What?s Wrong with Mass Effect 2?

[Duskflamer]

Question: How did the Omega-4 relay get built if it's the only way between the two points it connects? Presumably there are other, far more treacherous, paths between those two points and the relay only serves to make a safer trip. But if I'm understanding the way relays work (Relay built in point A connects to relay built in point B), you'd have to have another way to get to points A and B to build the relays before you can use them.

Fucked if I know, that's yet another plot hole. Everything in the game says the Omega-4 relay is the only way in or out of the system.

No, the way I remember it people knew that the Collectors were using it to move through the system, but they didn't know exactly where it led to (not until EDI tracked it down, which happened after you gained the ability to move through the relay IIRC). Also keep in mind that the Reapers have vastly superior technology, parts of space that are impossible for the alliance races to move through could simply amount to rough spots for the Reapers, turning paths that are impossible to cross into paths that are undesirable to use.

 

[Oro44]

I'm starting to feel like one in an extreme minority who actually liked ME2 and DA2. For this, I've been attacked as "not having standards" and being the "masses that are being pandered to". It's become fashionable as of late to hate Bioware for their latest releases and its getting old. However, I will add this; the quality of EA games seems to have taken a tumble. The Modern Warfare series is quickly turning into a Michael Bay movie and Black Ops made no g'damn sense to me. And these got perfect scores all over the place. I guess the point to all this is that the quality of a game is not an objective thing. It is entirely subjective. People are going to love a game, people are going to hate a game. But people should not be attacked for their opinion on the matter, and this article, I think, does a good job in voicing complaints without taking it out on the fans. I applaud Shamus for this, and I hope others learn from it. Ah, nerd rage. Therapeutic.

 

[Lorechaser]

I have raged against the railroading (I have to work with Cerberus?),.

I have to work with the Alliance? I have to become a Spectre? I have to oppose Saren?

There's always some railroading, and you at least have the chance to play it as if you are undermining them or agree with them (or a mix).

Those are different. My Paragon Shepard wouldn't work with Cerberus. He destroyed three of their bases, his whole team was killed because of them, they are radically pro-human. And I never worked with the Alliance. I did missions they gave/suggested to me, but I made it clear that I was a Spectre now (like saying fuck you to the ship inspection guy).

I completely agree. I am a huge Bioware fanboy. I own at least one copy of every game they've made, two of several, at least 4 of KOTOR (two on Xbox, because I lost one for a while, one on Steam, one on physical media). I signed up for SWTOR the day it was available, I bought the freakin' item packs on DA2, for god's sake. I'm not a hater, looking to cap on them at my first chance. And to be clear, I have preordered ME3 already, just in case they do another "pre-orders get Signature Editions" bit.

My first thought on playing ME2 was "Wait, excuse me? Cerberus? Aren't they horrible, awful people? Didn't I spend a lot of my time last game thwarting them?" I had honestly thought they might be the bad guys in ME2. And suddenly Martin Sheen is explaining that I should work for them. And my choices are "Okay," "*sigh*, okay," and "No! Well, okay." I get that once it was laid in that you'd work for Cerberus, you can't have a "no" choice. I contend that making Cerberus the "good" guys was a bad choice.

I got over it, kinda. I spent every mission going "Dammit, why am I doing this for them?" at least once. I chose the "They're dicks, but I guess I'm kinda weak willed" option whenever I could. I avoided going to talk to the Illusive Man whenever I could. I can honestly say it spoiled the game somewhat for me every time I was reminded I was working for them. And while we're at it, Bioware, usually you at least put the super connected all powerful archetype in the background a bit, and let us pretend we have our own goals. It kinda annoyed me to have TIM right there, lording it over me. Sure you're smart - you're a plot NPC! If I had the script, I could totally make those connections too!

I totally agree that the worst Bioware game is what other companies wish they could do. And I guess, on reflection, ME2 might be the worst Bioware game. It's still in my top 20 games. And I still recommend it to everyone I know.

 

[Lorechaser]

I'm starting to feel like one in an extreme minority who actually liked ME2 and DA2. For this, I've been attacked as "not having standards" and being the "masses that are being pandered to". It's become fashionable as of late to hate Bioware for their latest releases and its getting old.

I'll totally agree on this. The entire "Oh, everyone who has any taste hates DA2" thing is getting really old. I get it. You didn't enjoy DA2. I did. This is really not a defining characteristic for either of us.

I don't think Shamus is in that boat, though. 1. It's kinda his thing to nitpick games. It's why many of his fans started reading him (that, or his LOTRO comic). 2. His critiques are pretty valid. 3. He's here to amuse us/make us annoyed. He sure did that.

 

[Nylis]

I expect my video game plots to have some holes in them. I expect my movies to have some holes in them. Nature of the beast.

What I dislike is when the holes are gigantic gaping tears in reality that stick in my craw to the point where I can't focus on the rest of experience.

More than anything, what bothers me is the inconsistency of ME. I was psyched to hear I'd be going to Tuchanka to glad-hand Wrex and see what he's been doing as Padishah Emperor of the Krogan. I was a little upset to learn it was backhanding the canon.

Mordin/EDI explains to us that the genophage alters krogan fertility rates. Every other source of info about the genophage in the games (read: the krogan themselves), seem to think that the genophage randomly ends the fertility of 99.999% of the females of their race. Are the krogan just stupid? Is Wrex's propaganda network that tight? The krogan and the rest of the galaxy seem to have two different sets of info about how the genophage works, and it is NEVER ADDRESSED. That could be time constraints, but it could also be poor editing. Given the general daffyness of the rest of ME2, I'm much more inclined to think the latter.

Why is Subject Zero portrayed as aunstoppable face-wrecking badass when she's more of a squishy wizard in gameplay? Why is no one other than Mordin doing anything on the ship until you come over and poke them for conversation? Why does Garrus, a deeply loved character, have the shortest dialogue tree?

I don't think EA is responsible for these changes per se, but I would be upset if they didn't lift a finger to stop them. ME2 could've been great. Now it's just good.

I can answer that krogan question easy. There is one point where talking to Mordin that he says "the genophage is commonly and INCORRECLY called a sterility plague." Mordin then goes on to say that the genophage actually just puts the krogan birthrate back to pre-industrialised levels. The krogan have no idea HOW the genophage works or what it ACTUALLY does. All they know is they don't have as many successful births as they used to. And since krogans are not as smart as Salarian scientists, and don't have much interest in such things, this is the conclusion that they came to.

As for the whole subject zero gameplay thing, I can counter that by asking, why in final fantasy Dirge of Cerberus is Vinent able to jump 50 ft in the air and shoot down helicopters in a single shot in the cutscenes, but then during the game he plays like a 5 yr old with a peashooter?

 

[satsugaikaze]

Also; a really big plot hole throughout the series: It's been established that Asari can read minds.
Circumstantial evidence is valid.

Well there was that thing where Liara dives into Shepard's head in Mass Effect 1 to see his visions.

That's pretty much that hole filled right there

My first thought on playing ME2 was "Wait, excuse me? Cerberus? Aren't they horrible, awful people? Didn't I spend a lot of my time last game thwarting them?" I had honestly thought they might be the bad guys in ME2. And suddenly Martin Sheen is explaining that I should work for them. And my choices are "Okay," "*sigh*, okay," and "No! Well, okay." I get that once it was laid in that you'd work for Cerberus, you can't have a "no" choice. I contend that making Cerberus the "good" guys was a bad choice.

Jerk!Shepard turns the whole thing on its head by stating multiple times "I DON'T WORK FOR CERBERUS, CERBERUS WORKS FOR ME. BITCHES."

 

[Savber]

I'm starting to feel like one in an extreme minority who actually liked ME2 and DA2. For this, I've been attacked as "not having standards" and being the "masses that are being pandered to". It's become fashionable as of late to hate Bioware for their latest releases and its getting old. However, I will add this; the quality of EA games seems to have taken a tumble. The Modern Warfare series is quickly turning into a Michael Bay movie and Black Ops made no g'damn sense to me. And these got perfect scores all over the place. I guess the point to all this is that the quality of a game is not an objective thing. It is entirely subjective. People are going to love a game, people are going to hate a game. But people should not be attacked for their opinion on the matter, and this article, I think, does a good job in voicing complaints without taking it out on the fans. I applaud Shamus for this, and I hope others learn from it. Ah, nerd rage. Therapeutic.

True but I want to point out that EA didn't publish Modern Warfare... It's Activision.

EA has the BATTLEFIELD franchise. But yeah... in all honesty, it seems that everyone hates Bioware now. It's the 'cool' thing to do.

 

[Garrison_005]

Shamus, I have to say that was one of the worst critiques I've read, on anything gaming related. Ever.

Most of your issues were legitimately explained in ME2, or are just plain wrong\ill thought out.

Totally in agreement with you here, man. Really tired of people hating on Bioware because they're trying to go in a new direction with their games. At its core, Mass Effect 2 is still an RPG and the story is epic. Most of the supposed 'plot-holes' that he mentioned dont even exist, as you pointed out. Keep up the good work, Honest.

 

[Himmelgeher]

Most of you're "plot holes" have in game explanations, not fanon. The only plot hole you mentioned was TIM not telling Shepard he was walking into a trap. Granted, since everything the Collectors have ever done has been a trap, you should have seen that coming. And if you saw it coming, then Shepard saw it coming, because you are Shepard. Literally every other point brought up has an explanation either in dialogue or in the Codex.

 

[Himmelgeher]

Fucked if I know, that's yet another plot hole. Everything in the game says the Omega-4 relay is the only way in or out of the system.

Well, no. Omega-4 has a sister relay. A mass relay is incapable of functioning without one. Just because they don't specifically say "the Omega-4 relay has a sister relay" doesn't mean it doesn't have one. Everything in the game, in fact, does point to a sister relay near the Collector base. The game also never shows any of your squad mates eating. This is sort of like suggesting (or, more accurately, insisting) that because none of your squad-mates have a meal onscreen that they are absolutely, unquestionably, irrevocably vampires. Then going on to say that this means there is the plot hole of Vampires existing in the Mass Effect universe when nothing else has been supernatural in the game (well, except for telekinesis, mind-melding, giant, magical, mind-controlling sentient ships, and zombies). The way I see it, there are one of three possibilities: you aren't paying any attention, and then making stuff up, you have some kind of mental disorder, or you're manufacturing non-existent plot holes for the sole purpose of complaining about them on the internet. All of those are just kind of sad. In reference to the post before; we don't have any idea what the Reapers are actually capable of. We can guess, but that isn't the same thing as knowing. They're mile-long, sentient starships capable of doing things we can't imagine. I think it's pretty safe to say that if the Reapers built a base in the core, then they had a way of doing it, because they did it.

 

[bjj hero]

Experienced points is my favourite article on the escapist and I cant read it due to spoilers...

I should beat ME2 quick.

 

[Agayek]

Well, no. Omega-4 has a sister relay. A mass relay is incapable of functioning without one. Just because they don't specifically say "the Omega-4 relay has a sister relay" doesn't mean it doesn't have one. Everything in the game, in fact, does point to a sister relay near the Collector base. The game also never shows any of your squad mates eating. This is sort of like suggesting (or, more accurately, insisting) that because none of your squad-mates have a meal onscreen that they are absolutely, unquestionably, irrevocably vampires. Then going on to say that this means there is the plot hole of Vampires existing in the Mass Effect universe when nothing else has been supernatural in the game (well, except for telekinesis, mind-melding, giant, magical, mind-controlling sentient ships, and zombies). The way I see it, there are one of three possibilities: you aren't paying any attention, and then making stuff up, you have some kind of mental disorder, or you're manufacturing non-existent plot holes for the sole purpose of complaining about them on the internet. All of those are just kind of sad. In reference to the post before; we don't have any idea what the Reapers are actually capable of. We can guess, but that isn't the same thing as knowing. They're mile-long, sentient starships capable of doing things we can't imagine. I think it's pretty safe to say that if the Reapers built a base in the core, then they had a way of doing it, because they did it.

