What is with Jrpg's?

[Samcanuck]

Why has every post with the correct answer been ignored?

Young japanese men are for the most part, socially inept and complete failures at women. Also seeing as japan is a partriarchal society, the young men are given a massive dose of personality disorder by having to live up to the manly men of the house that their fathers are. Not to mention the sexual repression which leads to all these perverse habbits they have.

Socialising in japanese culture is like a train wreck in slow motion.... How that race manages to reproduce is beyond me.


However, i for one dispise the main characters of JRPGs because they are the polar opposite of myself and i find them infuriating. I am completley unable to relate to them and I spend my time yelling at the screen, cursing them for their stupididy.

I can really however, sum this rant up with an image of my favorite piece of JRPG lead character dialouge, which apears in every JRPG game over and over without fail.
I believe it symbolises the strength and value of all JRPG lead characters.

Not true, I'm not ignoring. They are good answers. Cept I typically only reply directly to post's where I am quoted. Your answer is on the path to the root of my question, I'm not sure if it is true or not (never been to Japan) but you seem to believe its a difference in culture that spawns this type of game...the Jrp. Thanks for your, and all others, responses.

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

You think girls don't like effeminate guys? I don't want to say you are living under a rock but...

In other words, some girls like effeminate guys a lot, in fact some girls only like those kind of guys.

The majority don't in the realie real world. As far as I have seen in my time. You telling me most women like lack of confidence or a guy who doesn't seem like they can or will protect them?

The guys end up kicking ass and saving the world, just because they doubt themselves verbally doesn't mean they do literally. It largely depends on what type of girl anyway, not all girls like the stereotype of being a helpless girl needing a man to protect them.

Look man, go out to a bar...people watch a bit. I'm just saying what I have seen and experianced. Women tend to not even look twice at the unsure guy. You might think differently, but I have heard and seen everything on the contrary. Not sure where you are coming from...but I personally think you are fooling yourself to think that most women regard effeminate/weak traits as attractive. Doesn't mean women are weak for that. Jesus...look at 100% of nature for goodness sake!

If you're picking up girls in a bar or club the ol' "look at my muscles" way of getting the girl is fine but it's called a one night stand.

I don't see Tidus tiptoeing out of bed and leaving Yuna with a note, no he'd stay and cuddle, and that's the difference in a relationship and sex.

If she wants sex it's likely the masculine guy who seems a bit dumb, do it then leave, that appeals but most girls, if they want someone to love, it'll be the guy who can understand her emotions and the guy she trusts won't play her and for that they have to be a bit effeminite, and every JRPG lead is relatively good-looking so that helps

How old are you anyways? Have you even read anything I have put? Are you a female or a ladies man? Can you explain exactly the 'Look at my muscles' way of getting girls exactly? Do you have any kind of logic behind what you are saying?

What does my age have to do with anything? Almost every female I know (from 20 - 50) would rather settle down with someone caring and emotional such as those in JRPGs than Mr Beef. Of course everyone is different but if we're working on extremes (which is what stereotypes are) the most women I know would rather be with the emotional guy who cares about them and makes them feel loved than the guy who's too manly to admit that crying is a natural human thing.

Also just remembered, Tidus is Zanarkand's equivalent of David Beckham, he's a world famous sports star and he's even overly flirty with two random girls at the start of the game...I'm gonna have to agree with most in this thread when it comes to being awkward around women, that doesn't happen, I'd say it's often the other way around, isn't the stereotype that they have a female best friend (or something) who loves the guy and he falls for relative new girl and woos her a bit by being uber cool?

 

[Samcanuck]

You think girls don't like effeminate guys? I don't want to say you are living under a rock but...

In other words, some girls like effeminate guys a lot, in fact some girls only like those kind of guys.

The majority don't in the realie real world. As far as I have seen in my time. You telling me most women like lack of confidence or a guy who doesn't seem like they can or will protect them?

The guys end up kicking ass and saving the world, just because they doubt themselves verbally doesn't mean they do literally. It largely depends on what type of girl anyway, not all girls like the stereotype of being a helpless girl needing a man to protect them.

Look man, go out to a bar...people watch a bit. I'm just saying what I have seen and experianced. Women tend to not even look twice at the unsure guy. You might think differently, but I have heard and seen everything on the contrary. Not sure where you are coming from...but I personally think you are fooling yourself to think that most women regard effeminate/weak traits as attractive. Doesn't mean women are weak for that. Jesus...look at 100% of nature for goodness sake!

