What if the player character in a game was the villain?

[Phishfood]

Gonna throw in there -

Kane and Lynch - not only is the player character a bad guy the entire game is awful!
Evil Genius - bring a book.
Payday - pretty good. Needs more maps though.

Grand theft auto/Saints row - running over hordes of police men/women and old ladies and everyone ever seems bad.

 

[Gamergeek25]

Amnesia The dark descent

 

[putowtin]

most RPG's give the option to go evil, but your character always starts netural

Evil Genius is the only game I can think of where you start evil and stay there!

 

[Lawnmooer]

Hmm... I think that if I remember correctly Disgaea: Hour of Darkness has you as the villain (Well everyone in that game is a villain...)

You start the game going around robbing people for money, then set out on killing as many people as possible (To lower the number of assassination attempts that will occur on the Overlord) then you get some "slaves" and then kill your way through all the people trying to kill your slaves... Then my memory gets a bit fuzzy... I remember having to kill a lot of angels towards the end of the game though, I can't remember the motives behind it.

Thats about all I can think of as being the villain in a game goes...

The problem is that if a game has you playing a villain (And promotes it to sell their game) it will get a lot of people being against it (See: The reaction to that one mission in MW2 in the airport)

On a sidenote I think the you played as a villain in Manhunt? I don't really remember the story for that game, I just remember murdering gang members...

 

[Nebraskaslim]

I know its old and it doesn't exactly fit but no one has mentioned Tie Fighter yet. I mean come on your flying missions for the empire how can you be any more villan than that?

 

[Andrux51]

There are a good few but almost all of them make the said villain too cartoony to really feel "evil" in a pure sense.

I think syndicate did it best, there you really feel like corporate monster who destroys the beautiful thing, not because you find it fun, but because of money and power. Like real evil people.

I really agree with the first point. In games like Dungeon Keeper or (probably) Evil Genius, the "villain" you play is just aesthetically swapped with the relevant "hero" in, say, a tower defense game (I know they are not tower defense games, but it's the closest to a quick explanation I can get) - it's just a reverse of the classic formula: the guys who look like bad guys are the good guys, and the guys who look like good guys are the bad guys. Even the story admits this with things like "enemy do-gooders are coming to step on your sandcastle" - you could even go so far as to say that they're not villains at all, they just come from traditional villain-style stereotypes. Certainly the mindset isn't villainous if you swapped the graphics, put the hero in their shoes and asked if he would do the same thing.

Can you talk more about Syndicate? The concept is very interesting after a quick internet search about it, but the game looks like it would be really hard to sit through at its technological level.

Yeah, evil for its own sake is usually boring, but it's not all that common in fiction. Instead, most villains either believe they are doing good, or simply don't care whether they're doing good or not. It's entirely possible to have an interesting character who knows he or she is doing evil things for an evil purpose but doesn't care because of the potential rewards. We could easily have a character like that. The problem is not making them interesting but making them sympathetic.

This! You've really hit the nail on the head here. How would you go about making the character interesting and sympathetic without making them play out like a "badass with a heart of gold" anti-hero type? Is it possible to make a deep game from the viewpoint of, say, the Joker from Dark Knight, as more than just entertainment like beating up hookers in GTA?

 

[akkronym]

While I'm seeing a lot of moral choice RPGs mentioned and the occasional niche title that was received with a general consensus oh "meh" from the gaming community, those examples sort of under cut what I think is being asked.

And that is, can you create a compelling narrative from the perspective of a villain - not someone that is doing bad things or has the capacity to make their karma lean towards evil, but someone whose story actively forces the player to commit villainous acts, and honestly; I'm gonna say no.

Sure you can have a game the stile of Overlord that tells you "You're the bad guy! Go nuts!" but ends up a little superficial on the story and narrative side, but generally speaking, audiences only feel for their character if they can buy into his or her motivations and while greed and power are completely legitimate motivations for a bad guy, it's much harder to make a person actively relate to a person whose sole motivation is such. If you were creating a game where the PC was a villain, you wouldn't be able to portray him as the villain without making the game a parody to an extent.

 

[ConstantErasing]

I usually like the villains more than the main character, so this kind of game sounds pretty good to me. What I would like is a game where you play as a villain like Kefka, not someone who starts out questionable and turns evil but someone who is all evil all the time. Might be a tad simple but it could be pretty fun.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Disregarding games with moral choice systems, 'cause most of those still cast the PC in the role of hero or at the slightly less of a douchbag. However there are still several games that I know that cast the Player in the role of the villain, many of which have already been mentioned (but I'm going to mention them again anyway), the ones the come first to mind are:
- Evil Genius, it has "evil" in the title, go figure.
- Overlord Series, yeah it kinda has a moral choice system but but really your options for moral choices are evil douche or slightly less of an evil douche. Either way, you're still an evil douche.
- Dungeon Keeper
- Goldeneye: Rouge Agent, at least that's what the box blurb implied anyway, never played it.

...and that's all I can think of.

 

[Faladorian]

"What if the player character in the game WAS the villain?"

Why hello there Revan.

This. Play KOTOR. It's on the list of games you just plain should play anyway because theyre extremely good.

 

[emeraldrafael]

They'd still be the hero of their own story, unless you're played to be evil and everyone wants you to know. But even then, its subjective.

I mean, you may see some very questionable objectives like, shoot an RPG into a bus of autistic paralyzed blind deaf dumb children with cancer and aids then T-bag each corpse, but in the views of the character being played, thats doing what they think is right.

