What the Hell, Gearbox?

[Crash486]

Why is it every fps developer these days feels the need to incorporate self-regenerating health and the 2 weapon arsenal. Why won't these mechanics die? What the hell was wrong with health packs? Why do they feel to the need to force me to carry only 2 weapons at a time? What's the point of this mechanic, and don't tell me realism.

I assumed Duke Nukem Forever would pay homage to the forgotten, arcadey, over-the-top first person shooters of the past. I was looking forward to climbing up a ladder backwards, holding an rpg, kicking with both legs at the same time. I was looking forward to experimenting with cool weapons on my own terms. But no, it's just another generic, brown, halo clone with a shrink ray. Thanks gearbox.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Yup.

The problem with this system is that the main selling point Duke has is being an 'old school' shooter, yet it's conforming to current mechanics which, when placed next to other games using the same mechanics, just show how mediocre it is in comparison.

The demo was very poor. I hope the full game build is a lot better.

And Gearbox - if you're selling a character on being an invincible bad-ass, don't have him die in 2-3 hits. It makes the game slow paced.

 

[TheIronRuler]

Why is it every fps developer these days feels the need to incorporate self-regenerating health and the 2 weapon arsenal. Why won't these mechanics die? What the hell was wrong with health packs? Why do they feel to the need to force me to carry only 2 weapons at a time? What's the point of this mechanic, and don't tell me realism.

I assumed Duke Nukem Forever would pay homage to the forgotten, arcadey, over-the-top first person shooters of the past. I was looking forward to climbing up a ladder backwards, holding an rpg, kicking with both legs at the same time. I was looking forward to experimenting with cool weapons on my own terms. But no, it's just another generic, brown, halo clone with a shrink ray. Thanks gearbox.

If you're that itching for a gaming orgasm, replay Half-Life 2. It has way too many weapons and health packs.
They're doing it because these things evolved FPS play, and going back is insane, unless you're Valve.

 

[Alien Mole]

Yup.

The problem with this system is that the main selling point Duke has is being an 'old school' shooter, yet it's conforming to current mechanics which, when placed next to other games using the same mechanics, just show how mediocre it is in comparison.

The demo was very poor. I hope the full game build is a lot better.

With only about a week between demo and full game release? I honestly don't see it happening. If Gearbox cares they might listen to fan feedback and tweak a few things, but how could the demo be that different from the finished product?

Unless they're pulling a switcheroo the likes of which hasn't been seen since the Raiden/Snake thing, of course. Right after the demo segment Duke says 'bugger that' and suddenly starts lugging around a small armoury. Because that's totally going to happen.

 

[Dogstile]

The point of the mechanic is to give you choice making. Call it bad reasoning if you want, but that's the official "reason".

But its ok, its a shooter with a two weapon system. Everyone shout halo clone like its a bad thing, I know how hard people hate on halo nowadays for some insane reason.

Edit: I don't actually care for your reasoning, I still think its stupid to hate on Dukes system because its gone in a different direction. Deal with it and stop quoting me, i've not responded in 3 pages and i'm not going to start now.

 

[veloper]

Why is it every fps developer these days feels the need to incorporate self-regenerating health and the 2 weapon arsenal. Why won't these mechanics die? What the hell was wrong with health packs? Why do they feel to the need to force me to carry only 2 weapons at a time? What's the point of this mechanic, and don't tell me realism.

I assumed Duke Nukem Forever would pay homage to the forgotten, arcadey, over-the-top first person shooters of the past. I was looking forward to climbing up a ladder backwards, holding an rpg, kicking with both legs at the same time. I was looking forward to experimenting with cool weapons on my own terms. But no, it's just another generic, brown, halo clone with a shrink ray. Thanks gearbox.

If you're that itching for a gaming orgasm, replay Half-Life 2. It has way too many weapons and health packs.
They're doing it because these things evolved FPS play, and going back is insane, unless you're Valve.

Recommend Serious Sam instead. Or painkiller.
That's the real old school done right.

OT: I suppose it would be trivial for gearbox to assign number keys to the weapons, remove the 2W limit and take, say -50% of all ammo and weapon drops.

 

[BlastedTheWorm]

Blame 3D Realms, not Gearbox. Gearbox have had Duke for a few months, 3D Realms have been working on it for 14 years.

 

[Alien Mole]

Unless they're pulling a switcheroo the likes of which hasn't been seen since the Raiden/Snake thing, of course. Right after the demo segment Duke says 'bugger that' and suddenly starts lugging around a small armoury. Because that's totally going to happen.

I could actually see that happening, if only on the grounds that it would be exactly the sort of humor that this series would go for.

So could I, actually. Just because it's Duke it's merely unlikely instead of impossible. They'd have had to get their PR and advertising divisions pretty damn drunk to get an idea like this past them, but stranger things have happened, I suppose. Still, the safe money's on the game just not being that great.

 

[Flames66]

I like health packs, but I also like the 2 weapon system. I would like it to be more like L4D, but with the ability to have 2 main weapons, a side arm and melee.