If you're picking up girls in a bar or club the ol' "look at my muscles" way of getting the girl is fine but it's called a one night stand.

I don't see Tidus tiptoeing out of bed and leaving Yuna with a note, no he'd stay and cuddle, and that's the difference in a relationship and sex.

If she wants sex it's likely the masculine guy who seems a bit dumb, do it then leave, that appeals but most girls, if they want someone to love, it'll be the guy who can understand her emotions and the guy she trusts won't play her and for that they have to be a bit effeminite, and every JRPG lead is relatively good-looking so that helps

How old are you anyways? Have you even read anything I have put? Are you a female or a ladies man? Can you explain exactly the 'Look at my muscles' way of getting girls exactly? Do you have any kind of logic behind what you are saying?

What does my age have to do with anything? Almost every female I know (from 20 - 50) would rather settle down with someone caring and emotional such as those in JRPGs than Mr Beef. Of course everyone is different but if we're working on extremes (which is what stereotypes are) the most women I know would rather be with the emotional guy who cares about them and makes them feel loved than the guy who's too manly to admit that crying is a natural human thing.

Also just remembered, Tidus is Zanarkand's equivalent of David Beckham, he's a world famous sports star and he's even overly flirty with two random girls at the start of the game...I'm gonna have to agree with most in this thread when it comes to being awkward around women, that doesn't happen, I'd say it's often the other way around, isn't the stereotype that they have a female best friend (or something) who loves the guy and he falls for relative new girl and woos her a bit by being uber cool?

Your age has a lot to do with it. Your maturity, how much you have lived, and the typical womens age group that you go for. I feel at 26 that its rather foolish to believe that anyone younger than 20 knows a great deal about life or people. Even at 26 I am nowhere close to any real expertise in any way. But your age plays a huge role, especially in regards to maturity. If you are some highschool kid, you really don't know much. But perhaps highschool women go for the overly emotional, spazzy, whiney kid now-a-day's. Hell, I remember the girls back in the day being followed around by a group of these 'emotional or whiney' guy's. Mind you, they seemed just fine being in friend zone and had seemed to have no intension on making a move. Seemed to be the girls teddy bears infact, whilst the girl went on to date the more popular and none friendzone guys. And those people who had girlfriends back in the day NEVER came accross as those you are defending. Has that changed? Seem's doubly true at my age...'emo', whiney and overly nice guys don't just seem to finish last...they don't even seem to step up to the plate in fact. And I'm not saying being in friendzone makes you 'emo'. If you can't tell the difference in what I'm regarding, I'm not going to hold your hand...you just arent very observant in my opinion.

Now, Perhaps on extremes you are correct, I'll give you that one...(cept in regards to the meat market of the pub or club) But one extreme vs the average person, are you seriously still going to side with the extreme? And when did I ever give the example of the beefcake guy? Did I not say either the tough soldier or monk (who are typically already married I.G)? In this thred you feel threatened and will not see me half way, but if you can't distinguish between both groups, we have nothing more to say.

And besides, like I said before, its an opinion. The vague 'many' women you know means very little to me. Especially if you are younger than 20 and expect to understand the complexities of women well past your age just because you may of had a conversation with your mom or older sister. Hell, especially if you are under 20 and feel you understand women of your own age group....(you're in for a shock when girls turn 19 or 20). As far as I am concerned, yes...women want sensitivity. But first and formost they seem to want to be dating somebody who can present himself like a man and be real. And don't think I can't see how you keep dodging the questions...if you have nothing more to say about the sum of the main question why even continue this conversation...not to mention most of my side questions?

So whats the deal 'ladies man', where are you coming from with your point of view?

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

You think girls don't like effeminate guys? I don't want to say you are living under a rock but...

In other words, some girls like effeminate guys a lot, in fact some girls only like those kind of guys.

The majority don't in the realie real world. As far as I have seen in my time. You telling me most women like lack of confidence or a guy who doesn't seem like they can or will protect them?

The guys end up kicking ass and saving the world, just because they doubt themselves verbally doesn't mean they do literally. It largely depends on what type of girl anyway, not all girls like the stereotype of being a helpless girl needing a man to protect them.

