What Was What in Avengers

[GeorgW]

I really excited about Thanos and the gauntlet, though I feel that the plethora of characters that everyone wants introduced would be a bit too cluttered. Sure it's true to the comics, but I would like to see a new interpretation of the story. I definitely want more characters, Mistress of death for example would be very interesting to see them adapt to live action. And I think we all want Doc Strange. I guess I just don't want to wait too long for the next Avengers movie.

 

[irishda]

The film was stink because it was badly done, The concept is sound. The comic was Gladiator meets Spartacus with Hulk and monsters. If they did it right it could be amazing. My point is it's all about who does it and how well they do it. They pulled off the Avengers when ten years ago no one said it could be done. Anything is possible if done right.

I dunno why people keep saying that. I blame MovieBob. I don't think anyone's ever said "You can't do an Avengers movie." Mostly because no one really cared about comic book movies that weren't called Batman or Superman before 2001.

The point isn't that they CAN'T do it, it's whether or not people will really care. If you keep pushing the heroes into more and more ridiculous circumstances, you risk running into the "Batman and Robin" catch, wherein the film becomes a campy piece of crap reminiscent of the silver age of comics. Comics do a lot of things well, but keeping things (from characters to costumes to settings to premises, everything) grounded is not one of them.

 

[MasterSplinter]

I know so little of comics it kind of shames me really.

 

[Therumancer]

Question now is, what is Thanos' movie history going to be? I wouldn't think they'll be content to just leave him as a generic big bad out to take over the galaxy, but at the same time I don't think Marvel is going to toss Death with breasts up on screen.

Well, having Death be a hot girl wouldn't be totally out of line. DC did something similar. It should also be noted that Death really doesn't seem to be 'into' Thanos the same way he is obsessed with her, though they do work together. Death being kind of a neutral prescence compared to Thanos' malevolence.

That said Thanos is a bad choice for a villain because to really DO the character well you need to get into his head in a way that I don't think movies are capable of. What's more as a lynchpin they need to introduce Adam Warlock as the guy who actually represents his weak spot for... reasons I won't go into but are kind of predictable.

Simply put Thanos is a villain who by definition can never, ever, win. He's got the power, but the thing is that psycologically he wants to lose, he wants people to stop him, he intentionally sabotages himself and leaves blind spots. It took years to really explain this in the comics, and the entire "Infinity Gauntlet Saga" revolved around that premise, and it was that reveal along with how it had been forecast all along was one of the things that made the story such a classic. Through the entire thing you pretty much had Adam Warlock sitting around calmly watching heroes get pwned, and then galactic entities (including Eternity and the Celestrials) lose. The Celestrials even thowing planets at Thanos at one time. When it's over Warlock and Thanos have a big conversation on that point, and the basic conclusion is that it doesn't matter what he tries, he'll just lose again.

Without that there is no point to Thanos, that's the entire character in a nutshell.

Please note Adam Warlock, and Warlock (The alien from The New Mutants) are differant, the latter being better known for some reason.

I don't think a movie can really carry the whole "Emo kid's giant bid for attention because nobody loved him" on a cosmic scale, it just takes way too much build up.

The thing is, that element to thanos was relly only present in that one story arc, and to me at least, felt like an attempt to not only explain how mortals could conceivably beat the all knowing Thanos in that and other occasions, but others in the past that acheived similar stature (Dr. Doom with the beyonder's powers, or the rEd Skull with the cosimic cube). It's a great idea, but let's acknowledge that it was put in to explain how villans could be such dumbasses at times.

And honestly I think Thanos is just coming for the gem's purposes: 1) to have a highly powered maguffin to tie the movies together and elevate the threat of less epic villans, and 2) the raw fun and power a filmmaker can have with the first 3 issues of the infinity gauntlet (half the world's popularion vanishing + big devistating earthquake). Where the gems go, Thanos usually follows.

Hmmm, not sure if I agree, as Thanos has always had that problem, it's how they beat him before The Infinity Gauntlet as well, it's just that the end of Infinity Gauntlet is where they spelled it out, it's also been his recurring weakness through his apperances.

You remove that from the character and really Thanos just becomes another fairly two dimensional building who almost destroys the universe and gets beaten down in the 11th hour. There is no real point to using him otherwise, as it's that achilles heel that makes him stand out more than anything.

Power level wise though, Thanos generally has to keep a fairly low profile as he's powerful but not THAT powerful. Despite being loosely based on Darkseid, he's not really on that level. Drax The Destroyer and various Eternals and cosmic beings have very similar power levels, which is one of the reasons why he spends so much time plotting and coming out at the end to get a gem or whatever, oftentimes from a position where the good guys can't fight him at their best, and conveinently most of the characters who could handle him easily are typically somewhere else until he's on the verge of winning.

The Infinity Gauntlet was a cool story, but largely because the entire point of it was that the heroes were going to "lose" and the bad guy was effectively going to defeat himself. The fact that they all probably could have sat around having tea and things would have worked themselves out is actually kind of clever.