Eh, it appears I misunderstood the original statement. They had to get there originally to build the thing, and to do that, to the best of our knowledge, they would have had to travel that distance at sub-light speeds.

Meaning it took millions (possibly billions) of years.

Meaning any organic species trying to copy that feat are going to fail spectacularly and almost certainly die out in the process.

Thus, the only useful route, for both the Collectors and the "good species" is via the Omega-4 relay.

Therefore, the fact that the Reapers did it before is completely irrelevant to everything.

 

[mschweiz]

1. i think the death of commander Shepard was a GOOD plot point because it shows how powerful his enemies are and how hard the people of the galaxy work against them. it was really meant to hit people emotionally who spent a lot of time with their Shepard from ME1. it also served as a great spring board for the people who just started the story, specifically on ps3
2.Cerberus only attacked humans because they wanted to study the Thresher maw's effects on humans biologically(because they need to know how the poison specifically affects humans, plus it was soldiers, not ) and how to improve humanity's defenses against these types of attacks. and keep in mind that Cerberus does not care for individuals, but rather humanity as a whole. they are willing to sacrifice people to serve the "greater good" that is the conflict between Paragon(caring for the individual) and Renegade(caring for the whole). and for the record Cerberus only counts the facility where they tortured jack rogue, none of the others
3.the alliance wont help you because the illusive man sent out a report that Shepard is working for them. and i agree that dialog tree could be a little more explicative of what Shepard will say. otherwise it will have the problem that alpha protocol had in that you don't know what will happen when you choose a dialog option.
4. it is Shepard's thing that he goes into trouble and does things himself. otherwise the game would be rts and while we are on the thought, the collectors cant fly away with Shepard in their ship because it takes so long for the ship to warm up and get ready to fly.
5. i agree that the illusive man was idiotic in that he sent Shepard into a trap. but again this was meant for characterization of the illusive man in that he has infallible trust in humanity and Shepard. plus the whole "for the greater good"
6.Shepard thought it may be a trap, seconded by EDI. did you see the freaking size of the ship. you may have been able to destroy it if the entire ship wasn't trying to leave with you in it. plus it would have been impossible to blow a ship that size with one bomb. and they need to extract information.
7. the whole destruction of a relay in the Arrival DLC was supposed to happen after the collector base battle. so Shepard would not know about it and even if he did people would notice if he were towing a huge moon into the relay and try to stop him like the Batarians tried to do to the researchers.
8.i do agree that the idea of letting the only choices be to destroy the base or let Cerberus have it then making Shepard leave Cerberus was another bad scripting and forcing the player to take a rout that they may not want to take. i have had a problem with this for a while now and it really is not that bad. and apparently this will be fixed in ME3. by bring back more RPG features.

all in all i agree with you in how bioware forces Shepard what to do. it takes so much away from the already fantastic immersion. but sometimes you need to read into the game a little more than just take everything at face value.

 

[Lorechaser]

Jerk!Shepard turns the whole thing on its head by stating multiple times "I DON'T WORK FOR CERBERUS, CERBERUS WORKS FOR ME. BITCHES."

"CERBERUS WORKS FOR ME!"
"Captain, the Illusive Man wants to ramble at your in his spectacular voice for about five minutes, then make you do what he says, regardless of your current plans."
"Excuse me, I have to ... pee. I'll be back in a day or two."



That really annoyed me. Kelly told me TIM wanted to talk to me, and I went "okay, there's a story mission available when I'm ready. But first I want to go check out this....Wait, what? I can't go shopping until I talk to him? WTF?"

