What Has Nintendo Done Right Lately?
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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VG_Addict said:
The bit about Sega was a retread of the video. Not exactly contradicting himself. Since he still promoted the idea.
What does the first sentence have to do with the second? Arbitrage is a RIGHT of the consumer to resell their own property.Atmos Duality said:
If the markets aren't free, then by definition they're not optimal for the consumer.
Sega would be bankrupt right now if they didn't go third party, so I'd say wherever they are now made more money than they would have.VG_Addict said:
Yes, and a zinger after an argument doesn't mean that he didn't make the argument.VG_Addict said:
Sega, who was already dying, and Atari, who had been bought out by the time they went third party and were also facing failures already?VG_Addict said:
Yeah, it kinda did make them more money. By the virtue of continuing to exist.
Or do you think they're less successful than, say, THQ?
Do I think it could happen immediately? Well, depends on what you mean by could. Technically, but I think it's unlikely to happen in its immediacy.VG_Addict said:
Sega and Atari managed to keep afloat, which still elevated their status. And as someone has already mentioned, Atari didn't even own its own IPs at that point, which makes it even less an apt comparison.
Virtually anything can happen. It's a matter of probabilities. Whether something is possible is useless. It's possible Microsoft and Sony bail and Nintendo is hit by a meteor and there is no next gen. Is it likely? Nah.VG_Addict said:
So here's the thing: we don't have data for a reliable prediction of the market. We don't know how long the Wii U will stay out. We don't know how long this gen will last. We do know Nintendo's trying to turn things around, but we don't know if it'll work. We only know so far it hasn't. Well, that's to be expected, honestly. There's no reason to expect any company to fix every problem virtually overnight. I expect in the short term, they're going to take hits. They may even get pummeled fiscally for this full generation. The Wii U is already worse hardware and lacks support in part because of that. If they can move enough games, great. They might be able to swing things around.
But here's the thing: I've seen a lot of PS3 comparisons and people were all "Well, everyone called the PS3 a failure and look what it did!" And that's sort of right. Look what it did. It took five years and drained the games division before it really started to work. It probably had the long-term goal of pushing BD over HDDVD, so it's certainly not a failure overall. But it turned things around at a heavy, heavy cost. It also put Sony's games division in what people are now calling do-or-die, make-or-break.
And part of why Sony can afford to get hammered like that is they have a lot of branches. Hell, at that time, most of them were still doing decent. Shift forward to now, and maybe they couldn't insulate a failure so well. Nintendo only really has two revenue streams (in a simplistic sense): games and merchandise. They can't afford to be losing money in their primary field, no matter what they're sitting on. At some point, they will feel the pressure to take some larger action. If the problem is their hardware is an obstacle, then ditching the hardware is logic.
But does that mean that's the path they take? I don't know. And I'm not Michael Pachter, so I'm not going to make wild guesses and call them predictions.
Most non-Nintendo games I've played have all been far more generally glitchy than recent Nintendo games I've played.Zachary Amaranth said:
For the software, not for the game. Nintendoland seems quite like a solid piece of software that holds absolutely NO interest for me.
I've heard that SimCity was particularly bad with game-breaking bugs (didn't play it myself; no money from me will they get), but most games in general I've played have had small bugs that broke the experience for me, even if not the game, except for Nintendo games. Game-breaking bugs aren't the only kind, and when talking overall software stability, Nintendo has generally been superior to everyone else, as aside from those few game-breaking bugs, I can't think of any bugs at all in recent Nintendo games I've played beyond a few instances of clipping.. Though, again, that's not a statement on the quality of the games themselves, which has been pretty lacking on Nintendo's part compared to other companies (though I hear Super Mario 3D World... or was it Land...? ... wow, Yahtzee was right, that IS confusing. SUPER MARIO CATS was pretty good). I'm just trying to clarify what he was trying to say.
...and I don't think "aside from Steam's marketplace" is much of an aside, since that encompasses over 2500 games from all generations(not counting add-ons, DLC, etc.), many of which are also found on both the 360 and PS3.
The last console I bought from Nintendo (excluding my DS, not a 3DS) was The Gamecube. I am only considering a Wii U because Bayonetta 2 is an exclusive, for some reason. None of the constant Mario/Zelda rehashes hold interest for me, I have never really liked those games to begin with. But that seems to be all the Wii U is offering in the way of games. So unless B2 is super-duper stellar, I fear I may be passing it over.
They need to be investing in new IPs and breaking new ground. If they keep trying to be Niche, they will go the way of Sega.
They need to be investing in new IPs and breaking new ground. If they keep trying to be Niche, they will go the way of Sega.
