatever you're on?

Sure, it's called fact. Jefferson Davis taught his slaves to read and write and to have advanced skills so that they could integrate into society. But you won't believe it since you are obviously a biased bigot.

Right right, They spent large sums of money to own people out of the goodness of their hearts, and intended to release them despite their constitution saying their natural status is submission to the white man.

I love that you think calling someone who points out craziness a bigot actually makes yours disappear. Stop listening to talkshow hosts, I hear this from conservatives who parrot words when they have no clue about their proper use and definition... like saying communism, socialism, and fascism are the same thing.

I'm calling you that because you're painting both sides as taking 1 stance. Were there racists in the South who saw them being slaves as their proper place? Sure, you put 1 of them forward. Were there Southerners who saw them as people and fully expected them to integrate? You bet. Were there Northerners who saw slavery as entirely immoral and evil? Yup. Were there Northern racists who despised blacks but didn't want the South to secede for other reasons? Of course, Lincoln was one of them.

There are actually *gasp* shades of grey in the conflict. So yes, you are a bigot because you see both sides as having only 1 ideal each.

I'm saying the north would have tolerated slavery if the south didn't flip their shit, thinking licoln was going to pass a federal law that would repeal chattalhood and in turn hurt their economy, and try to leave the union over it. I'm also saying if people put the past behind them, then they wouldn't still be clinging to a flag that was flown by people killing US soldiers at the time. If they dumped the flag, they'd stop getting so much shit and people who call themselves 'real Americans' shouldn't be defending a flag that is not American. You don't wave a flag that represented a failed nation that wared with your own.

 

[DanielBrown]

*Googles confederate flag*

Uhm... white trash.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

The confederate flag represents the south. Contrary to belief, the south didn't represent slavery.

Yes it did. It represented a nation founded on the idea blacks were ment to be slaves to whites, and plainly said slavery was the main reason for the civil war by the Confederate vice president.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.268963-What-does-the-Confederate-flag-represent-to-you?page=4#10313988

Since when did one man represent an entire nation? Using that logic I can assume that all Americans hate soldiers and they all believe that God intends for them to die. Slavery may be the reason the upper class rich politicians wanted to secede, but it certainly wasn't the reason most Southerners wanted to. They wanted freedom from a nation they viewed as oppressive. They see the North as taking advantage of them and stepping on them every chance it got. I explained this in my post, did you even read it? Or did you see "The South didn't represent slavery" and immediately pull out something ONE PERSON said. It doesn't even matter that he was Vice President. People have minds and they think their own ideas. An entire nation isn't going to unanimously agree with something someone says, no matter their position.

He was the vice president... he said that their constitution was founded on blacks being in their rightful place, which is why it differed from some of the founders...

And Jefferson Davis (president) saw that emancipation would come in a generation or two regardless, and used the Confederacy as a means to get black people ready to integrate on an equal footing so as to not cause many generations of underprivileged lower class that would be exploited by others. What's your point?

They broke away, their constitution saying blacks were ment to be slaves, but intended to intergrate them...

Can I buy whatever you're on?

Sure, it's called fact. Jefferson Davis taught his slaves to read and write and to have advanced skills so that they could integrate into society. But you won't believe it since you are obviously a biased bigot.

Right right, They spent large sums of money to own people out of the goodness of their hearts, and intended to release them despite their constitution saying their natural status is submission to the white man.

I love that you think calling someone who points out craziness a bigot actually makes yours disappear. Stop listening to talkshow hosts, I hear this from conservatives who parrot words when they have no clue about their proper use and definition... like saying communism, socialism, and fascism are the same thing.

I'm calling you that because you're painting both sides as taking 1 stance. Were there racists in the South who saw them being slaves as their proper place? Sure, you put 1 of them forward. Were there Southerners who saw them as people and fully expected them to integrate? You bet. Were there Northerners who saw slavery as entirely immoral and evil? Yup. Were there Northern racists who despised blacks but didn't want the South to secede for other reasons? Of course, Lincoln was one of them.

There are actually *gasp* shades of grey in the conflict. So yes, you are a bigot because you see both sides as having only 1 ideal each.

I'm saying the north would have tolerated slavery if the south didn't flip their shit, thinking licoln was going to pass a federal law that would repeal chattalhood and in turn hurt their economy, and try to leave the union over it. I'm also saying if people put the past behind them, then they wouldn't still be clinging to a flag that was flown by people killing US soldiers at the time. If they dumped the flag, they'd stop getting so much shit and people who call themselves 'real Americans' shouldn't be defending a flag that is not American. You don't wave a flag that represented a failed nation that wared with your own.

Say that more clearly first then, you come off as saying the South was nothing but evil and the North was nothing but good. Both sides were different flavors of different and nothing more.

