What I like about Dragon's Crown Artwork

[JazzJack2]

Yes it does. If I so choose, I can dislike a piece of art because it's distasteful.

Just because you choose to dislike a piece of art based on taste does not mean taste has any relevance to art, that is your own error.

Also, I didn't either claim that my opinion is somehow "higher" than anyone else's. OP was digging really deep for extra characterization, I thought he was being silly and told him so. That's all. Did I exert myself as a "better consumer" than him? Did I devalue his opinion in any way? Nope.

I don't remember claiming that you did claim that.

 

[mmmikey]

I think its a little naive of people to act like female characters, especially entirely imaginary ones, shouldn't be sexualized or have exaggerated features. They've been depicted that way for millennia. And the features have been changed as society's standards for beauty changes. In most western civilization it's about disproportionate measurements of the hips, waist, and breasts that the Sorceress is a prime example of. Other countries have their women force-fed to put on weight because a full figured woman is considered sexy.

I don't particularly like the design for the Sorceress, she looks like a cheap knockoff of Morrigan from the Darkstalkers series. And I'd like for more variety of bodytypes on both gender sides.

It is a game based on Fantasy archetypes so I'm not very surprised with what we're given in DC. You could swing this conversation to the Dwarf and talk about how it will give young impressional boys an impossible standard to attempt to get, abuse steroids, etc. Men just haven't been sexually objectified to the same degree as women but it's a debate you could still hold.

As to why Dragon's Crown gets the ire, I have to agree with others and say it's just the timing of the debate. You could probably pluck a stand in for the Sorceress from a game made any year in the past decade without having to look very far.

 

[lacktheknack]

Yes it does. If I so choose, I can dislike a piece of art because it's distasteful.

Just because you choose to dislike a piece of art based on taste does not mean taste has any relevance to art, that is your own error.

Uh... Did I claim that taste was relevant to art beyond a personal level? You just said it was straight up irrelevant, which is false.

Also, I didn't either claim that my opinion is somehow "higher" than anyone else's. OP was digging really deep for extra characterization, I thought he was being silly and told him so. That's all. Did I exert myself as a "better consumer" than him? Did I devalue his opinion in any way? Nope.

I don't remember claiming that you did claim that.

Then why the heck did you bother quoting me and tell me off for expressing my personal opinion?

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

I find the character design interesting in that it is highly stylised, but the way it's been drawn and coloured (the technique perhaps? I'm not really up on the nomenclature) looks really gorgeous IMO, one of the nicest looking games I've ever seen. If I owned a PS3 I'd definitely buy a copy.

 

[BlindTom]

I think what lacktheknack is saying is that it's ok to have bad taste and you should stop quoting them to tell them about their bad taste.

 

[JazzJack2]

Uh... Did I claim that taste was relevant to art beyond a personal level? You just said it was straight up irrelevant, which is false.

Taste in the sense you meant (I.E this is distasteful because it is offensive or disgusting) it is entirely irrelevant to art.
Consider the statements
This scientific theory lacks morality
This philosophic idea is unprovable
This religion has no aesthetic value

The statement "this work of art is distasteful" shares the same error as the other statements, it applies criteria to something for which it has no place. And to suggest this can be negated by claiming it is purely on a personal level is nonsense, because your supposed personal interpretation of what can be applied to what (to suggest morality can be applied to science or taste to art etc) is not really a personal interpretation but rather a personal misunderstanding

Also, I didn't either claim that my opinion is somehow "higher" than anyone else's. OP was digging really deep for extra characterization, I thought he was being silly and told him so. That's all. Did I exert myself as a "better consumer" than him? Did I devalue his opinion in any way? Nope.

I don't remember claiming that you did claim that.

Then why the heck did you bother quoting me and tell me off for expressing my personal opinion?[/quote]

I did no such thing, I simply said the first impressions of someone regarding a work of art are of no intellectual value, and yet there are people who try to argue they have as much weight as what meaning the artist applies to his own work.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

The thing that most impressed me were the omnipresent references to specific works of art, mostly medieval European, but with some classic fantasy and pop art stuff thrown in. It really pisses me off that all the professional reviews spend so much time talking about a few elements of the art style (in a way that reveals they no as little about actual gender studies and feminist criticism as they do about art history) without even mentioning it.