Look man, go out to a bar...people watch a bit. I'm just saying what I have seen and experianced. Women tend to not even look twice at the unsure guy. You might think differently, but I have heard and seen everything on the contrary. Not sure where you are coming from...but I personally think you are fooling yourself to think that most women regard effeminate/weak traits as attractive. Doesn't mean women are weak for that. Jesus...look at 100% of nature for goodness sake!

If you're picking up girls in a bar or club the ol' "look at my muscles" way of getting the girl is fine but it's called a one night stand.

I don't see Tidus tiptoeing out of bed and leaving Yuna with a note, no he'd stay and cuddle, and that's the difference in a relationship and sex.

If she wants sex it's likely the masculine guy who seems a bit dumb, do it then leave, that appeals but most girls, if they want someone to love, it'll be the guy who can understand her emotions and the guy she trusts won't play her and for that they have to be a bit effeminite, and every JRPG lead is relatively good-looking so that helps

How old are you anyways? Have you even read anything I have put? Are you a female or a ladies man? Can you explain exactly the 'Look at my muscles' way of getting girls exactly? Do you have any kind of logic behind what you are saying?

What does my age have to do with anything? Almost every female I know (from 20 - 50) would rather settle down with someone caring and emotional such as those in JRPGs than Mr Beef. Of course everyone is different but if we're working on extremes (which is what stereotypes are) the most women I know would rather be with the emotional guy who cares about them and makes them feel loved than the guy who's too manly to admit that crying is a natural human thing.

Also just remembered, Tidus is Zanarkand's equivalent of David Beckham, he's a world famous sports star and he's even overly flirty with two random girls at the start of the game...I'm gonna have to agree with most in this thread when it comes to being awkward around women, that doesn't happen, I'd say it's often the other way around, isn't the stereotype that they have a female best friend (or something) who loves the guy and he falls for relative new girl and woos her a bit by being uber cool?

Your age has a lot to do with it. Your maturity, how much you have lived, and the typical womens age group that you go for. I feel at 26 that its rather foolish to believe that anyone younger than 20 knows a great deal about life or people. Even at 26 I am nowhere close to any real expertise in any way. But your age plays a huge role, especially in regards to maturity. If you are some highschool kid, you really don't know much. But perhaps highschool women go for the overly emotional, spazzy, whiney kid now-a-day's. Hell, I remember the girls back in the day being followed around by a group of these 'emotional or whiney' guy's. Mind you, they seemed just fine being in friend zone and had seemed to have no intension on making a move. Seemed to be the girls teddy bears infact, whilst the girl went on to date the more popular and none friendzone guys. And those people who had girlfriends back in the day NEVER came accross as those you are defending. Has that changed? Seem's doubly true at my age...'emo', whiney and overly nice guys don't just seem to finish last...they don't even seem to step up to the plate in fact. And I'm not saying being in friendzone makes you 'emo'. If you can't tell the difference in what I'm regarding, I'm not going to hold your hand...you just arent very observant in my opinion.

Now, Perhaps on extremes you are correct, I'll give you that one...(cept in regards to the meat market of the pub or club) But one extreme vs the average person, are you seriously still going to side with the extreme? And when did I ever give the example of the beefcake guy? Did I not say either the tough soldier or monk (who are typically already married I.G)? In this thred you feel threatened and will not see me half way, but if you can't distinguish between both groups, we have nothing more to say.

And besides, like I said before, its an opinion. The vague 'many' women you know means very little to me. Especially if you are younger than 20 and expect to understand the complexities of women well past your age just because you may of had a conversation with your mom or older sister. Hell, especially if you are under 20 and feel you understand women of your own age group....(you're in for a shock when girls turn 19 or 20). As far as I am concerned, yes...women want sensitivity. But first and formost they seem to want to be dating somebody who can present himself like a man and be real. And don't think I can't see how you keep dodging the questions...if you have nothing more to say about the sum of the main question why even continue this conversation...not to mention most of my side questions?

So whats the deal 'ladies man', where are you coming from with your point of view?