Admittedly though the whole "unbeatable bad guy who defeats themself" is a marvel staple. I mean we did see it with Doom/Beyonder, and of course with Korvac. In the case of Doom however it can be debatale at the end because he didn't actually absorb ALL of the Beyonder's power and there was a trickle of it working intentionally to undermine him. If could be argued as to whether Doom actually defeated himself for the seemingly obvious reasons (ie he couldbn't control the power) of if he was simply defeated by The Beyonder due to not getting all of the power during his grab. We'll never know if he would have mastered it without that trickle screwing with him.

 

[Phuctifyno]

Anyone with a SNES kicking around should check out War Of The Gems. It's a pretty decent beat-em-up that touches on this material. You can play as Hulk, Cap, Iron Man, Wolverine, or Spider-man, and you can use each gem's benefits as you find them.

If Marvel's really considering delving into the weirder cosmic stuff for movies.... a really well-done, psychadelic, metaphysical Silver Surfer is what we need. Earth not included.

 

[annoyinglizardvoice]

Whilst I seriously enjoyed the movie, I'm a little concerned about what they're going to do for the next lot of heroes if Marvel is aiming to show more of the cosmic stuff. I've always found superheroes in outer-space sci-fi settings felt a little redundant as everyone has the sort of tech to give them odd advantages.
Not sure about Thanos as the next big villain. He could be used for some interesting set-pieces, but I find him a bit over-blown as a character.
Hopefully the mention of mystical characters will include Dr Strange.

 

[SomebodyNowhere]

Loved seeing Thanos in the movie and the line about courting death only made me love it more.

 

[Evil Smurf]

watching the film makes me want to read the comics

 

[Darth_Payn]

Thanos. Infinity gauntlet. HELL AND YEAH!!! Marvel Movies, please take my money!

 

[Darth_Payn]

watching the film makes me want to read the comics

Yep, that's the idea. Ingenious, no?

 

[Ghonzor]

Your Darkseid hyperlink is a bit messed up Bob.

I had been wondering what the Avengers 2 would be about (as it's inevitable that there will be one by now). I completely forgot about the Infinity Gauntlet showing up...despite seeing it in one of your very own articles. So that was very welcome.

Overall the entire movie just made me feel like a kid again. Seeing all of the comics of my childhood on the big screen was indescribable

 

[MB202]

The stuff with Thanos got a little too "out there" for me to really grasp and understand, but seriously, my mind was blown (for, like, the millionth time during the movie) when I actually saw Thanos during the end credits!

 

[Monty McDougal]

Damn, I thought that was a krull at the end, not Thanos.

 

[ecoho]

What Was What in Avengers

MovieBob gives you the nitty gritty on the upcoming release The Avengers.

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I really really hope this means I get an Adam Warlock movie

Ant Man, The Vision, Jack of Hearts, Ms. Marvel, and the Wasp movies would be good too

to be fair an Ant Man movie would have wasp in it.

 

[Dudeman325]

It should also be noted that Death really doesn't seem to be 'into' Thanos the same way he is obsessed with her, though they do work together. Death being kind of a neutral prescence compared to Thanos' malevolence.

Plus, Death totally has the hots for Deadpool (and who can blame her?).

Off topic: I know its a bit late, but what the hell were the writers thinking when they put "Wade" in that X-Men movie? They took away the mouth from the "Merc with a Mouth!"

 

[empirialtank]

So the blue gem is the mind gem, right? I don't suppose that would be used for mind control would it? You know like what Loki was doing an awful lot of with that great big blue glowing gem in the middle of his staff.

I don't suppose that's going to be coincidence now is it?

On the subject, who got to keep the staff at the end of the movie? Did Thor take it home with him or does Shield still have it?

 

[ritchards]

While I am a big fan of the Infinity Gauntlet arc, dealing with Adam Warlock is going to completely change it (unless they want to have a whole 'nuther movie dealing with him, the simpliest path will be to get rid of him).

 

[LogicNProportion]

So the blue gem is the mind gem, right? I don't suppose that would be used for mind control would it? You know like what Loki was doing an awful lot of with that great big blue glowing gem in the middle of his staff.

I don't suppose that's going to be coincidence now is it?

On the subject, who got to keep the staff at the end of the movie? Did Thor take it home with him or does Shield still have it?

O_O

I...I-I...I love you.

 

[Therumancer]

It should also be noted that Death really doesn't seem to be 'into' Thanos the same way he is obsessed with her, though they do work together. Death being kind of a neutral prescence compared to Thanos' malevolence.

Plus, Death totally has the hots for Deadpool (and who can blame her?).

Off topic: I know its a bit late, but what the hell were the writers thinking when they put "Wade" in that X-Men movie? They took away the mouth from the "Merc with a Mouth!"

Yes, I couldn't get that one either. Personally I think the logic was probably just that Deadpool was a popular character loosely connected to Wolverine, so they threw him in expecting people to just go with it, underestimating his fan base, and also totally misunderstanding the character and what makes it tick.

Deadpool is a character that couldn't be done in the movies, since half the point of him is that his "insanity" causes him to break the fourth wall to make observations that happen to be true from the perspective of the RL reader. Even with "The Avengers" there isn't enough continuity to do that.

That said, I'm still waiting for Squirrel Girl to kick Death's butt.