I also liked that Kamitani went for a more comically exaggerated style than he's used in previous games. You might see some crazy supporting characters in Odin Sphere or Muramasa, but the protagonists and most of the main cast kept to much more typical proportions. It really raises a question for me as to whether the DC designs were intended to be viewed as 'attractive,' as most people seem to assume, and not 'comical.'

 

[lacktheknack]

Uh... Did I claim that taste was relevant to art beyond a personal level? You just said it was straight up irrelevant, which is false.

Taste in the sense you meant (I.E this is distasteful because it is offensive or disgusting) it is entirely irrelevant to art.
Consider the statements
This scientific theory lacks morality
This philosophic idea is unprovable
This religion has no aesthetic value

The statement "this work of art is distasteful" shares the same error as the other statements, it applies criteria to something for which it has no place. And to suggest this can be negated by claiming it is purely on a personal level is nonsense, because your supposed personal interpretation of what can be applied to what (to suggest morality can be applied to science or taste to art etc) is not really a personal interpretation but rather a personal misunderstanding

Bullcrap on toast.

I mentioned the "Piss Christ" earlier, which was a crucifix immersed in urine. It was offensive and disgusting.

The Hostel films revel in their offensiveness, disgusting content and shock value.

A Serbian Film is a satire that's utterly drowned by the most horrible, awful, and grotesque stuff you can imagine happening.

Moreover, those examples are DEFINED by how tasteless they are. When you ask Eli Roth why he made Hostel, he'll say "because I like shocking violence".

I have literally no idea how it ever occurred to you that "This art is tasteless" can be an invalid statement. It literally makes no sense to think that. How is "Shock Art" a thing if that's the case?

 

[lacktheknack]

I think what lacktheknack is saying is that it's ok to have bad taste and you should stop quoting them to tell them about their bad taste.

I can't tell if this is a well-meaning but incorrect assumption, or a very well-pulled backhanded insult.

Either way, heh. I chuckled.

 

[FrankatronX]

People comparing this game to Frank Frazzetta do realize that this game looks nothing like Frank Frazzetta right? It looks like Castlevania game with the cover art where the head looks like the last scene of Beetle Juice with the headshrinker.

For the record. Frank Frazzetta was an anatomist. This game is the opposite of that.

My god you're entirely right. lol. my bad.

 

[JazzJack2]

snip

And so why do you think shock art is considered so low? ('shock value' is often used as a derogatory term in itself) because it fails to find value as art and instead it attempts to be judged by society (art should never be at the heel of society) it is as worthless as a scientific theory that disregards science and would appeal to its value as philosophy or religion. Of course lots of art will use imagery that is considered distasteful, but the value of its art is not found in distaste it self but rather in a particular aesthetic (that may happen to be distasteful). For example a work by Francis bacon (like his study of Velazquez' pope) may be considered distasteful in its imagery but its value is not in the distaste or shock but rather the emotion that comes about from the imagery, the actual distaste ones suffers is of no importance when considering it as art.

 

[FrankatronX]

Okay

lacktheknack and JazzJack2 I admire how fervently you debate but I will ask you both to stay cool. I don't want this debate getting too heated.

I want to state that this is a good or ill thread and I welcome both sides of the debate.
I see that this has many people who both like and dislike the artstyle. I believe it is up to each of us to see if we want to look for meaning in this art and find context for it.

http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/07/19/check-out-dragons-crowns-stunning-new-hd-screenshots/

Here is a link to some screenshots. I ask you to take time and observe all these images (not just the rude ones) and ask yourself what you really think.

 

[Dragonbums]

I mean, to be fair, the only issue I have with Dragons' Crown art is the questionable anatomy.

Other then that? Man that art is to die for, and everything in game is beautiful and fluid.

 

[Lunar Templar]

nope, not studied them at all.

that said, I adore the style used, say what ever you want about the design choice but the game it self is fucking beautiful.

and I'm gonna say, it looks millions of times better then any game with 100X the budget for graphics.