 

[SovietPanda]

i wouldnt hold out any hopes at all of any re-working for the full game, the demo was only dropped as a sorry for pushing the release date back again wasn't it... as in "we're not looking for feedback we just want to keep you guys happy while you wait"

 

[TheIronRuler]

...

...

Recommend Serious Sam instead. Or painkiller.
That's the real old school done right.

OT: I suppose it would be trivial for gearbox to assign number keys to the weapons, remove the 2W limit and take, say -50% of all ammo and weapon drops.

I recommend Serious Sam too.
I had great mindless fun with it.
Never diod get to play Painkiller, so I can't tell if it's as brilliant as Yahtzee described.

 

[Lacsapix]

Its not like you bumb into a wall with a sign saying "REALIZIM, ITZ FORBIDDEN ZU HAVE FUN HERE" its still fun just not in that way.

 

[CCountZero]

Why [does all games] incorporate self-regenerating health?...
...What the hell was wrong with health packs?

Well. The simple answer is that it's easier for the developers.
With the health pack system, they had to hide the stuff in nooks and crannies, or secret rooms and whatnot. That all takes extra time.
It also means that they always know how much health the player has for an encounter, which means they can scale it accordingly.

It makes things easier for the developers, and it makes it easier for the player. Whether the latter is a good thing is subjective for us all.

Personally, I prefer not having either, but if I really do need to survive three rounds, at least make it a "luck-based" system instead. Either health system is ludicrous, but the regen-system especially takes away a vital gameplay management factor.

Why do they feel to the need to force me to carry only 2 weapons at a time?
What's the point of this mechanic, and don't tell me realism.

.

Lot of games are doing it these days because MoH did it, followed by CoD, and then Halo.
And it works in those games, no complaints.

But that doesn't mean it a universal best-system-ever kind of deal.

I've never seen a system that I could describe as "realistic", but I have seen some that came closer than others, most notably the system from the old Hidden & Dangerous series, which both incorporated size-based slots and weight limitations, and restricted your movement according to weight too.

However, no "realistic" system would fit into the world of the Duke, as it's not bloody well supposed to be realistic in any way.

Moreover, taking the Duke name, and making a game that's nothing like Duke at all, is a dick-move.
If you can't make the original work in a modern world, then don't bloody well revive it.

I assumed Duke Nukem Forever would pay homage to the forgotten, arcadey, over-the-top first person shooters of the past. I was looking forward to climbing up a ladder backwards, holding an rpg, kicking with both legs at the same time. I was looking forward to experimenting with cool weapons on my own terms.
But no, it's just another generic, brown, halo clone with a shrink ray.
Thanks gearbox.

Couldn't agree more.
I'm the kind of no-lifer who buys 18 games per year, but even I wouldn't fork over cash for this piece of backstabbing, falsely-advertised junk.
Same on you Mr. Pitchford

 

[Truly-A-Lie]

With only about a week between demo and full game release? I honestly don't see it happening. If Gearbox cares they might listen to fan feedback and tweak a few things, but how could the demo be that different from the finished product?

The demo isn't a recent demo, it's the same demo from the PAX reveal. So there's been a lot of time in between really, though I agree it's unlikely we'll see much change.

 

[crimsonshrouds]

i'm tired of "Realism" in games

Edit: oddly enough borderlands did a weapon system better where you mapped up to four weapons and held the rest. That game was by gearbox.

 

[CCountZero]

The point of the mechanic is to give you choice making. Call it bad reasoning if you want, but that's the official "reason".

But its ok, its a shooter with a two weapon system. Everyone shout halo clone like its a bad thing, I know how hard people hate on halo nowadays for some insane reason.

Nobody is saying that the two-weapon system doesn't work in some games. 'cus it does.

You're saying that it forces the player to choose between different weapons, which alters which combat abilities the player will have in a given situation, and that can be a great thing, I agree.

But, it does not fit within a Duke Nukem game.

It's not what the game is about.

 

[Dogstile]

The point of the mechanic is to give you choice making. Call it bad reasoning if you want, but that's the official "reason".

But its ok, its a shooter with a two weapon system. Everyone shout halo clone like its a bad thing, I know how hard people hate on halo nowadays for some insane reason.

Nobody is saying that the two-weapon system doesn't work in some games. 'cus it does.

You're saying that it forces the player to choose between different weapons, which alters which combat abilities the player will have in a given situation, and that can be a great thing, I agree.

But, it does not fit within a Duke Nukem game.

It's not what the game is about.

Correction, its not what /you/ think the game is about.

People should note this, gearbox did not make DNF, they took what 3drealms made and shoved it all together, and polished it. I'm assuming that means 3Drealms made the choice to give him two weapons. Its not the argument itself that irks me, its more who the blame is aimed it.

 

[MercurySteam]

And Gearbox - if you're selling a character on being an invincible bad-ass, don't have him die in 2-3 hits.

Thank God, I thought I was the only one having this problem. If the regen delay was less or the health bar was longer I wouldn't need to switch down to easy (or baby's first vagina adventure, as Yahtzee would call it) at the second part of the demo.