what happened to doctors?

[murphy7801]

YOU'RE ALL GOD DAMN COMMUNISTS.

COMMUNISM FAILS BECAUSE IT FAILS.

Well and fascist because Germans have a national health system.

-snip-

It was joke responce to joke post hope you are aware. But that's very informative, personally I like the french health system since broke my arm on holiday and got good treatment.

Yeah, I know it was a joke. I just wanted to say that there is a middle ground between total communism (like in the United Soviet States of Great Britain) and total capitalism (like the one the Americans have President Nixon to thank for, as far as I know). The "fascist" way, if you will.

That's why the USA doesn't tax its citizens

Tell that to the 20% that comes out of my paycheck and goes to the feds, city and state.

20%? TWENTY?!?

From the tone of your posting I guess that you think that that is still way too much. Let me guess: You don't know who it is your paying taxes for in the first place, right?

And let me take another guess: You don't own any mirrors, huh?

20% sounds fair if includes all taxes and you get good public services for your money like free health care. I pay around 23% thinks that's reasonable but I live in the uk

 

[Sectan]

America. Land of the Free (as long as you have money).

It's ridiculous that a first world country exists without a national health system, but I suppose that's what happens when corporations have such a huge influence.

Politicians, probably having stakes in the insurance business, scare people into thinking its one step closer to big brother. THEY'RE CONTROLLING YOUR HEALTH MAN, PUTTING CHIPS IN YOUR HEADS AND TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO! At least that's what my grandmother thinks a national health system would be, but she's weird like that. She was scared for her life when she found out Obama was president.

 

[Qitz]

I see no problem is a national health care system. The only real problem with it is, well, we're Americans. Americans are greedy idiots when it comes to free things.

I wouldn't want it to be completely free right off the bat because I know there are people out there who would get blood tests and MRI's because they had a bit of a head ache. I see nothing wrong with helping a citizen whose been in a car accident, broke a limb and got a cast all for free, provided it wasn't their fault, if they ran a red light and t-boned another car then I say they should pay for it themselves.

I also don't see how people can argue about how "Why should I pay for the medical problems of someone else?" when your taxes already do that. State taxes are used to pay for roads that you'll never drive on, water you'll never drink, food regulations for stuff you'll never eat, buses you'll never ride, ect...

So yeah, I'd be for a restricted health care system, at first, that gives priority to people who were injured due to no fault of their own. Birth defects, accidents, military injuries and the like should be given some leeway while someone who breaks a leg by B.A.S.E. jumping should be shit outta luck.

 

[Booradlee]

A country that values business opportunity over the wellbeing of their own people, basically.

I know right? I personally don't know what I'd do if I didn't have Big Brother looking out for me. It's all right, everything is all right, the struggle's almost finished. I have won the victory over myself. I love Big Brother.

 

[Booradlee]

America. Land of the Free (as long as you have money).

It's ridiculous that a first world country exists without a national health system, but I suppose that's what happens when corporations have such a huge influence.

Politicians, probably having stakes in the insurance business, scare people into thinking its one step closer to big brother. THEY'RE CONTROLLING YOUR HEALTH MAN, PUTTING CHIPS IN YOUR HEADS AND TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO! At least that's what my grandmother thinks a national health system would be, but she's weird like that. She was scared for her life when she found out Obama was president.

Actually my main problem is the politicians making money From the insurance companies. So their looking out for those companies more than for me. Did you hear of a single plan that got rid of the insurance companies?

I'm not afraid of the microchips, I'm afraid of corruption in the system and a system that controls everything. Everybody is complaining about health care for everyone, and how expensive it is. But it's always the Doctors fault, not the insurance companies fault who don't cover it.

We need more Doctors in our health care, and less Bureaucrats mucking up the system.

 

[BrassButtons]

nor should it give you the right to say "i wont take care of you unless we can accept your insurance. and i wont tell you what insurance we take. trust me, you cant afford it."

I'm just going to touch on this for a moment.

Why not?

Doctors are people too, and they have to make a living. I can guarantee that right now, there are people dying who could be living if you were devoting all of your time to helping them instead of yourself. You could be in Africa helping poor villagers develop sustainable farms, or even just spending all of your time down at the soup kitchen feeding the homeless.

We have phrases like "saintly" because most people are, by nature, interested primarily in their own survival and happiness. Once you are happy and secure, then (if you're a good person), you can look to the happiness and security of strangers. Why assume that just because someone trained as a doctor, they're required to not be happy or secure?

