What does Yahtzee want?

martin's a madman

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mikespoff said:
Hubilub said:
... You list games he likes in your post!
That's my point, though - it's never the game that he's reviewing. I don't doubt that he remembers a time when he once enjoyed games, but it seems he struggles to praise a game while actually reviewing it, regardless of its quality.
But... he reviewed all those games and praised them when he did review them.
He also like Bioshock it seemed.

So, he likes those games a lot more than the new ones maybe?
Why do we really care about one person's opinion anyway?
His videos are generally entertaining, and he obviously plays up the hate because it causes a response (like yours) and that's useful for revenue.
 

Housebroken Lunatic

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BenFace said:
if I want a review of a game to inform my opinion of it, I go elsewhere
That's a very healthy attitude. However there is a severe difficulty in the gaming culture to actually be able to separate the REVIEWERS from the CRITICS sometimes.

A reviewer is someone who goes through a game and try to describe it's different aspects, functions and merits in a manner as unbiased and neutral as possible in order to let the reader know what the game is about and thus form his or her own opinion of the game in question. If the reviewer wish to interject a personal opinion about the game in question in his or her article, then he or she should (as a GOOD reviewer) make it abundantly clear which parts of the written text are actually nothing more than personal and biased opinions and which are objective descriptions of the game in question.

A CRITIC however is someone like Yahtzee (and pretty much every single gaming journalist out there since pretty much all of them feel the need to write down "scores" about the games they "review" and never leav their own opinions throughout the entire article). I.e a person that never truly focus the article into being about describing a game in a neutral and unbiased manner.

So, for the record (this is meant in general and not as a comment to you BenFace), Yahtzee isn't doing game reviews, he's a game CRITIC. What's good about him though is the fact that he hasn't tried to pass himself off as anything other than a critic, in contrast to what a shitload of other gaming journalists do.

And i for one wish that a few more gaming journalists actually had a decent sense of journalistic integrity... But then again that's not exactly an abundant quality in modern media these days, so I can't really lampoon on gaming journalism alone...
 

Natdaprat

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He simply picks at all the little bad things. Like on the early bioshock review, he started by quickly running through the good things, and then ranted about the bad things.

Bad reviews make his show more interesting. I feel he likes some games more than he lets on.
 

Cynical skeptic

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Steve5513 said:
To be fair he never said the rest of FF XIII is crap. People say the first 20 hours is bad then it gets good, that is the majority of feedback he got. He said in reply (To paraphrase) that sitting through 20 hours in the hopes that it might get better is not worth it. I agree with him there.
Pretty much. While I'll be the last person alive to try to support the current climate of instant gratification, subjecting me to 10-20 hours of dullness and slog with the promise of "fun" later just reeks of the game attempting to condition you into thinking more of the same is fun.
 

Dascylus

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Movie Bob Yahtzee and even the Unskippable guys all garner their comedy in their videos from the endless gold mine that is the face slapping dollar sign motivated crap that finds its way into our media.
As for being impossible to please... Everytime I ride the bus into town on a hot day with child in pram I sympathise with how Yahtzee must feel towards the game industry.
There is noting wrong with the bus, it turns up on time, but when you pile a ton of people who all have a personal sense of entitlement and no consideration for the next person into a small place with poor air-conditioning you do start to spew your rage at the whole concept of riding the bus.
 

TheRightToArmBears

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Moviebob is a reviewer. Yahtzee is more of a comedian. I mean, if he spent his episodes saying how good the game was, it wouldn't be as funny.
 

Therumancer

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Actually while his taste is differant from mine, he does have a few points he is relatively consistant on, and I sometimes point this out, especially when for some reason he seems to rag on an element he claims to have liked elsewhere, without explaining exactly why it didn't work in the game he's talking about.

That said, we DO AGREE on a simple point, and that is that older games were in many cases simply better than the newer, increasingly derivitive stuff you see now. Most of the games are designed by committee by increasingly greedy game companies who are less interested in taking the risks needed to innovate. We pretty much see the same things again and again, and it comes more about how well something was done, rather that what it brings to the table that is genuinely new.

This is not to say that old formulas are bad, for example I (unlike Yahtzee) defend turn based RPGs and Strategy games and say that there is no real need to change a formula that is almost zen-like in it's perfection for what it sets out to do. The big issue of course being that the audience for what it sets out to do while being large, is currently outnumbered by fans of other sorts of games who knock everything they aren't interested in, in hopes that more of what they want will be produced.