 

[Thaliur]

....

almost ANY RPG that gives you a moral choice

Falout games
Infamous
Dragon age/ mass effect (here its debatle able...you are a massive prick at least)
Overlord
Sants row

hell LOTS of games..if your not a villan then your often morally questionable or at least a prick

You forgot Dungeon Keeper. That one definitely makes you the villain, and awesomely so.
In case of Overlord, I'm not sure. Certainly you are playing a character basically embodying Evil, but even if you choose to enslave the people and everything, I could imagine the "heroes" who ruled before were even worse superiors.

Also, does Braid count?

 

[ExileNZ]

"What if the player character in the game WAS the villain?"

Why hello there Revan.

THIS

I was actually going to say Legacy of Kain, though really only in Blood Omen 1&2. In Soul Reaver he's the bad guy and in Defiance he's somewhere between anti-hero and outright hero.

At least in the Blood Omens his sole motivation is vengeance, while any world-saving is kind of a happy bonus. He literally murders everyone who gets in his way, friend or foe.

Also worth remembering: Blood Omen's evil ending is the canon one.

 

[Hugga_Bear]

Numerous flash games do this, Mastermind: World Conqueror and the Cursed Treasure series come to mind but there are others whose names I don't remember, one where you are bypassing towers in a TD game, several where you're some flavour of undead 'hero' (villain) type being a badass and killing everything...it's quite common in flash games.

 

[Jabberwock xeno]

I think OP means games where you ARE the villian, not where you can choose to be a hero, villian, or whatever.

There are very few games like that.

The closest I can think of is Overlord. A shame overlord 2 wasn't as good as 1.

 

[Lunar Templar]

God of War and [Prototype] would like to have a word with you.

These are all anti-heroes, not villains. Villains are the guys that are evil and don't give two fucks either way. Anti-heroes are doing what they do for a good cause, but in the wrong way.

>.>
Kratos pretty much breaks the world in his temper tantrum (read: unjustified revenge quest)

and

Alex Mercer caused the deaths of thousands by releasing that virus, including him self (spoilers btw), and then goes about slaughtering MORE people on his 'quest for revenge' -.-

eeyup, they sure have a leg to stand on as anti heroes

 

[Littaly]

You mean like that one game with the twist? The one with the name that I can't say because that would be spoiling? ^^

Seriously though, is a "villain" defined by the way the story is presented or by the goals and ethics of the character in question? Is a "villain" a role in a story or is it a good/evil sort of thing? Because if it's the former then it can be really hard to make a game where you play as the villain since the villain is defined somebody the main character is up against. I mean, there are plenty of games where you play as evil people, but you could still argue that you play the hero in all of them. At least I think so...

 

[Thaliur]

I know its old and it doesn't exactly fit but no one has mentioned Tie Fighter yet. I mean come on your flying missions for the empire how can you be any more villan than that?

In TIE Fighter, you just play a loyal imperial soldier, while there is a rebellion going on. You, as the Pilot, are genuinely convinced that you are NOT the villain. Basically, you are a policeman keeping looters, thieves and terrorists in check. In this kind of situation the roles of villain and hero are only decided by who wins the war. Imagine the Star Wars movies from the Empire's point of view.
More and more people are rioting, goods are stolen, outposts are ransacked and destroyed, and the emperor and his loyal army are trying their best to keep order and protect the citizens.

 

[Lunar Templar]

oh!! though of one

Breath of Fire 4 has you (some of the time anyway) playing as the First Emperor Fu-Luo

though i didn't really getta 'him as a badguy' vibe till AFTER 12+ hours in

 

[Andrux51]

You mean like that one game with the twist? The one with the name that I can't say because that would be spoiling? ^^

Seriously though, is a "villain" defined by the way the story is presented or by the goals and ethics of the character in question? Is a "villain" a role in a story or is it a good/evil sort of thing? Because if it's the former then it can be really hard to make a game where you play as the villain since the villain is defined somebody the main character is up against. I mean, there are plenty of games where you play as evil people, but you could still argue that you play the hero in all of them. At least I think so...

I think this is taking it too far to an extreme, and I've been trying to avoid this point myself...obviously the player has to control some character in the game, or it's not much of a game. My point above that the player character in Dungeon Keeper isn't really a "villain", is because his point of view is perfectly heroic if the game insists that the "heroes" are evil for coming to ruin your dungeon. The human knights and such have become the villains of the story by knocking down your door in a quest to kill you, unprovoked.

It's interesting seeing how so many people keep coming back to the same examples without providing any insight as to why it works that way.

"What if the player character in the game WAS the villain?"

Why hello there Revan.

Spoiler

From Wookieepedia: "Recognized as a talented military tactician and strategist, and the Jedi Order's most powerful champion, Revan directed the Galactic Republic to victory after assuming command of its forces in 3,961 BBY, finally ending the conflict the following year with the defeat and execution of Mandalore the Ultimate, the destruction of Malachor V and the disarmament of the Mandalorian Neo-Crusaders?acts which earned him a reputation among the Mandalorians as Revan the Butcher."

Revan was acting on ideals that he thought to be right when the Jedi council wouldn't act, and championed his side (the "good side"/Republic) to victory in a war against an enemy that committed genocide of innocents. It's hard to consider that villainy. Afterwards, he embraces the dark side of the force and becomes Sith. He wasn't always a villain, and the player certainly doesn't play him as such through most of the game.

Here's some food for thought: in the God of War series, Kratos is pretty much a bad guy by the time GoW 3 rolls around. That's a good example of playing as the bad guy, however, it's still worth noting that he wasn't always bad. Maybe that's what makes a good villain, the fact that once upon a time his actions were more gray on the moral scale, but now he's passed the point of no return (TVtropes calls it Moral Event Horizon) where he has no redeemable qualities left. Is it possible to develop a character to that point before the start of a first game?