The problem isn't with the doctors, it's with the incredibly broken system in the United States. The American health care system has the dubious distinction of being taxpayer-intensive and totally worthless at the same time. (I'm in Canada, which is significantly better but still has room for improvement).

youre telling me that its ok that a doctor can refuse to save a guy with a pipe in his lung because he has medicaid yet can accept a guy with a twisted ankle because they have blue cross?

thats kinda what i got from it so i might be wrong

I think what he's telling you is that asking doctors to see patients without an insurance that will cover the procedure is asking them to give away treatment for free (there are exceptions where the patient will pay the charge themselves, but a doctor can't count on that). If you're going to say that doctors should put the welfare of others ahead of their own personal greed, then you should be putting the welfare of others ahead of your personal greed. But most people don't do that. They don't work for free, they don't donate large sums of money to charity. Remember, if a doctor treats someone for free he is losing somewhere between $40-$80, and that's just for the office visit (meaning he came into the room and met with the patient). If there's something actually wrong with them the doctor can easily be looking at a few hundred dollars loss. The argument for why they should accept this is "people's lives are at stake." Yet we don't expect others to donate hundreds to charity, even though people's lives are at stake.

Also, a guy with a pipe in his lung won't go to a general practitioner, he'll go to an ER (or he'll go to a GP and get an ambulance ride to the ER). And they will remove the pipe no matter what. In life-or-death situations doctors treat first and ask questions later. But they have to know it is a life-or-death scenario, which I'm willing to bet was not the case with the person who was coughing blood. If the people in that office didn't see it, they wouldn't assume he was there for a life-and-death reason. They aren't ER doctors, after all--they don't DEAL with life-and-death. (That said, if they did see it and failed to call an ambulance, there should be some MAJOR ramifications for that.)

 

[Rednog]

The problem with medicine today is not the doctors, at least in America, it is the corporations running the hospitals and the people who get treated and are douche-bags. I was in med school for two years before I quit, and patients are the most fickle people one can ever deal with. And this culture of suing doctors unfortunately leads to this waste of money that forced the US to have to deal with the refusal of people. People expect unrealistic things from medicine, or if a single hair gets up their arse they jump to sue. Yes there are legitimate complaints but for every legit complaint there are 3 other frivolous ones that money gets wasted on.
In healthcare where the gov't has to pay for, the doctors are fairly well shielded against this nonsense and people who try to sue end up having to face the gov't and even in they somehow win they won't be swimming in money for the rest of their lives like in the US.

 

[Macgyvercas]

YOU'RE ALL GOD DAMN COMMUNISTS.

COMMUNISM FAILS BECAUSE IT FAILS.

Well and fascist because Germans have a national health system.

-snip-

It was joke responce to joke post hope you are aware. But that's very informative, personally I like the french health system since broke my arm on holiday and got good treatment.

Yeah, I know it was a joke. I just wanted to say that there is a middle ground between total communism (like in the United Soviet States of Great Britain) and total capitalism (like the one the Americans have President Nixon to thank for, as far as I know). The "fascist" way, if you will.

That's why the USA doesn't tax its citizens

Tell that to the 20% that comes out of my paycheck and goes to the feds, city and state.

20%? TWENTY?!?

From the tone of your posting I guess that you think that that is still way too much. Let me guess: You don't know who it is your paying taxes for in the first place, right?

And let me take another guess: You don't own any mirrors, huh?

Oh, I'm aware of where it goes, and yes I do own mirrors (and see what you are trying to say).

What I took issue with was the statement that America doesn't tax it's citizens.

 

[fix-the-spade]

We've already got medicare and medicaid in america, coupled with social security, those systems are why we're broke.

Actually, America's broke because it pawned off it's heavy industry to China, used state money to buy out the failing automotive industry (George Bush did this, yet people call Obama a Socialist?!) and most importantly, it's been fighting two wars for the best part of a decade that have single handedly taken America from budget surplus to massive debt.

Clinton left America with money to spare, Bush jr left it in such a big hole that anything Obama did was doomed from the get go.

As far as health care goes, why America hasn't gotten as far as having state enforced health insurance is beyond me. Doesn't need to be fancy, just a medical emergency cover that comes out your tax bill, few bucks a month...

 

[Cyrus Hanley]

Healthcare decisions are made by the insurance companies.

 

[Korolev]

Well, as a future Medical student, we are not required to take the Hippocratic Oath. It's encouraged, but we're not required to. I haven't taken it, because I haven't graduate yet (or even started for that matter - I got in, but I start next year). The Hippocratic oath is not legally binding, or even enforced by medical associations, and few doctors take it seriously these days, which is a shame.