 

[amadhatter]

As long as Anti-confederate sentiment doesn't translate to anti-Lynyrd Skynyrd sentiment,I can take it or leave it.

 

[mikecoulter]

The Dukes of Hazard. Oh, and Pantera.

 

[KissofKetchup]

Well as I see them even in the middle-west part of Ohio (part of the Union during the civil war and even its slavery allowing southern neighbor Kentucky remained in the Union) I see the the Confederate flag to be a symbol of stupidity whenever I see someone who is not from the South. Otherwise I just see it as a symbol of regional pride, just like a football jersey or a MLB baseball hat can be.

 

[Shackel11]

If I don't know the person, to me it represents:

Ignorance
Bigotry
Hicks
Rednecks
Racism
Slavery
Treason and betrayal
Stupidity

More importantly, and more infuriatingly, the absolute pinnacle of political immaturity, because, as we ALL know, if you lose a MAJORITY vote want in a DEMOCRATIC society, you should BREAK AWAY then ATTACK who you formerly broke off of when they are merely asking to keep FEDERAL property.

It was born in slavery and ignorance, made their mistake in slavery and ignorance, and died in their own waste.

Take my words with a grain of salt; I AM a liberal.

A liberal African American.

A liberal African American who lives in Illinois.

You know what? Scratch that. Take my words with a cup of salt.

 

[velcrokidneyz]

im not even gonna bother...

Most people on the Escapist, when proven demonstrably incorrect, simply stop posting, rather than come back to make an entire post saying how it's no longer worth posting about. Flac00 is correct. The North may not have begun the war with the intention of eliminating slavery, but the South believed slavery was critical to their way of life and was convinced that the only way to protect slavery was to leave the Union. The South thought the North was plotting to destroy the Southern economy by eliminating slavery with their large congressional advantage. This had been kept under control by the South being able to ensure balance in the Senate [http://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/Missouri.html] and a President (and thus tie-breaking Vice-President) who was sympathetic towards, if not outright supportive of, their cause. When Lincoln was elected, a President from a party specifically against Slavery, the South panicked and left. Some, such as South Carolina, left even before Lincoln could even be inaugurated.

Texas made it crystal clear [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.268963.10317438] in their official list of reasons for secession that slavery was not only the primary issue, but practically the only issue, for leaving the Union.

and this is why i hate this site sometimes.

 

[Comrade_Beric]

and this is why i hate this site sometimes.

Meaning what? You hate that some people stop posting when they realize they've been proven wrong (a practice you seem to disagree with)? Or that people who repeat hearsay and revisionist history occasionally get knocked around by actual primary document proof that they're wrong?

Say what you will about what the flag means to you, that is opinion and you have every right to it. No one, however, has a right to their own facts, and the fact is that in document [http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html#Georgia] after document [http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html#Mississippi] after document [http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html#Texas] the South, the Confederate government, and the individual Confederate states explicitly cited the protection of Slavery and the "natural and moral condition" of the "African Race" as subservient to the "White Race" as their reasons for leaving the Union. If states' rights were really the issue, Mississippi would not have explicitly listed the fact that Northern States had fought for Nullification [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive_Slave_Act_of_1850#Nullification] of the federal Fugitive Slave Act which required Northern police to capture and return to their masters all runaway slaves.

 

[FalloutJack]

What does the Confederate flag represent to you?

Dukes of Hazzard.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

There are actually *gasp* shades of grey in the conflict.

This is true. The Confederates, for example, did wear grey. And they did in fact wear different shades of it.

I almost put a "heh" after grey just for the joke, but decided against it.

 

[rainman2203]

It represents bigotry, racism, and a failed idea of how government should work (to me at least). I honestly get embarrassed when I'm with someone from out of state and we see a guy with the bars and stars on his truck. I'm in Indiana- why the hell do rednecks feel the need to have the flag on their stuff? While terribly racist after WWII, we were definitely on the North during the Civil War.

I get the rebellion thing. I get the southern rock thing. Both of those are interesting and worth celebrating. But to be honest, its the same as associating the Nazi flag with strong government and efficient military tactics. You miss the terrible bigoted idiocy underneath and you can't really separate the two.

Sidenote: Calling the Civil War "The War of Northern Aggression" is one of the more laughable things someone can do. It immediately throws your credibility out the window.

 

[ryanxm]

to me it just represents a failed attempt at secession

Basically this.

FFS some people are so retarded when it comes to this.

erm are you calling me retarded?

 

[Plurralbles]

to me it just represents a failed attempt at secession

Basically this.

FFS some people are so retarded when it comes to this.

erm are you calling me retarded?

nah, agreeign with you