What separates the hardcore and casual crowd
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No, of course not. The problem is not in the casual fanbase, it's the misguided developer/publisher belief that "niche franchise + casual pandering = 5+ million sales".DrVornoff said:
It ruined Command and Conquer, Splinter Cell, Dragon Age, Crysis and it's the reason people think casual gamers are bad for the industry, when they really aren't.
Not sure about the "crowd", but I had a revelation the other day about what separates "hardcore" and "casual" games.
It's simple. "Hardcore" games assumed a certain level of prior knowledge about how video games (especially of the same genre) work. "Casual" games don't assume anything beyond that you probably know how to switch your PC/console on and put the disk in.
So Viva Pinata is a casual game because it explains absolutely everything, meaning my non-gamer sister was able to pick it up and play it with no problems. Whereas the tutorial section in Devil May Cry 4 wasn't nearly informative enough to teach her how to play, making it a hardcore game.
It's simple. "Hardcore" games assumed a certain level of prior knowledge about how video games (especially of the same genre) work. "Casual" games don't assume anything beyond that you probably know how to switch your PC/console on and put the disk in.
So Viva Pinata is a casual game because it explains absolutely everything, meaning my non-gamer sister was able to pick it up and play it with no problems. Whereas the tutorial section in Devil May Cry 4 wasn't nearly informative enough to teach her how to play, making it a hardcore game.
Actually, no I wasn't. First game I remember playing was Age of Empires, which certainly isn't very hardcore, but it's also not causal. From there, I went onto Pokemon Blue, Homeworld, Age of Empires 2, Tachyon: The Fringe and others.Racecarlock said:
Well if we leave the drama hat on the side for purposes of having an actual discussion then attitude is actually the defining pivot point.
A "casual" gamer has a near apathetic attitude towards games, while a "hardcore" gamer is all in with dedication.
Now before you get your torches and pitchforks out in both cases I am describing myself, in some games I just tune out and take a gentle stroll while in others I fucking study that shit, I go into ridiculous details to get that optimum gameplay.
And when you are trying to determine opinions with more weight I for one will listen to the guy who didn't just walk through games blind.
A "casual" gamer has a near apathetic attitude towards games, while a "hardcore" gamer is all in with dedication.
Now before you get your torches and pitchforks out in both cases I am describing myself, in some games I just tune out and take a gentle stroll while in others I fucking study that shit, I go into ridiculous details to get that optimum gameplay.
And when you are trying to determine opinions with more weight I for one will listen to the guy who didn't just walk through games blind.
While I agree with the first part I don't think tutorials have much to do with it. I think it's more along how the game rewards the player. Pokemon is an easy game but it doesn't have any tutorials, especially on EV and IV training. However you don't need to know that to play the game, you are rewarded by beating gyms and catching Pokemon. The tiny stat different is just extras for the people who want to dive into the series. With DMC4 you can play it with only the tutorial on easy-automatic, but you don't get to enjoy the combat. You have to know how to pull off stylish combos to feel rewarded and that takes skill.MetalMagpie said:
This is actually a very nice definition of hardcore v.s. casual games. I always wondered how some players were branded casual, while they basically sink more time in tending to their crops than I sink in exploring and reading every single book I come across in Skyrim.MetalMagpie said:
A hardcore gamer is someone who thinks that the best music ever recorded is game music and the best stories ever told are game stories. When not playing games his hobby is agreeing with viral marketers on game forums.
Are they into games a lot? Do they sink hours upon hours into them? Do they have knowledge of them gained through playing them so long that others may not have? They are a hardcore gamer.
Do they enjoy games? Do they play them occasinally like any other hobby? Do they enjoy playing them every now and then like they may watch a movie every now and then? They are a casual gamer.
The terms mean nothing. There is a lot of confusion on who to be angry at since "niche" game fans have been getting annoyed that developers are "Widening the audience" which pretty much means removing what made the game unique in the hopes that it appeals to more people even though they are shutting out their original fans.
This is why people are annoyed. Some people then end up blaming the "Casual" gamers who they feel the dev has betrayed them for. Even though it's not casual gamers so much as non-niche gamers.
Do they enjoy games? Do they play them occasinally like any other hobby? Do they enjoy playing them every now and then like they may watch a movie every now and then? They are a casual gamer.
The terms mean nothing. There is a lot of confusion on who to be angry at since "niche" game fans have been getting annoyed that developers are "Widening the audience" which pretty much means removing what made the game unique in the hopes that it appeals to more people even though they are shutting out their original fans.
This is why people are annoyed. Some people then end up blaming the "Casual" gamers who they feel the dev has betrayed them for. Even though it's not casual gamers so much as non-niche gamers.