But still, Martin Sheen. I just pretend it's President Bartlett telling me what to do, and it takes the sting out.

 

[Oro44]

I'm starting to feel like one in an extreme minority who actually liked ME2 and DA2. For this, I've been attacked as "not having standards" and being the "masses that are being pandered to". It's become fashionable as of late to hate Bioware for their latest releases and its getting old. However, I will add this; the quality of EA games seems to have taken a tumble. The Modern Warfare series is quickly turning into a Michael Bay movie and Black Ops made no g'damn sense to me. And these got perfect scores all over the place. I guess the point to all this is that the quality of a game is not an objective thing. It is entirely subjective. People are going to love a game, people are going to hate a game. But people should not be attacked for their opinion on the matter, and this article, I think, does a good job in voicing complaints without taking it out on the fans. I applaud Shamus for this, and I hope others learn from it. Ah, nerd rage. Therapeutic.

True but I want to point out that EA didn't publish Modern Warfare... It's Activision.

EA has the BATTLEFIELD franchise. But yeah... in all honesty, it seems that everyone hates Bioware now. It's the 'cool' thing to do.

Activision, right. Brain fart there. I suppose with the latest sub-standard MoH and just plain weird Dante's Inferno, the point still stands. Hopefully the upcoming SSX will be good, it was such a fun series.

 

[searanox]

Seemed like a hell of a lot of nitpicking to me. People should really stop getting up in arms about the "stories" we're hearing about EA interfering with the franchise, all you're doing is upsetting yourselves. If some hard evidence comes out which clearly outlines EA's involvement in making the game worse in any way, I will eat my damn hat.

"Who cares if the game's plot is an incoherent mess? Freedom from contradiction and logical characters with clear motivations are for losers! On an unrelated note, I thought the Star Wars prequels were great."

 

[satsugaikaze]

I like how you completely dodged the point of the quote so you could reply with some unrelated snark.

Actually, no. I don't like it.

 

[ItsAPaul]

Heh, apparently people that write for magazines are allowed to write troll articles now.

 

[ThirdPrize]

Seemed like a hell of a lot of nitpicking to me. People should really stop getting up in arms about the "stories" we're hearing about EA interfering with the franchise, all you're doing is upsetting yourselves. If some hard evidence comes out which clearly outlines EA's involvement in making the game worse in any way, I will eat my damn hat.

I am afraid this is video games we are talking about. It was always going to be "Independence Day" rather than "Moon". We all just gotta live with it.

 

[AxiomaticBadger]

"Shepard, we've brought you back to life, and we'd like to give you free intel, a top of the line spaceship and a genetically engineered hooker in exchange for doing what you would do anyway. What do you say?"
... Seriously, this is a question?

It's like the whole rogue cells deal, the person saying it is emotionally stunted and basically clings to the concept of "good-cerberus". I was honestly amazed when I found out people think she was saying was in any way related to the truth. Sure, SHE thinks they were rogue cells, but come ON people.

The collectors come from through the Omega Relay... great, very useful. So now I can mine it to prevent any attempt at rescuing the lost collonists, and completely ignoring the idea that maybe there are collecters who are on THIS side of the relay.

As for the end, forget indoctrination, it doesn't matter. My arguement can be summed up by this quote...
Sovereign:- "Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays. Our technology. By using it, your civilization develops along the paths we desire."
This is re-enforced in the discussion with legion apropos the heretics, and how they were recruited.

Yes, by preserving the station, we'd gain tech. The tech to MAKE REAPERS.
Mass Effect has had one question running through it:- At what point does the end justify the means?
This ending simply exemplifies this.


One think I loved is how ME2 showed the Reaper psyche. Risking the collecters for shepard makes perfect sense once you realise that to Harbinger the collecters & thier entire operation are just dross, a hobby maybe. You go through this huge life or death struggle with the best the galaxy has to offer... in order to Slightly Inconvenience a SINGLE Reaper.