What is communism?

[LordLundar]

To start off with, Communism isn't a political system, it's an economic one. The polar opposite of Communism is Capitalism. Socialism is the political equivalent to communism, but no country in the world has ever come close to the purest definition of it, as it centers around the public working for the country, as opposed to the opposite. (and no, the Soviet Union was not a Socialist country, neither is China. Both are dictatorships)

That said, What communism means is an equal distribution of wealth and resources amongst all the population, regardless of social or political standing. At it's purest form, it would work perfectly, as everyone would contribute equally and receive equally. In practice however it fails, because such a system requires that the entirety of the public is willing to retain their personal status and not try for their own purpose. Considering that it's unlikely even in a small scale, it renders communism inherently flawed.

The purest definition of Capitalism would fail in much the same way, as it's goals are personal success at the expense of all others. Left unchecked, you would find a situation akin to what you see in Highlander. (aka there can be only one) Why capitalism succeeds more than communism is because capitalism focuses more on the selfish nature of mankind while communism relies on working together.

 

[mrhateful]

I see you're point but what I meant is if you're collecting taxes from everyone and distributing the country's collective wealth accordingly then those who have no money are a priority.

This is equivalent to what I said, it doesn't matter if its a government or all people in a giant group no matter what, it boils down to "people earning money" loosing their right to keep them, and "people not earning money" gains a right to take them.

Sure I was ambiguous about where the funding would come from but only because I thought that TAXES would have been obvious. Isn't it a bit weird that Capitalists will tell you how communism will bleed you dry? Considering how the top Capitalists don't pay taxes and seem to be controlling the companies that take your money on a regular basis it's safe to say that you might be being misinformed.

Two things: First of big companies manipulation governments are not a capitalist system and is to the benefit of none except the companies and the politicians. For instance: for smaller businesses and up starts one of the biggest cost is servicing government regulation, for a big company servicing regulations is not that big a cost to them, so by advocating more regulations they can ensure competition is removed.

Secondly
Companies cannot take your money, they can only try to convince you to buy their products. The idea is behind freedom is that you are free to make choices of our own and you can thus choose whether or not you want to buy a product.

Are there better ideas out there than communism? Well yeah because it's really hard to implement a communist government. Why's it hard...humans are corruptible; but there are still communists or to give them the name they use today out of fear of being hated Liberals, and they'll always keep fighting for you're rights no matter how many times they're screwed over by someone who wants are bigger paycheck.

I Keep hearing this arguments that the problem with communism is that humans are greedy and if they would just stop being that then all would be better. Basically it doesn't work that way, all choses humans make are swayed by two factors greed and fear.

For instance if you see a girl you like your greed motivates you to get her, but your fear stops you from looking like a fool. So if you removed greed then no one would get any girls and then the race would become extinct.

Also I also keep hearing people say that the 2008 financial crisis was caused by greed running ramped. This statement is false as it was, all fear being removed by the FED(an arm of the government) lowering interest rates to the lowest they've been in the last 80 years, ensuring everyone could take out huge loans.

 

[Biodeamon]

communism was a good idea mucked up by bad people.

In it's basic form it was a way of treating everybody equally but people, being people, always want more. and so they completely dirtied the name of socialist from a equality gouverment to a dream crushing dictatorship. The terrible leaders of most of the communist parties of the world didn't help improve their pub;ic relations either.

in short, a gouverment that only wqorks if everybody will work entirely together. and i hate to a downer but, humans aren't the best team players.

 

[pppppppppppppppppp]

Its a system that will never work because most people are to stupid to see that it could work.

Rather ironic.

Would you care to explain this? As of my understanding the monopolization of power by the vanguard party always results in an autocracy as the absence of an economic incentive to perform well leads to shortages which the government is unable to respond to by other means than violence and terror.

AHHHH! MAN USE BIG WORDS! HURT BRAIN!

OT: The government controls the economy and distributes profits as they see fit. It's meant to get rid of the hierarchical system of economy where the rich rule and the poor suffer, but all it does is transfer that same corrupting power to government officials.

This sums it up pretty well:

 

[bastardman25]

might be a ridiculous suggestion, but people could perhaps RTFM

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/

you wouldn't after all even think of typing off responses to a thread about quantum mechanics with bugger all understanding of the subject.

some people are talking like capitalism has been going on forever and is the only possible social foundation, it isn't, its only about 300 years old and it came about through revolution against monarchism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByOKZmQ72m4

here's the entirely watchable mark steel talking about Marx and Marxism in a less boring dry academic way.

