What is communism?
- Thread starter Patshiv
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Communism is the most extreme version of socialism. A total equality, no matter what you do. No social classes, no hierarchy, no money. A responsibility for the society lies with each and everyone equally. Everybody does what he or she can do to better the society and gets what he or she needs.
I view communism as something which Jacque Fresco envisioned in his "Venus Project". The communism that had been seen in the past century to up until now is fake. It's nothing more than a tyranny and a so-called "party aristocracy".
I view communism as something which Jacque Fresco envisioned in his "Venus Project". The communism that had been seen in the past century to up until now is fake. It's nothing more than a tyranny and a so-called "party aristocracy".
In my humble yet omnipotent opinion, Communism and Capitalism are slinging mud at each other from opposite ends of the spectrum while suffering the same fatal flaw. That is that they don't distinguish wants from needs. In Capitalism you compete for everything and huge groups of people are left behind, while in Communism everything is shared no matter how hard you work. I think a true Utopian society would let a person compete for things they want, while what's needed is shared by all.
So... same shit, different beard.
Zounds, I broke my monocle.
So... same shit, different beard.
Zounds, I broke my monocle.
No. It won't work because people are too selfish to allow it to work. I'm not saying we are the embodiment of greed. But people like owning things. People like being able to say, "That's my big plasma screen tv," "that's my iphone 4," "that's my porn stash." People don't like having to share everything, and I agree. Why should I have to allow other people use of my living space, entertainment things, food, etc? I hate other people and if they want my shit, they can piss off because I worked hard for this stuff and I don't like sharing.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
I don't think replicators work like that. You still need real food to put into those replicator machines that just take the ingredients and make them into whatever you want instantly. At least, that's how I always thought they worked. I could be wrong. But who knows how advanced the farming technology is in Star Trek universe. In the end, it's always about technology. Technology leads to progress. Yes, it also leads to destruction because we are still stupid and would rather make guns than farming and medical technology. But we had ways to destroy ourselves even without technology. In a way, we owe our greatest achievements and failures to technology.Hagenzz said:
I don't remember, it was a long time ago. But every episode is great. If you want to watch the show watch it from the beginning. There are communist ideas in TNG everywhere. Those were just the most obvious.TLS14 said:
You see the thing is that you just kinda described socialism (as defined by Marx). You have socialism where the state manages the people until a time when no state is needed; and when no state is needed it shall dissovle and a communist(comes from communal) society will replace it. The idead of a communist state isn't grasped by most as it would require a natural progression and not a sudden change. People of capitalist society wouldn't be able to function in communist one.thaluikhain said:
BTW: Soviet Union wasn't communist. Under Lenin it was working towards the socialist stage (but they missed the capitalist stage which you're meant to go through first) and under Stalin it wasn't much different from a fascist state.
Marx didn't think that personal freedom would be oppressed either. In fact the idead that everyone would be forced to be the same is another falsehood. In fact what was meant is that everyone would have the same choice; ergo Steve likes books and not footbal and Bob the opposite, thus Steve would be given an allocation of books he liked and not football goods and vice versa. Its more about people being within a reasonable level of similar wealth; while not being tied donw to having to do the same job all the time if they don't enjoy it.
However the main critcism is that Marx is quite vague about how life would be like in this communist society (call a far fetch utopian ideal if you want).
coolkirb said:
You do know that Orwell was a socialist who agreed with much of the writings of Marx. The books a satire of the October Revolution and the rise of the Stalin that followed Lenin death.AperioContra said:
Also 1984 is critcal of socialist concepts but more the people who claim to be socialist parties and the way the left is corrupted with things such nationalism.
Do understand that this urge to consume is a quite modern occurence. Only is recent years have enough people (the rise of the middle class) had spare money to spend on non-essential goods. Look at many small tribes that have little contact with the "modern" world; many live is a somewhat communistic manner and little concern for consumerism.AperioContra said:
And for those that read to the bottom
Communsim is what we should aspire to, but Capitalism is what we deserve.
Bottom line is that people should read up on Marx and Engels before commenting on the matter as it is they who invented the term. The root of communist thought is Marxism(guess where it got its name from).
At least read up on Engles; everyone forgets about Engels.
oh and I do forgive me for any mistakes (such as grammar or spelling) in this text as I am ever so tired.