Because they want the 1-4 games you must buy from Nintendo available and tuned to hte audience andmedia of pc gaming or other consoles.WildFire15 said:
I am REALLY disappointed in Yatzhee here. I know he gets flack from Nintendo fans but this go like SEGA is beyond ridiculous. I respect his opinion on base of creative writing, game design, and vision. Go third party lacks of that its an attempt to better the consumer who's not invested in Nintendo...because they are invested into something else.
No, it wasn't. I loved the system at the time, but it got DESTROYED by the PS1. It was the start of the end of third parties really working with the big N. And that controller was built horribly (those thumbsticks were just make to break).Big_Willie_Styles said:
That's nice, doesn't make it more successful. It was wrecked by the PS2.Big_Willie_Styles said:
It won in that it sold an absolutely ridiculous amount of systems. But then no one bought games. The attachment rate of games to that system was HORRID. It was still a huge win for them, but kept going in the same direction of 3rd parties not making games (other than shovelware) and didn't bode well for what came next....which is what I "think" I said before. There's no way to say they did anything but win last gen. But they didn't set themselves up well for the long run.Big_Willie_Styles said:
Because of a history of the past 30 years of them effing over 3rd parties because, first they could, then they thought they could, then they could again, finally caught up to them?Big_Willie_Styles said:
Nintendo will not go third-party any time soon, if at all. Whether they should or not is another question. Right now, no, they probably should not. The WiiU is pretty much a failure at this point, and I personally don't believe that any games they have in the pipe is going to change that. Wouldn't care if I was proved wrong on that point though. Still, Nintendo needs to continue to support it as much as they can or they will totally eliminate any consumer confidence in their consoles.
I don't think anyone can honestly argue that their handheld division isn't doing wonderfully, though. It keeps getting exclusives (much to my dismay, as I would love some of their games to be ported to the Vita) and is pretty much printing money as quickly as the WiiU bleeds it.
I do not plan on picking up a WiiU this generation. I purchased a Wii and all it does is sit and collect dust. I feel like once my kids get older (a number of years from now as I have a 2 year old and a 2 month old) I'll break it out so they can play some Mario Kart, Brawl, NSMB and other titles. Meanwhile the only games that I really care to play on it are the Metroid Prime games. I might break it out now and then if I feel the urge to play Mario Kart or if a group of us wanted to play Mario Party, but Smash Bros. bored me quickly, as do fighting games in general, so that series just doesn't interest me anymore. I've also learned that the old school side scrolling platformers just don't really entertain me much anymore, which encompasses a lot of Nintendo's titles. I barely played NSMB, and I got Rayman Origins for free on my Vita and put it down after just one or two levels. I don't need a new system to play the same games again and again.
Stories are what get my attention for the most part when it comes to gaming now. Most of Nintendo's games just don't bother with a story short of "princess is kidnapped by bad guy, go rescue her". The Zelda games are better about this, and there is usually a charm to the characters in the games. Metroid Prime managed this as well with all the log entries, and the Paper Mario games are pretty good about it. Still I'm not going to buy a console for one or two games.
Nintendo needs to bring out new and interesting IP if they want to save the WiiU. They appear to be trying with games like X and Wonderful 101, though viewing gameplay of the latter really didn't impress me. Otherwise, they're just going to have to weather this storm and put some thought into their next console. They need to make sure it's easy for third-party developers to work with and they need to lose the gimmicks. No one cares about motion controls anymore, and the gamepad is apparently too hard to work with or something, since NO ONE is doing anything GOOD with it.
They also need to realize that the casual consumer who picked up a Wii is not going to bother getting a new console. They already have the Wii and the two or three games they wanted for it. They'll pull it out now and then to play golf or bowling or whatever, and then put it away until the next time. They don't need a new system in order get this same experience. They aren't looking for bigger and better things from their console. These are the people who didn't even care about gaming consoles until the saw how fun and accessible the Wii was. These people made up a majority of those who purchased a Wii. They are not going to be repeat customers, and Nintendo did not realize it.
Nintendo had it best when they were the only game in town. They've been steadily declining in popularity since the SNES as other systems came along offering more variety of games, some of which were willing to address mature themes that Nintendo rarely approached. As new gamers grow up with their parents gaming systems, less and less people are going to have a Nintendo platform as their first console. Nostalgia is not going to be the same for them as it is for gamers of my generation. They need to bring in new blood and that means less reliance on nostalgic titles. Somehow it seems they've figured that out for the handheld, as there are a slew of games on there that don't draw upon characters created in the NES days. Why the hell they can't do it for their console is beyond me.
I don't think anyone can honestly argue that their handheld division isn't doing wonderfully, though. It keeps getting exclusives (much to my dismay, as I would love some of their games to be ported to the Vita) and is pretty much printing money as quickly as the WiiU bleeds it.