 

[SovietPanda]

Sorry to pick on you but i this point has been made by a few times by different people and i just wanted to say my piece on it. "in principle a sound idea but flawed in reality" is just bad logic. A sound idea works reasonably well in reality. A lot of people seem to take this view on communism, I think it must translate into "It's a nice ideal, but it just doesn't work" but it irks me the way alot of people express that.

the reason people say that is because that is what it is. it is not impossible for an idea to be theoretically good but still not work in the real world. communism is one of those things, in theory it is a good idea, in reality though you cannot get millions of people to all do exactly as planned and that is its flaw, it works on paper but not in reality, thus it is a good idea but flawed in reality

As a system for managing society and people in general can not be said to 'work in theory' if you have to qualify that statement by saying 'people will screw it up'. A "Good theory" would at least be workable under the right conditions, communism is not because those right conditions would be "as long as we dont get any people involved"

 

[SilverUchiha]

snip

In there you said that part of what would make communism work is that you are given, from an early age, the mindset that you work as part of the collective. While that might work (on average), it wouldn't always work. This might be a stretch of a comparison, but I think it bears similar grounds. I remember back in school how my mom would get really involved with school and school activities. I remember how my parents were pushing me to get involved in all the extra curricular things and so forth. They'd tell me stories of their involvement in their schools and on and on. Thing is, I didn't care. At a certain point, probably at the end of elementary school, I just stopped caring about being there or having any pride in it. To me, it was just a building I was stuck in for several hours of my day.

the point I'm trying to make with that long and seemingly pointless story is that you can try to teach people to follow the ways of society. But eventually people will question it or go against it. Why do you think people stopped monarchies? Why do you think dictators get overthrown? Not everyone will like the idea of working for the collective, even if they are taught to do so. Sorry to refute your argument, but this is an interesting debate and I've got loads of free time right now.

 

[MaxwellEdison]

Common use: Totalitarian Socialism, used through history by the USSR, China, and Cuba.
Actual theory: The idea that a stateless classless society can only be achieved by the working classes taking power in a "dictatorship of the proletariat", a transitional state, which will wither away with time.

 

[megs1120]

Communism is the United Federation of Planets.

 

[thelastmccabe]

Communism is an economic system where the ownership of private property has been abolished or at least severely limited. Property is owned collectively by everyone. I've never been sure how far this extends. I mean, if you go to the store and buy something in a Communist country with money or ration tickets or whatever, you do own it. If someone came in your house and took it, then it would still be theft. At least, that is how it has worked in practice. In a pure communist system, maybe this would not be the case. What Communism really seems to mean is government ownership or control over commerce and industry.

There's a lot of stuff that goes along with communism like theories about how it's going to come about, about the proletariat overthrowing the owning classes (I totally can't spell that bourg- word). This is part of it that I don't really know much about.

As I understand it, communism is just an economic system rather than a political system, but in practice a lot of Communist countries have been totalitarian. In theory, you could have a communist democracy with human rights and the whole 9 yards. Socialism, as far as I can tell, is similar but there's a higher degree of private property ownership permitted. A lot of countries have had heavily socialized economies, such as England for a while before Margaret Thatcher. Maybe the difference is that socialists don't believe in overthrowing the existing government, but communists do.

Anyway, that's my understanding. Don't know if it's right.

 

[Waaghpowa]

I read a collection of works by Karl Marx last year; let's see how much of it I actually absorbed.

Philosophically, as I saw it, Marxism was mostly about achieving happiness. Marx applauded true democracy, and condemned any system wherein people would have to stifle their own self, their own humanity, in order to survive; in this case, capitalism. He wrote a great deal about a worker devaluing himself by creating things, by investing himself in making things, which were not his, nor were they for him. He loses himself, as he only feels free to act on his animal needs--eating, drinking, procreating; in acting as a human, he is forced to subdue himself and work for another. The worker them becomes subservient to the products of his labour which allow him to exist, as they provide him with means for living.
In brief, he was upset at the thought that people would have to return to a job they hated day after day just to survive; in that regard, Communism would be a system which would provide for the people so that they could survive as humans, so that they could affirm themselves and not deny themselves. In practice, the government would have to own everything in order to distribute it, and most people seem to take issue with that. I'm not particularly politically savvy, so I won't get into the merits of communism beyond its base philosophy, but I will argue that in its base philosophy, it's beautiful.

EDIT: I'm American.

You pretty much have it right, I would've added the mention of the class struggle, but I wont get too much into that.

 

[BristolBerserker]

I believe that communism cannot and does not work. Humans are not equal beings, we aren't born equal, grow equal or die equal. We are driven to advance, our basic instinct tells us that the strong are in charge. In communist countries there is always a social elite that hold all the power, denying the people of freedom while telling them of the evils of capitalism and the imperial west. If anything, a communist government is more oppressive towards the people than a fascist one.

 

[wilsontheterrible]

I'm not posting this to find out what communism is but rather to find out how communism is percieved, especially by americans who generally seem to have a pretty skewed idea about it.

The phrase that comes to mind is that "Communism is the very definition of failure!"

In all seriousness though if you're looking for perceptions I've got one. However Lenin and Trotsky thought their lovely system would work out it's implementations has inflicted more horrors on the human race than I care to think of. Genocide, inflicted famine, euthanasia, and murder.