Last but not least I'm from England.
communism could work but you would have to get everyone in the same mindset of everything I do I do for everyone else which I don't think can happen. I also don't like the idea of communism and personally think socialism is the best form of government.
Political view in which all classes and states are abolished and everybody owns everything equally.
What Americans think it means is Socialism in which everything is owned by the state, and everybody works for the state.
In practice, it allowed corruption to seep in easily, because the country was run by an elite, who controlled a secret police with near absolute power, under the guise of protection (I'm looking at you Homeland Security Act). Any dissidents were arrested, borders were closed, complaining was considered treason, and all papers were owned by the state.
What Americans think it means is Socialism in which everything is owned by the state, and everybody works for the state.
In practice, it allowed corruption to seep in easily, because the country was run by an elite, who controlled a secret police with near absolute power, under the guise of protection (I'm looking at you Homeland Security Act). Any dissidents were arrested, borders were closed, complaining was considered treason, and all papers were owned by the state.
An American conservative here...
So my belief is that communism is a terrible form of government because people get caught up in the transitional stages of power. the point where the goverment controls everything is the point of no return, once you get past there then it is smooth sailing. The problem is getting a populus that will agree to this transition of power and with goverement controlling basically everything. then getting the goverment to reliquish that hold. Most communistic societies either fall apart like russia, maintain the oligarchial way of making decisions, or just because straight dictators
It just does not work you would need a small group of people, like 20 rather than the millions in Cuba, Russia, China and Venezuela?(not sure if thats socialism or if they made the jump to communism).
I lived in psedo communistic society for a month and it worked real well. Everyone got something that they liked. Everyone was happy, there was still a leader because lets face it you don't trust 18 year olds that far but everyone still had an equal say in matters. And it worked really well.
So my belief is that communism is a terrible form of government because people get caught up in the transitional stages of power. the point where the goverment controls everything is the point of no return, once you get past there then it is smooth sailing. The problem is getting a populus that will agree to this transition of power and with goverement controlling basically everything. then getting the goverment to reliquish that hold. Most communistic societies either fall apart like russia, maintain the oligarchial way of making decisions, or just because straight dictators
It just does not work you would need a small group of people, like 20 rather than the millions in Cuba, Russia, China and Venezuela?(not sure if thats socialism or if they made the jump to communism).
I lived in psedo communistic society for a month and it worked real well. Everyone got something that they liked. Everyone was happy, there was still a leader because lets face it you don't trust 18 year olds that far but everyone still had an equal say in matters. And it worked really well.
Agreed. I am replying from the former Communist Republic of Romania, and if the cold war hadn't destroyed the Soviet Union's economy we'd still be beating our chests, proclaiming our superiority, and calling you Imperialist pigs. That's how people work. Your parents instilled your country's values upon you and you believe them with all your heart no matter who was right or wrong.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:I already expanded on that statement in a later post, but just a quick recap although I would encourage you to look up the other post: you place your material ownership over fellow human beings because you have been raised that way. You and I have been, from the start, grown to become consumers first and anything else second. Imagine this: you were born into a socialist/communist country and family. Your parents, from the age you could listen, stressed the importance of working hard not for personal gain, but for the gain of the collective, stressed that one day when you took started at your first job, you should do so for your fellow man and not for yourself. Would you still think your porn stash and TV is more important than the well being of your country? You would not. If you want to deny this, there are countless experts on the subject that are ready to disagree with you, and im not going to waste my time trying to persuade you further. The problem, of course, arises when there is a capitalist state next door, slowly oozing in its consumerist culture. The grass looks greener on the other side, I guess.SilverUchiha said:No. It won't work because people are too selfish to allow it to work. I'm not saying we are the embodiment of greed. But people like owning things. People like being able to say, "That's my big plasma screen tv," "that's my iphone 4," "that's my porn stash." People don't like having to share everything, and I agree. Why should I have to allow other people use of my living space, entertainment things, food, etc? I hate other people and if they want my shit, they can piss off because I worked hard for this stuff and I don't like sharing.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Of course, one could call this whole thing a form of brainwashing, but I dont think communist propaganda is much worse than the propaganda we have in western, "free countries". The exact same thing is done, maybe even more extreme, but different values are taught.
My family does not place much value on material things and that rubbed off on me. If you had been raised in my family, it would probably be the same. Communism has its own propaganda and its own way of keeping people true to its ways, especially people that grew up in those systems.
Im not saying that your parents didnt do their job, or that your a close minded selfish idiot, or anything of the sort; I have already stated I am not a communist and what I think of other people putting so much value in objects... Well, its neither here nor there. I hope you are getting the point im making, and I hope you dont resort to "HERP U IS INSULTING ME CAPATALIZM IZ GR8 BCUZ IT IS" if you reply to me again.
And im going to have to say it, please stop using that "It wouldnt work because human nature" argument. Its been dis proven so many times, there are so many valid arguments against it, its not even mildly amusing anymore. There are good arguments against communism but I think if hear that one again I am literally going to be sick.
From sweden, but i've spent my life travelling.
My view on Communism: Utopian Theory, but has yet to work in practice.
Also, even in theory, Communism seems to forget about giving people a proper incentive to work,or simply expect "national pride" to be enough of an incentive for a surgeon to spend eight years in medical school, only to earn about as much as the hospital janitor.
My view on Communism: Utopian Theory, but has yet to work in practice.
Also, even in theory, Communism seems to forget about giving people a proper incentive to work,or simply expect "national pride" to be enough of an incentive for a surgeon to spend eight years in medical school, only to earn about as much as the hospital janitor.
A pretty accurate summation of communism right there. However, it does not even sound good on paper. I am viscerally against the idea "everyone is created equal," that is not to say I oppose the kinder treatment of others, I just think it's a big lie. Obligatory Nietzsche, since he happened to hate communism and Marx (and Engels): "For, my brothers, the best should rule, the best also want to rule. And where the doctrine is different, there the best is lacking (Thus Spoke Zarathustra)."JoesshittyOs said:
communism is a dialectical materialist philosophy,
dialectical in that change is constantly occurring, contrasted with simple causality(massive oversimplification).
materialist in the sense the physical world shaped our ideas and beliefs, not the other way around.
It depends on the process of scientific socialism, you don?t sit down and start writing about how great it would be if x and y, you observe and criticize(hopefully constructively) the existing system
most of Marx?s work is not on writing about how great communism would be, but criticism of the capitalist mode of production(12 year olds in toxic match factories, 18 hour working days,hoards of money, imperialist wars, economic crises, alienation etc.) in the north of UK here
dialectical in that change is constantly occurring, contrasted with simple causality(massive oversimplification).
materialist in the sense the physical world shaped our ideas and beliefs, not the other way around.
It depends on the process of scientific socialism, you don?t sit down and start writing about how great it would be if x and y, you observe and criticize(hopefully constructively) the existing system
most of Marx?s work is not on writing about how great communism would be, but criticism of the capitalist mode of production(12 year olds in toxic match factories, 18 hour working days,hoards of money, imperialist wars, economic crises, alienation etc.) in the north of UK here
One word:Cuba.DanielDeFig said:
They have a really good medical system (and due to the US blockcade they're stuck in the 50s) and yet everyone more or less earns around the same wage. Heck I think the US trade embargo is almost a good thing as it has prevented consumer goods taking a hold and spreading consumerism.
National pride is not what its about; its more about wanting to do the best thing for your community(went more in depth in an earlier post). Communism is more less based around the idea that humans have the potential to be selfless social beings who look at for each other. There are even a few examples of other social animals adopting similar structures; such as a species of Meerkats.
Hang on a second, are you using The Escapist as a sampling frame for the case selection for your research assigment?Patshiv said:
Communism at it's heart makes everyone equal. It doesn't mean that doctors and binmen (garbagemen) get paid the same and that we all have to be robotic worker drones for the leader that is fascism and quite often fascism uses communism as a cover because the doctrine helps keep the proles in their place and turns them into fiercely loyal servants rather than angry backstabbers waiting for the chance.
Communism dictates that every person regardless of gender, age, sexual preference, ethnicity, religion or profession has equal rights. Rights not pay! It means that people who are struggling money wise will get the help they need. It also means that everyone is fed, sheltered, entertained and gets a vote.
Communism dictates that every person regardless of gender, age, sexual preference, ethnicity, religion or profession has equal rights. Rights not pay! It means that people who are struggling money wise will get the help they need. It also means that everyone is fed, sheltered, entertained and gets a vote.