At any rate, the point I'm getting to is that the original "Prince Of Persia: Sands Of Time" included a number of unique mechanics like the time manipulation and the like, and had a lot of time spent on it's story. The current "Reboot" is pretty much a "color by number" type of remake that does most of the same things, but doesn't achieve them as well with the new technology, while having less of a creative process involved in writing, and bringing in things like the temporal manipulation with minimal writing and justification because "it's his thing" as Yahtzee puts it.

When it comes to stealth games, there are no real reasons for some of the current stealth games to be on rails to the extent they are when previous generations of games have shown that it is possible to create a more interactive, sandbox, type stealth scenatio. It's hard to praise a current stealth game when the central mechanics and gameplay of games like "Thief" which are now ancient were better.

What's more, while it gets into a genere Yahtzee doesn't like, look at the recent claims by Squeenix when it comes to "Final Fantasy VII". They are saying that they simply cannot do a game on the level of what they previously achieved with the current technology. The reasons for this are irrelevent, the key elements is "can't do what older games did". Something that is universal between generes it seems. Basically the current technology was not an advancement and it's quite probably that current games blow chips comparitively because simply put nobody can do the kinds of radical things we saw in previous game generations. I mean we why Squeenix claims they can't do Final Fantasy VII with current tech, basically that the systems are hard enough to work with and they've gotten so greedy in what they expect to be paid, that it would cost too much money and take too many hours for people to put in the needed time. The same basic logic probably applies to why you don't see more "Thief-like" stealth segements, to design those kinds of missions in numbers for current games would probably take similar amounts of money from paying overpriced graphics artists working with the current technology. Doing things on rails takes less time, and is both easier and cheaper.

Basically this seems to get to what me and John Funk have our back and forth about periodically. Let's say you need someone to design a wall. Today's code monkey wants tons more money than he did in proportion to today's market than he did back when you had games like "Thief". So basically the more differant looking wall-spaces and objects you want, and you need lots of them for a true "sandbox" enviroment, the more expensive it is (obviously) and with the rising amounts of money being demanded, even in house from the companies themselves, it's actually regressed gaming.

Whether he agrees with my line of thought or not and the specific reasons, I think Yahtzee's ultimate conclusions/message is similar to what I'm saying.

For those who read this far, keep in mind that games have bigger budgets than ever before. People talk about the changes in technology and so on, but consider it doesn't actually cost that much to rent office space, and buy even hundreds of computers and various electronic gizmos when your talking these budgets that are in the tens of millions of dollars. You can rent office space for a long time, and buy a lot of computers for a million bucks. So basically if you figure they threw a couple million into each thing your looking at staggering amounts of money that can only be going one place: human resources.

As has been pointed out in articles here (talking about things like a desire for gaming billboard awards and rankings and such) the gaming industry plays the numbers very close to it's chest. Professional analysts can only pin down the gaming industry and what it spends/makes into a very general ballpark, and truthfully I think there are reasons for this, and there would be a lot of issues with consumer outcry and such if those numbers came out. I tend to look towards "Ryan Quickbender" on ENN and how he starts out his industry commentary segements by calling us all "Cashbags". Humor aside I think that actually is the attitude about consumers from an industry that knows it's deeply in need of reform, but of course doesn't want to do so. When you have companies saying that they literally cannot produce the equivilent of games a decade or more old, despite having budgets of absolutly ginormous proportions that should be fueling all kinds of undistelled gaming awesomeness, you know there is a problem.

Congrats to those who read this far. Hopefully I didn't ramble too much in getting to my point.
 

vodkainferno

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He likes Branston Pickle Spread...

On a more serious note, I believe at one point he did say that nobody likes it when he is nice to a game, so he just points out at all the flaws. And then Some...

EDOT: And games that try to do things differently.
 

Dascylus

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Imagine Yahtzee on prozac reviewing Mariokart Wii... Aside from the "funny cos it's different" angle would it be a proper review that you could use as a guide to your next $60 game purchase.
 

craddoke

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I think he would be somewhat satisfied if developers stopped ruining their games by falling prey to the same design flaws over and over again. At this point, I can almost guess what his complaints are even before listening to him based solely on a game's genre - and guess what? That's not his fault. It's the fault of people who think that the unimaginative and flawed is good enough simply because something like it sold X number of units last Christmas.

Basically, he wants those creating games to remember that they're artists and not used car salesmen.
 

ProfessorLayton

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Steve5513 said:
To be fair he never said the rest of FF XIII is crap. People say the first 20 hours is bad then it gets good, that is the majority of feedback he got. He said in reply (To paraphrase) that sitting through 20 hours in the hopes that it might get better is not worth it. I agree with him there.
But he went into the game knowing that he wouldn't like it and didn't give it a fair chance. What I'm saying is you can't have a legitimate review from the first five hours of a game that's that long. It's obvious that he's not meant to be taken seriously. He's funny, but I'm not going to take his advice on games. I can understand pointing out all the flaws, that's what reviews should be about. But he doesn't even try to like the games anymore.
 

Le_Lisra

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Probaby a dozen people aready told you, but:

You are missing the point. Big time. Stop thinking about it and do something more pleasing.
 

Oleg Shabrov

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the one thing to keep in mind is, when Yahtzee plays a game that's pretty good, he will usually say so before diving into it's faults. If he let's a statement equivalent to "this game is pretty good" slip out, that should be people's queue that the game is actually worth checking out.

To all you people who say he's not nice to games, I only say "no duh." He critiques them for their faults, not offer them kind words for their good-ness. And he did say that the Batman game was pretty good, despite the faults he was about to point out...
 

SenseOfTumour

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I reckon he's like a comedian I just can't bring the name to right now, who said something like 'If you're wanting to know what I really think about big issues, then looking thru my material and interviews isn't going to get you very far'.

It's a persona, he couldn't do his job if he didn't have a very real love for gaming, just as Charlie Brooker genuinely loves TV (and gaming), they both just wish for things to be so much better, because every now and then someone shows that they can be.

It must feel like they have a really gifted child, that rarely really tries. Every now and then he'll come home with an A, but most of the times it's a C because that's how much he needed to do to get by, and Yahtzee just is venting the frustration of knowing they could do so much better!
 

Vohn_exel

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mikespoff said:
First off, I'm a fan of Zero Punctuation. I like a lot of what Yahtzee does with the posts, his visual and written humour is great.

But I have to wonder - does he actually like games?

I ask this because he literally seems impossible to please. I can't recall a single contemporary game which he actually said anything equivalent to, "This is a great game, you should play it", with the exception of Portal. Sure, he's praised older games like Psychonauts or Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, but generally only as a contrast to illustrate how much the game that he's actually reviewing sucks. In the past year, he barely managed to be positive about Batman: Arkham Asylum or Mass Effect 2, which are both nearly flawless games and garnered pretty universal positive reviews. If it's not rosily-tinted with nostalgia, apparently it just sucks.

I contrast this with Movie Bob, who does actually seem to like movies. He gets excited about great ones, he gets angry about ones that suck. In other words, he actually gives useful critique.

If you're just looking for the schadenfreude of whatching someone vent his considerable spleen for 5 minutes, ZP's great, but it really doesn't seem to be offering much to someone who's trying to assess a game's quality.

Thoughts?

I don't think that Yahtzee has ever intended to be an actual like...game "reviewer." I think from day one he's been nothing but a guy that likes to rant about his games. He doesn't hate games, he probably likes quite a few but in every game there is something that irritates us, something that we'd change or just don't understand.

I cannot say that I base my opinions of games off any one reviewer, but I do find myself interested in many games because of his reviews. If anything, he's nothing but a game critic. Thats where Yahtzee works best, in my opinion. He works best when there is a terrible game to be thought of terribly. Sure, even the best blockbusters can have some nitpicks to be made about it, but Yahtzee's at his best with truly terrible games. Don't think of him as a reviewer, think of him as someone with a lovely way of expressing his opinion.
 

Housebroken Lunatic

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SenseOfTumour said:
I reckon he's like a comedian I just can't bring the name to right now, who said something like 'If you're wanting to know what I really think about big issues, then looking thru my material and interviews isn't going to get you very far'.
Which just goes to show that far from all comedians actually have the ability to be comedic geniouses like Bill Hicks who could actually express his real opinions about big issues and still make it hilarious.
 

Firefoxmccoy

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I myself belive that he does enjoy most games he plays.

However it is a critics job to point out every bad part of a game that they can find.

He even said so himself in a video...Ghostbusters I think.