We're talking about media here...there is nothing but extremes in gaming, film, tv, radio, print. When was the last time the 'average guy' was represented in any medium? It doesn't matter if it's Final Fantasy XIII, The Big Bang Theory, Avatar, The Archers, Harry Potter, Eastenders, Gears of War, Naruto, whatever, not one character in any of these is real, nor are they representations of real people from our culture, they are stereotypes and no matter if it were Snow or Sheldon, they'd both have about the same chance of picking up a girl because they're both extremes. If it were you, an uber whiney emo child or a bodybuilder all after the same female, you'd most likely win but as you aren't a video game character and we only ever get extremes in fiction, then the more feminine guy's gonna get the girl.

I'm 20 if you must know but here's a story, in high school I was invisible or in the friendzone, as soon as my age group grew a little older the girls realised that going for the bad or popular boy's gonna get you hurt and now girls quite like me, They know what I'm like, they know I'm an emotional geeky effeminite and passionate guy, I'm nervous around girls, especially pretty ones but yeah, I come across as a friend then they start to like me more and respect me. I have no confidence and when I've been to bars and clubs I'm invisible again, it's exactly like high school so I go for girls who are mentally past that place and prefer quiet 1 on 1 places, that way I can have a conversation...what I mean is I know things are different outside of school and the people who realise it's not all about being popular or confident to get the girl are the ones who are mature. I'm not one for thinking that age defines actions, I know plenty of 40 year olds (yes my mums friends) that I am way more mature than mentally.

OK, you're right, women like men who can be real and to be a man but being a man and being manly are two different things, being a man means coming of age, growing in maturity and doing what needs to be done to protect the ones you love (a recurring theme in JRPGs might I add) and becoming a man is believing that being yourself is good enough through the self-doubt. Having and dealing with emotions is part of becoming a man.

In summation - average man not portrayed in media, stereotypes don't exist in real life only misconceptions, in games the main character grows up then gets the girl 1 to appeal to a target audience and 2 because emotional conflict is more interesting than just fighting, in real life girls have different opinions but it's guaranteed that if you're an average man who is sensitive and passionate you've more of a chance than the average man who likes to punch things.

 

[FinalHeart95]

Hmm...I never got that impression of Cecil until I played the DS version and understood the overal impression and approach that Cecil used when saying his given dialoge. Guess, you wont know until you play the game, for it's all about your own mind reading voiceless text in the Snes version. Different when you see the character beat the wall with his fist or cry out so very often in a melodramatic way.

But yes you have answered the questions. If I am correct you feel that Jrpg's base there storylines with the idea of growth of personality...starting with personalities that fail to denote a presence of leadership, but then move into doing just that. I personally feel, even at the end, the main characters typically fail to achieve an overal presence of leadership, and are simple acceptied for there flaw's. I also fail to see the draw that ones own personality progression should somehow enhance an already solid plot (as seen in the contrary by voiceless yet timeless Jrpg hero's)...and moreso, be the main theme overtop of the main plot. That's what I was wondering...if its a culture thing. Some others have said that it is a cutlure thing on the thred. I feel that I have learned what I can now and am now just damage controlling however.

Anyways, have a good one.

Very true. Voice acting can also make or break a character (See: Tidus), so that gives people a very different guide to judge older characters by. I will also say that the very same melodramatics that you mention can be very annoying for me, which is weird because they are so very present in JRPGs, which I love. Depends how it's pulled off I suppose.

I will have to disagree with you in your second paragraph though. Cloud really comes into his own in FFVII, as does, say Sora by the end of KHI. With the flaw thing, every character needs flaws at every point in the story. If you get rid of a character's flaws, you get rid of his humanity, which is the very thing that makes characters so relate-able. Let's use a book example, with Twilight. That series has two characters (Edward and Bella) with very little to no flaws, and look at how compelling that series is. You have to take into account that the plot itself is pretty poor as well, but great characters can sometimes cover that up.

As for culture, it is culture. There's no denying that. Look at the popularity of JRPGs abroad as compared to the western world. There is a huge difference, as Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts are really the only JRPG series that ever caught on over here. What exactly about the Japanese culture makes them love JRPGs, I couldn't tell you. But there's some difference that makes them so popular over there, and not so much over here.

 

[Samcanuck]

Hmm...I never got that impression of Cecil until I played the DS version and understood the overal impression and approach that Cecil used when saying his given dialoge. Guess, you wont know until you play the game, for it's all about your own mind reading voiceless text in the Snes version. Different when you see the character beat the wall with his fist or cry out so very often in a melodramatic way.