I do not plan on picking up a WiiU this generation. I purchased a Wii and all it does is sit and collect dust. I feel like once my kids get older (a number of years from now as I have a 2 year old and a 2 month old) I'll break it out so they can play some Mario Kart, Brawl, NSMB and other titles. Meanwhile the only games that I really care to play on it are the Metroid Prime games. I might break it out now and then if I feel the urge to play Mario Kart or if a group of us wanted to play Mario Party, but Smash Bros. bored me quickly, as do fighting games in general, so that series just doesn't interest me anymore. I've also learned that the old school side scrolling platformers just don't really entertain me much anymore, which encompasses a lot of Nintendo's titles. I barely played NSMB, and I got Rayman Origins for free on my Vita and put it down after just one or two levels. I don't need a new system to play the same games again and again.
Stories are what get my attention for the most part when it comes to gaming now. Most of Nintendo's games just don't bother with a story short of "princess is kidnapped by bad guy, go rescue her". The Zelda games are better about this, and there is usually a charm to the characters in the games. Metroid Prime managed this as well with all the log entries, and the Paper Mario games are pretty good about it. Still I'm not going to buy a console for one or two games.
Nintendo needs to bring out new and interesting IP if they want to save the WiiU. They appear to be trying with games like X and Wonderful 101, though viewing gameplay of the latter really didn't impress me. Otherwise, they're just going to have to weather this storm and put some thought into their next console. They need to make sure it's easy for third-party developers to work with and they need to lose the gimmicks. No one cares about motion controls anymore, and the gamepad is apparently too hard to work with or something, since NO ONE is doing anything GOOD with it.
They also need to realize that the casual consumer who picked up a Wii is not going to bother getting a new console. They already have the Wii and the two or three games they wanted for it. They'll pull it out now and then to play golf or bowling or whatever, and then put it away until the next time. They don't need a new system in order get this same experience. They aren't looking for bigger and better things from their console. These are the people who didn't even care about gaming consoles until the saw how fun and accessible the Wii was. These people made up a majority of those who purchased a Wii. They are not going to be repeat customers, and Nintendo did not realize it.
Nintendo had it best when they were the only game in town. They've been steadily declining in popularity since the SNES as other systems came along offering more variety of games, some of which were willing to address mature themes that Nintendo rarely approached. As new gamers grow up with their parents gaming systems, less and less people are going to have a Nintendo platform as their first console. Nostalgia is not going to be the same for them as it is for gamers of my generation. They need to bring in new blood and that means less reliance on nostalgic titles. Somehow it seems they've figured that out for the handheld, as there are a slew of games on there that don't draw upon characters created in the NES days. Why the hell they can't do it for their console is beyond me.
How many of those games on the 360 and PS3 are actually broken? The point of excluding Steam's marketplace is solely the number of low-quality indie games, which would grossly skew things away from any fair estimation. Besides, shitty shovelware isn't a thing that's alien to Nintendo consoles, either.Riverwolf said:
Not many of them. But being "not broken" doesn't mean "not full of bugs." Red Dead Redemption is FULL of bugs, but it's hardly broken. Nintendo games I've played generally have far fewer bugs, if any bugs at all, than most other games from other companies.Zachary Amaranth said:
I WILL however, concede that I could be misremembering, as it's been a while since I've actually played a modern Nintendo game except Skyward Sword which I just recently finished.
Ah. Fair enough (though I remember browsing the XBLA marketplace at one time before Steam really started getting a slew of bad indie games and found all kinds of titles that looked like absolute garbage, or paid-for clones of free flash games.)
Certainly isn't. When I say "Nintendo games are generally good software" I'm generally referring to games I've played from Gamecube-on. Earlier Nintendo consoles had games that tended to be overall as glitchy, if not far more so, as modern games on other consoles (which I blame on the fact that those early games were limited in programming sophistication; games before the 16-bit era were always coded directly in Assembly, and it wasn't 'till the Genesis, as far as I'm aware, that consoles started allowing a modified form of C programming, and I don't think Nintendo started allowing C programming until the 64.)
As much as I love the Virtual Console (and other implementations of old-school ports to modern systems), there's a LOT of games they're bringing back that really should have been left in the past.
FIFY. ALso, I'm a PC Gamer only.LordTerminal said:
The same criticisms you level at Sony can also be levelled against the WiiU, as most Nintendo releases have been at best rehashes of previous titles with very few actual 'new' games like Wonderful 101 and what third party exclusives it did get were either failures or were released onto other platforms.
Now that's where third party sales come in, lets face it the Sony launch titles were bunk for the most part but people are banking on third party support. Combine that with the PS4's superior performance its becoming a good investment for future gaming, something which the WiiU isn't looking to be.