I come from a Cuban family. My great grandfather had worked his way into a management position in one of the banks in Artemisa. My uncles worked their way through school and one of them became a fairly successful store owner. We managed to get a tip from outside of the country before the revolution but a few of us stayed behind. Those who stayed paid the price. Most got off with a few years of hard labor but there's a reason the Miami Cubans refer to Che Guevara as the Butcher of La Cabaña. I was born long after then but the scars run deep in my family.

Advocates of communism may have some admirable desires but the only fruit its born has been death and devastation. It doesn't even matter if you embrace it or reject it, everyone suffers in the end.

 

[Sandernista]

The perfect utopia that succeeds socialism? (Socialism is what follows laissez faire style capitalism)

Too bad I might not be around for it

 

[r0kle0nZ]

In theory Communism is a great idea for government, however when put into practice fails horribly. When someone realizes that they can get away with doing nothing and still getting the amount as the guy next door.

Meh, if it worked as good as it did on paper maybe everyone would be communist. But, it doesn't oh well. Democracy FTW

-Asian-American FYI

 

[kingpocky]

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but I would also say that the labor theory of value from Marx fails to explain the behavior of prices as well as the concept of marginalism, so I doubt the conclusions about society he draws from it

 

[Kyrian007]

Sounds great, but in practice it is a system far to easy to corrupt. The government has to own everything, so in turn a hopefully "classless" system becomes a struggle between a working class and a "government" class. That's why it was outlasted (on the large scale) by American capitalism.

The use of past tens is interresting . But why would the existence of a government nessecarily lead to the existence of a ruling class? Is true altruism a myth? Is government without people inconcievable?

Even if the government class has to exist, why would there have to be struggle?

Not trying to defend communism here, just looking for elaboration

I'm not saying that altruism doesn't exist. But neither can anyone say that avarice doesn't exist either. Both will rise to the level of power they deem necessary to achieve their ends. The problem is that with the altruistic, once they achieve their goal it's "mission accomplished." Avarice... lust for power, money, acceptance, whatever it is... it's never enough. That's why that sort of ruling class rises to power and tends to stay there. It's better (if cynical) to accept that and try and make a system like that work for as many people as possible. "Government without people" "Rules of law, not men" yeah that would be good, for a while. The reason it can't happen is it fosters a social stagnation. People change and evolve, government has to as well. Look at it from a standpoint of gun control laws. (here in the US) "Open carry" "concealed carry" restrictions and gun control... those things weren't as important when our Constitution was written. In those days you had one shot, which was only accurate at point blank range, before having to remain stationary for about a minute to reload the weapon. "The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" was enough back then. Today... it would mean that my neighbor could have a pair of micro-Uzis, it's not enough anymore. And who knows what we would need in the future?

It's just one example. Government without people... couldn't last long.

 

[Berk]

I'm not posting this to find out what communism is but rather to find out how communism is percieved, especially by americans who generally seem to have a pretty skewed idea about it.

That's due to decades of propaganda and fear mongering. I'm American, and I know that communism is just an economic system, and not a monster living under my bed. Give us alil more credit, eh?

 

[vxicepickxv]

When I think of communism, I think also of anarchy. They are not diametrically opposed views either. They would in fact, be one in the same.

It's not going to happen though, at least not with people. Maybe if we were all Geth.

America.

 

[DanielDeFig]

From sweden, but i've spent my life travelling.

My view on Communism: Utopian Theory, but has yet to work in practice.
Also, even in theory, Communism seems to forget about giving people a proper incentive to work,or simply expect "national pride" to be enough of an incentive for a surgeon to spend eight years in medical school, only to earn about as much as the hospital janitor.

One word:Cuba.
They have a really good medical system (and due to the US blockcade they're stuck in the 50s) and yet everyone more or less earns around the same wage. Heck I think the US trade embargo is almost a good thing as it has prevented consumer goods taking a hold and spreading consumerism.

National pride is not what its about; its more about wanting to do the best thing for your community(went more in depth in an earlier post). Communism is more less based around the idea that humans have the potential to be selfless social beings who look at for each other. There are even a few examples of other social animals adopting similar structures; such as a species of Meerkats.

Yeah I hear about Cuba often as an example of working communism, but as I haven't done any research for myself (not even wikipedia), I don't use it as an example myself. Basically, I don't know how much I would agree Cuba "works", but it's one of the reasons I'm not 100% sold on the idea that Communism is only a good theory and can't work in practice (but then again I'm not 100% sold on the idea that Communism is perfect either, I don't know all the intricate details, so I don't know if I would agree with all points).

As far as I'm concerned most attempts get distracted by the in-between stage of government power, and decide to never allow siad powerful government to naturally dissolve, as it's supposed to. It's not that communism can't work in practice, it's that it has yet to (with Cuba being an exception).