But yes you have answered the questions. If I am correct you feel that Jrpg's base there storylines with the idea of growth of personality...starting with personalities that fail to denote a presence of leadership, but then move into doing just that. I personally feel, even at the end, the main characters typically fail to achieve an overal presence of leadership, and are simple acceptied for there flaw's. I also fail to see the draw that ones own personality progression should somehow enhance an already solid plot (as seen in the contrary by voiceless yet timeless Jrpg hero's)...and moreso, be the main theme overtop of the main plot. That's what I was wondering...if its a culture thing. Some others have said that it is a cutlure thing on the thred. I feel that I have learned what I can now and am now just damage controlling however.

Anyways, have a good one.

Very true. Voice acting can also make or break a character (See: Tidus), so that gives people a very different guide to judge older characters by. I will also say that the very same melodramatics that you mention can be very annoying for me, which is weird because they are so very present in JRPGs, which I love. Depends how it's pulled off I suppose.

I will have to disagree with you in your second paragraph though. Cloud really comes into his own in FFVII, as does, say Sora by the end of KHI. With the flaw thing, every character needs flaws at every point in the story. If you get rid of a character's flaws, you get rid of his humanity, which is the very thing that makes characters so relate-able. Let's use a book example, with Twilight. That series has two characters (Edward and Bella) with very little to no flaws, and look at how compelling that series is. You have to take into account that the plot itself is pretty poor as well, but great characters can sometimes cover that up.

As for culture, it is culture. There's no denying that. Look at the popularity of JRPGs abroad as compared to the western world. There is a huge difference, as Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts are really the only JRPG series that ever caught on over here. What exactly about the Japanese culture makes them love JRPGs, I couldn't tell you. But there's some difference that makes them so popular over there, and not so much over here.

Well, mind you the Chrono series is rather popular...so is Dragon quest, Breath of Fire and the Mana series. But I know what you are saying, they are less popular than Kingdom hearts and FF...it's tough due to the fact that many of the main developers are from Asia.

Personally, I am not a fan of Twilight due to the plot holes and things I disagree with (taking the vegitarian families side in killing there own kind becuase someone wishes to eat a cow...er human? Be like Peta killing me for eating shooting a deer in hunting season). I am personally not sure what makes the series so beloved. I'll have to take your word on the reasoning.

I can see where you are coming from, it's just I find a goal (be it political, religous, halt-genocide, etc) is much more enthrawling to me than personality strengthening...and heavy meladrama.

 

[WhiteMonkey]

Ironically, FF13 is a perfect counter example.

Lightning:
- Experienced miltary background: Check
- Awkward around women: No way. Just not interested in them
- Effeminate Appearance: Okay, I'll give you that

Ironically, you seam to have missed the point.

I am wondering about these main characters in many of the Jrpg's. You know the ones, these guy's who are whiny, weepy, spazzy, very effeminate and lack confidence with women.

Lightining is female, if I didn't miss anything. So, how is she a "perfect counter argument" for this MC type?
I only mentioned FFXIII because of the character trends that seam to prevail in the series. Sure, the MC doesn't fit this description, but Hope sure does.

 

[Eponet]

Ironically, FF13 is a perfect counter example.

Lightning:
- Experienced miltary background: Check
- Awkward around women: No way. Just not interested in them
- Effeminate Appearance: Okay, I'll give you that

Ironically, you seam to have missed the point.

I am wondering about these main characters in many of the Jrpg's. You know the ones, these guy's who are whiny, weepy, spazzy, very effeminate and lack confidence with women.

Lightining is female, if I didn't miss anything. So, how is she a "perfect counter argument" for this MC type?
I only mentioned FFXIII because of the character trends that seam to prevail in the series. Sure, the MC doesn't fit this description, but Hope sure does.

I was just messing around there, it was a joke. Snow is probably the most predominant male character; and is an even better example.

- Sure he doesn't have a military background, but he has led before.
- Lacking Confidence with Women: Also a doesn't care about other women.
- Effeminate Appearance: No way in the nine hells.
- Whiny: Absolutely not; other than at a couple of points, he seemed too busy working to fix things to give up.
- Spazzy: Well, he's enthusiastic, you wouldn't want him to go wallowing in depression would you?
- Weepy: Yeah, definately not.

As for Hope, he seemed more of a sidekick than a main character at the beginning.