 

[Abomination]

I mean, to be fair, the only issue I have with Dragons' Crown art is the questionable anatomy.

Other then that? Man that art is to die for, and everything in game is beautiful and fluid.

I really like the artstyle, it's unique and reminds me of the old Terry Pratchett's Discworld novel covers.

Yeah the proportions are way off and some of the anatomy doesn't make sense but it hasn't been worth even a fraction of the hubbabaloo that has been raised over it. Don't like the art style? Don't buy it.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

I haven't studied the art at all. I do like the art on face value.
Kinda interested in Sorceress' Necromancy.

I'm not interested in defending the art as opinions on it are just that. Changing said opinions will likely be difficult if at all possible.

 

[MrHide-Patten]

I like the fact that it's different in a market overgrown with shallow copies of one another. It's doing something to stand out from the crowd and whilst it puts a vocal minority off, most people haven't got a problem with it. I know lots of people love the yahoo out of Skyrim's aesthetics, but I almost quit the game out of visual boredom.

I can just imagine if 'Who Framed Roger Rabbit' was released today, people would burst a artery. Girls got massive boobs/thighs but we don't bat on eye at some dudes head exploding.

If a guy dumps a girl because she doesn't look like the sorceress then he shouldn't have been breeding anyway, and if a girl tries to make herself look like a fictional drawing then she deserves everything that's coming to her. I look forward to 'Channing Tatum: the Game' so that I as heterosexual white male will finally have a game to which I can lob all my insecurities at, make it happen ladies.

 

[Dragonbums]

I mean, to be fair, the only issue I have with Dragons' Crown art is the questionable anatomy.

Other then that? Man that art is to die for, and everything in game is beautiful and fluid.

I really like the artstyle, it's unique and reminds me of the old Terry Pratchett's Discworld novel covers.

Yeah the proportions are way off and some of the anatomy doesn't make sense but it hasn't been worth even a fraction of the hubbabaloo that has been raised over it. Don't like the art style? Don't buy it.

I mean...art style does play a heavy role in whether someone is going to buy something or not. Like someone said above first impressions are everything. The only thing we really have to go by on a game is the art and the gameplay. If all the display art for Dragon's crown looks like something straight out of an anime wet dream fantasy then don't be surprised when a good chunk of people don't buy the game.

Now am I going to say not to buy the game because of the titty monster that is the sorceress? No. That's stupid and makes me sound like I have a stick up my ass.
However if many people are turned off by the general presentation, then perhaps you may want to investigate why.

 

[Erttheking]

Ok, there are a couple of things I want to get off of my chest with regards to this art.

1. I don't think it's misogynistic, I think it's just stupid, and not just the sorceress, all of the characters look really stupid. The Elf and the Sorcerer are the lone exception.

2. I will criticize it as much as I please, please refrain from calling me a White Knight, I am keeping my criticism civil, there is no need to be rude.

3. I am not saying that no one should buy this game, if you like it, that's fine, I still think the art is stupid and even if it itself is more of a parody of the sexualization in the industry, I still think it looks stupid and I like to use it to talk about issues in the industry at large.

4. Something I kind of notice is that just about every game I like gets the living Hell criticized out of it on this website by a quite a few people at the very least, Halo, Dark Souls, Bioshock Infinite, Metro Last Light, the Walking Dead and Mass Effect. Those games don't get anyone saying that they shouldn't be criticized, heck, I've seen those games get criticized for less than ideal treatment of women, and I was ok with it, mainly because they were educated and in some cases true (Metro Last Light really didn't have the best feminist atmosphere) Anyway, the point is I don't see why this game should get any special attention. It should be as open to criticism as every other game on this website.

 

[Sacman]

Yeah, I don't know if you've noticed but none of the criticisms have to do with the artists technical skill or even the individual pieces composition, but that the character designs are simultaneous ugly as sin, ludicrously proportioned, in ways that are hard to justify, and it's potentially sexist... though I don;t exactly prescribe to the last idea, I just think the designs are ugly, and reflect poorly on how the artist distinguishes gender identifiers... Though I can;t even look at the barbarian, it looks like she's part Geodude, and is sexualized in disturbing ways...<.<

Though I really like the Rogue design...