I think it's largely the amount of Passion one has for a certain game that makes people want to qualify as a hardcore gamer.
They maximize performance by adjusting config-settings to match the computer's capabilities.
And they usually have better gear like game-pads, keyboards, headset and mice, to be able to make custom macros and adjust DPI settings on-the-fly.
Besides, it's all somewhat relative; A pro-Starcraft player might get his ass handed to him in a game of Quake3.
They maximize performance by adjusting config-settings to match the computer's capabilities.
And they usually have better gear like game-pads, keyboards, headset and mice, to be able to make custom macros and adjust DPI settings on-the-fly.
Besides, it's all somewhat relative; A pro-Starcraft player might get his ass handed to him in a game of Quake3.
In this thread:
-inflammatory OP, all with stereotypes, generalizations, accusations, insults and arm-waving
-Derailing conversations about who is a casual and why they suck/i am better
Seriously OP, please do not open this can of worms - nothing good will ever ever come out of it.
Besides, with the huge traffic this site has generated, who reads all of these posts and replies in a meaningful way to such a "troll" topic ?
Just because i am a "hardcore gamer" doesnt mean i look down on people, i would help them if they would ask - to a certain extent-.
-inflammatory OP, all with stereotypes, generalizations, accusations, insults and arm-waving
-Derailing conversations about who is a casual and why they suck/i am better
Seriously OP, please do not open this can of worms - nothing good will ever ever come out of it.
Besides, with the huge traffic this site has generated, who reads all of these posts and replies in a meaningful way to such a "troll" topic ?
Just because i am a "hardcore gamer" doesnt mean i look down on people, i would help them if they would ask - to a certain extent-.
I generally differentiate casual and 'hardcore' gamers by how they approach games and gaming in general.
Casual gamers generally just hit up a game, give it their best shot, then leave when they stop enjoying it to go do something else. I.E: Load up CoD or something and just run round shooting, not really trying but giving it a good go, then getting not enjoying the game 'cause they got killed a lot and didn't get to do much, so move on.
'Hardcore' gamers tend to approach games more seriously. Not so much as a "I'll go on and give it my best shot" sort of thing, but as a "I'm playing to win" sort of thing. Didn't like what happened that match 'cause you didn't do too well? Give it another round and get better. In the CoD example above, go into the match focused, and trying to win, losing anyway and not enjoying it, but going in again to get better and win.
You can be 'Hardcore' for some games and casual for others, and you can be in between too.
That is, of course, if you give any credence at all to this whole 'Hardcore/Casual' thing, which really you shouldn't. Everyone is a gamer, and how they game, what they play and how good they are at that is irrelevant to be quite honest.
Casual gamers generally just hit up a game, give it their best shot, then leave when they stop enjoying it to go do something else. I.E: Load up CoD or something and just run round shooting, not really trying but giving it a good go, then getting not enjoying the game 'cause they got killed a lot and didn't get to do much, so move on.
'Hardcore' gamers tend to approach games more seriously. Not so much as a "I'll go on and give it my best shot" sort of thing, but as a "I'm playing to win" sort of thing. Didn't like what happened that match 'cause you didn't do too well? Give it another round and get better. In the CoD example above, go into the match focused, and trying to win, losing anyway and not enjoying it, but going in again to get better and win.
You can be 'Hardcore' for some games and casual for others, and you can be in between too.
That is, of course, if you give any credence at all to this whole 'Hardcore/Casual' thing, which really you shouldn't. Everyone is a gamer, and how they game, what they play and how good they are at that is irrelevant to be quite honest.
Actually, I think it's exactly that.Racecarlock said:
Although I think the distinction in general is stupid and arbitrary. If I have a high K/D in a shooter where K/D actually matters, it doesn't mean I can't enjoy World of Goo or Tetris. If I'm new to vidya gaems, it doesn't mean I can't learn how to play games by playing a complex one.
The reason I'm not fond of that definition is that it's far more subjective. Games - by definition - always require some level of skill. So how difficult does a game need to be in order to be a hardcore title?TehCookie said:
It also means you have to classify games like Tetris, Peggle, Bejeweled, etc. as hardcore titles. In fact, they're more hardcore than DMC4! DMC4 has an "easy" option to help a less-skilled player get to the end (and see all the pretty cinematics). In most Tetris-style games, either you're skilful enough to get through all the levels or you aren't!
That's one of the reasons I like this definition. Time spent playing games is certainly not a helpful measure. My sister can spend entire days playing The Sims 3, but she doesn't classify herself as a gamer, let alone a hardcore one.Archl said: