What's Makes A Man/Woman?

JUMBO PALACE

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Hawki said:
http://www.shavemagazine.com/women/10-Psychological-Differences-Between-Men-and-Women

https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html

There's that for starters.

Social constructs aside, there's plenty of psychological differences between men and women. But, basically, my view is that "a man/woman should be able to do as they please (bar causing harm to others), and while certain interests/activities/careers will appeal more to one gender than the other, either gender should be able to do as they will." So, for instance, stands to reason there'll be more male than female soldiers, or more female nurses than male nurses, but there should be no shame or barrier to anyone in doing what they want to do. And I say this as a hetrosexual male who had a phase of collecting skydancer and sailor moon dolls as a kid alongside other action figures, and likes MLP, while also loving stuff like James Bond.
I've never see a /thread worthy post so fast.

There are some biological differences whether people want to admit it or not, and there is nothing wrong with that. I personally think difference in the sexes should be at least accepted and ideally celebrated. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that some professions, interests, or hobbies might be more widely liked by one sex or another. That being said, people should be free to express themselves in any way that want without fear of retribution regardless of their sex or gender.

I might be a 215 pound power lifter who likes cars, computers, and D&D, but I also really enjoy bubble baths and receiving anal sex from women. That doesn't make me less of a man.
 

Sigmund Av Volsung

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Gender is a social construct.
Sex is biologically conditioned by genes and hormones gradually.

One may inform the other, but gender never determines hormone generation. The inverse holds true though, so therefore it's another abstraction.

I was raised by a (comparitively, to the West) very conservative family and I've never been challenged in my own assertion as a stable individual by my elders.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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Ehm...if they bleed, theyre a man/woman. If not, they're a rock or a hallucination. Unless you hallucinate them bleeding, then I guess they are promoted to begin 'the trials.'

What makes, or is an Alpha 2.0? That's been bugging me for a while. Actually, that's probably better off being made a separate thread instead of derailing this one.
 

astrav1

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KissingSunlight said:
I am going to attempt to crowdsource my existential crisis.

If you don't know, I recently accepted that I was transgender. Right now, I am figuring out I am just simply gender nonconforming or I am a woman in a man's body.

A question came to me recently that I do not have an answer to. What's the difference between a man and a woman? Besides, their physical differences. Is there anything really different between the genders? The only differences I can think of are just social construct that society just places on both genders.

So, please help me. I am genuinely curious what other people opinions about the differences of each gender. Maybe this will help me.
It really does not matter, but I'll give some advice anyway as far as being trans goes. Don't chop anything off, don't get anything surgically put in. If you want to go the way of horomones for the sake of looking and sounding more feminine then go for it if it is really super important to you. I'm sure you know this but there will be a lot of people who don't agree with you on the whole gender thing, so as far as romance goes, be open as possible; if they won't date you because you're trans, it wasn't meant to be. Lastly, just be yourself, don't seek to perform because you'll just look foolish, if your voice isn't high and you have thick facial hair, who cares? It doesn't make you less than you are, after all, you should be a person and individual first, and transness should just be a part of how you are, like having brown hair. I think I covered everything but I have a question for you.

How do you know you feel this way about gender, what made you confirm that you are trans? Because I really don't understand any of it.
 

kitsunefather

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I recently had a friend realize/decide that he felt he should transition. This has caused me to do a bit of deeper reading in the subject, to be as helpful as I can to someone that is essentially a part of my family.

The main difference is in neurological reactions to biochemistry; namely, testosterone and estrogen.

Brains are wired slightly differently based on gender, but there is a good deal of science to suggest that the wiring doesn't always match the pixelated parts. There's also a strong correlation between depression and isolation and the desire to transition in some (a way of shedding the imperfect "former self" for a conceptually "better" one). The danger lies in the cause of the urge to transition.

For people wired to favor one hormone (testosterone for the majority of male births, estrogen for the majority of female births), the increase of the other involved in hormone therapy can cause a worsening of depression and feelings of "wrongness" and isolation; this is likely a part of the cause of many suicides in the trans community.

For people wired to favor the other hormone than is typical for their sex, the hormone therapy typically causes a softening of depression symptoms (as hormone levels normalize) though a lifetime of living with depression tends to mean that it never fully goes away.

This is not, of course, including the population of people who use "transitioning" as a way to feel special (hence the quotation marks in this case), but do not suffer any form of actual identity crisis. This is also the group chiefly responsible for outsiders being unable to take the problem seriously.

The following is not intended as an insult, or to be in any way dismissive of the experiences of transitioning people.

Like any mental issue (depression, schizophrenia, anxiety), the difference between the two lies in chemistry. If what you are going through is biologic in origin, then hormone and chemical treatment will greatly help the problem over time. If what you are going on is the result of trauma, life experience, or stresses, then what you need is someone to talk to and to work through what is leading you to this point; all chemicals are going to do are make you feel strange and alien to yourself.

--Personal Views--
Personally, I long for the days where someone can 3D print themselves a new meat puppet to spec and download themselves into it. I look at sex reassignment surgery as an extreme form of body modification; if you want it do it. To be fair, I've got much the same opinion on anything someone does with their own body. But, like with any permanent modification, I suggest you make sure it's what you actually want through talking to those you trust, those who love you, and people trained in what it takes to do the modification, as well as what kind of after care you may need.

My mom spent a lifetime moving my family around the country. She abandoned friends, family, and connections, and did so for the rest of us, in what she realized in her latter years was an attempt to run away from herself. Any place she could see herself as a part of became toxic to her, until she understood that it wasn't the place, it was her own self-loathing and depression. 5 years later, I'm still trying to find her family, to inform them of her suicide.

I say this to give you an idea of where I'm coming from.

Make sure what you want is the destination, not simply to get away from where you are. Because no matter what you decide in the end, you're still going to be you.
 

Vendor-Lazarus

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kitsunefather said:
courteous and well meaning -snip-
Your post moved me to tears. You seem to be a great friend and to look honestly and objectively on matters, while still remaining non-judgemental and polite.
I also agree with your personal views on transhumanism and remain hopeful for the future.
Thank you for sharing your story, gained personally through the long road taken, and I am sorry for your loss.

Wishing you well / Vendor-Lazarus
 

KissingSunlight

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Thank you for the responses so far.

McMarbles said:
You do not need our or anyone else's approval.
I wasn't asking for anyone's approval. I just wanted opinions on a question that has stumped me.

Souplex said:
1. Gender is a social construct.
2. You do not feel like you are a man.
3. If woman is a social construct, do you feel like it?
That's a good question. The answer is "Yes". One thing I have done is to look back in the past and realized all the different things I had gravitated to that was feminine. Then I scolded myself for doing it and stopped doing it.

astrav1 said:
How do you know you feel this way about gender, what made you confirm that you are trans? Because I really don't understand any of it.
There was a post I made over a year ago. I stated I don't understand the issue of being transgender. However. I don't think they are wrong, because I don't understand. Since I have accepted that I am not the guy who I thought I was. I realized that I was making myself miserable trying to conform to that construct. I still don't understand the why's and the how's. I am just listening to what makes me feel more like myself. Instead of what "society" tells me to do. I wished I had something more concrete and logical to explain what I am dealing with now to help me and other people understand.
 

demoman_chaos

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KissingSunlight said:
I am genuinely curious what other people opinions about the differences of each gender. Maybe this will help me.
Quite a lot. Humans are a sexually dimorphic species. That means men/women are quite different, and this stems from them have different roles in the family which compliment each other to make a greater whole that the separate parts.

Physically men are generally taller, shoulders are broader, they have about 50% more upper body strength, 30% more lower body strength, and are all around simply more physically capable. Men mentally are more object focused (studies with babies show the male babies spent more time looking at objects while the females looked more at faces) and are better at physical work and tasks "outside the camp" while women are far better in terms of the social hierarchy and tending to issues "In the camp." The "Social constructs" are embedded in our DNA and exist for a very good reason.

One thing you need to understand though, you will never be a woman. No matter how much surgery you have you will never have a womb, never have eggs, never have a period, never get pregnant, your physical body will still be male, and even if you spend millions on cosmetic surgery to get all of the above your DNA will still read Male. Gender is genetic, it is physical, and it is mental. Don't delude yourself into thinking you will ever be a true woman, because you genuinely can't.

Bear all that in mind, because a lot of people refuse to acknowledge this fact. However, if you take the time to factor in all of the above and truly spend the time you HAVE to for something this major and still feel like you are in the <0.03% of people (assuming you are a Yank and accepting the "1 million trans" stat I saw somewhere at face value) who are truly Trans, do what your heart tells you.
 

McElroy

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JUMBO PALACE said:
I also really enjoy receiving anal sex from women. That doesn't make me less of a man.
Yet you lift to compensate for that. But sure, we believe you. :^)
 

09philj

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demoman_chaos said:
KissingSunlight said:
I am genuinely curious what other people opinions about the differences of each gender. Maybe this will help me.
Quite a lot. Humans are a sexually dimorphic species. That means men/women are quite different, and this stems from them have different roles in the family which compliment each other to make a greater whole that the separate parts.

Physically men are generally taller, shoulders are broader, they have about 50% more upper body strength, 30% more lower body strength, and are all around simply more physically capable. Men mentally are more object focused (studies with babies show the male babies spent more time looking at objects while the females looked more at faces) and are better at physical work and tasks "outside the camp" while women are far better in terms of the social hierarchy and tending to issues "In the camp." The "Social constructs" are embedded in our DNA and exist for a very good reason.

One thing you need to understand though, you will never be a woman. No matter how much surgery you have you will never have a womb, never have eggs, never have a period, never get pregnant, your physical body will still be male, and even if you spend millions on cosmetic surgery to get all of the above your DNA will still read Male. Gender is genetic, it is physical, and it is mental. Don't delude yourself into thinking you will ever be a true woman, because you genuinely can't.

Bear all that in mind, because a lot of people refuse to acknowledge this fact. However, if you take the time to factor in all of the above and truly spend the time you HAVE to for something this major and still feel like you are in the <0.03% of people (assuming you are a Yank and accepting the "1 million trans" stat I saw somewhere at face value) who are truly Trans, do what your heart tells you.
Ah genetics, genetics. So fascinating, so complex, so imperfect. Within every cell lies all the information needed to create a being that is largely, if not entirely, unlike you. Conception is not the end point in the creation of a human being. It's the start of a long and messy process, filled with opportunities for things to drastically deviate from what their DNA says they should be. In this particular case, of interest to us is precisely how a person comes to acquire a male reproductive system, or lack thereof, and a generally masculine brain to go with it. Neither of these things develop without an external trigger, which comes in the a mixture of a few different androgenic hormones which are released to every foetus in the uterus. In normal development, a foetus with XX chromosomes will not be sensitive to the hormones and develop a female reproductive system, and all the other relevant physical traits, and a generally feminine brain. A foetus with XY chromosomes, on the other hand, will be sensitive to the hormones and will get a male reproductive system and brain. This is, of course, merely an idealised view of development. In practice, a small minority of foetuses, for one reason or another, often an abnormal X or Y chromosome, don't respond to a hormone they should, or do respond to a hormone they shouldn't. This goes some way to explaining why some people are trans (and intersex), although it's only a factor, and there are many other things both in and out of the womb that can influence a person's identity. Talking about the human brain in terms of genetics is reductive and unhelpful, as is any such notion of a "true" man or woman. There is more to being a man or woman than being male or female.
 

Trunkage

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inu-kun said:
I don't get it, if there are "male" brains and "female" brains how is gender a "social construct"? It seems to completely negate the idea as there's a very visible difference.

Also, there are more male soldiers in combat roles due to women are far less fit physically to the role and in case of a barrier to entry it is obvious there should be one (and in any other job that can result in life or death).

Anyways, it's pretty much imposible to define a difference considering you can't get both experiences, like asking "how would you have been if you were born with different dominant arm?".
So there are some other physical difference in the brain like the Corpus Callosum which is way bigger in a woman. People have attribute multitasking and social skills to this.
There have also been studies on infants and toy selection. They prefer primary colours and tend not to engage with pink. Its only later that girls pick this up. This may be an example social construction (its in tiny humans so there is leeway here because they cant describe things.)
I work with kids. When people say, 'males prefer cars' etc. don't go around assuming that boys only like 'boys toys.' Its more like just over 50% to 2/3 of the time the spend on 'boys toys.' Its a clear preference but not necessarily dominate.
 

demoman_chaos

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09philj said:
Ah genetics, genetics. So fascinating, so complex, so imperfect. Within every cell lies all the information needed to create a being that is largely, if not entirely, unlike you. Conception is not the end point in the creation of a human being. It's the start of a long and messy process, filled with opportunities for things to drastically deviate from what their DNA says they should be. In this particular case, of interest to us is precisely how a person comes to acquire a male reproductive system, or lack thereof, and a generally masculine brain to go with it. Neither of these things develop without an external trigger, which comes in the a mixture of a few different androgenic hormones which are released to every foetus in the uterus. In normal development, a foetus with XX chromosomes will not be sensitive to the hormones and develop a female reproductive system, and all the other relevant physical traits, and a generally feminine brain. A fetus with XY chromosomes, on the other hand, will be sensitive to the hormones and will get a male reproductive system and brain. This is, of course, merely an idealised view of development. In practice, a small minority of foetuses, for one reason or another, often an abnormal X or Y chromosome, don't respond to a hormone they should, or do respond to a hormone they shouldn't. This goes some way to explaining why some people are trans (and intersex), although it's only a factor, and there are many other things both in and out of the womb that can influence a person's identity. Talking about the human brain in terms of genetics is reductive and unhelpful, as is any such notion of a "true" man or woman. There is more to being a man or woman than being male or female.
No doubt genetics is a complex subject, and often plays a large role in sexuality as well as transgenderism (though upbringing also plays a huge factor in the development of the brain, fetishes often have roots in childhood experiences). The brain is a curious thing, but mental issues are not physical ones (While the brain is entirely physical, mental and physical health are separate issues). Physically and genetically speaking someone born male is and always will be male (unless they start REALLY young, at which point they may have the physical build of a woman but will still be genetically male and won't develop female reproductive organs no matter how soon after birth you start treatments).

That is the main point I want to make and that so many people refuse to accept. People should be polite and refer to the person as the other gender (Unless they are a bitchy **** about it, at which point I'm calling them their birth gender out of spite), but the transgender person needs to bear in mind that they are and will always be their birth gender.
 

The Lunatic

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It's difficult to say.

We know that DNA and genetics certainly informs it, and that DNA defines one's sex, but, sex isn't the same as gender. So, the reality is, we don't really know the link between genetics and gender. We know male and females have different brains, and we can theories that this may lead to differences in how one acts, thinks, and all that sort of thing. So, we could argue that this defines gender.

Then we get to another problem. Okay, if we say that Gender has a biological component, we can instead say that Gender roles are s social construct. And... That's largely correct. Certainly there's trends in society, and those trends are seemingly informed by males and females being dimorphic and therefore better suited to specific tasks, but, there's lots of cases where they aren't. (At this point, I'll say that Gender is self-identity, where as gender-roles are how society sees you, but, if somebody else has a definition, chip in.)

So, we're left with what's mostly a mine field when it comes to trying to change anything within that.

Gender roles are largely due to society and as such are probably a social construct, however, we have to also accept that these exist due to innate differences in men and women due to sexual dimorphism. So, in that, you're up against the easiest battle. Western society has generally accepted the idea that some people can have different gender roles, regardless of their sex.

Gender likely has a biological component, as our brains are different based on our sex. And this difference probably leads to different ways of thinking, feeling and so on, which will have an effect on how you self-identify, so, one could argue that in trying to change it, you're battling biology by trying to change your identity, and this is probably the hardest battle, as there's no enemy, you're up against yourself, and your body.


Sex is fixed and cannot be changed, it's purely biological, so, there's no battle to be had here.

Usually it comes down to a couple of catch 22s:

If gender has no biological component, why are you trying to change your physical attributes?

If gender has biological components, and those are defined in something that cannot change, is changing what you can enough?

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone has the answer to that, and it's one you have to struggle with and try to overcome yourself.
 

astrav1

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KissingSunlight said:
Thank you for the responses so far.



astrav1 said:
How do you know you feel this way about gender, what made you confirm that you are trans? Because I really don't understand any of it.
There was a post I made over a year ago. I stated I don't understand the issue of being transgender. However. I don't think they are wrong, because I don't understand. Since I have accepted that I am not the guy who I thought I was. I realized that I was making myself miserable trying to conform to that construct. I still don't understand the why's and the how's. I am just listening to what makes me feel more like myself. Instead of what "society" tells me to do. I wished I had something more concrete and logical to explain what I am dealing with now to help me and other people understand.
Ah, I see. That's quite interesting. I get not being able to quite explain things, especially when it's a matter of the individual. Then my best piece of wisdom would be to just be you. You don't have to do anything special or change up pronouns or anything because that is just something that people call you. If you want to wear makeup and get pegged, go for it, if you like vaginas at the same time then that' fine, there is no one way to be a man or woman, hence my lack of understanding, so I think if you just let you be you without having to be worried about labels, then things will be a lot easier for you on a personal level. Depending on where you live the whole social ting might cause some trouble, but with that, you living honestly is another step towards general acceptance of people as they are, something sorely lacking in society.
 

demoman_chaos

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BeetleManiac said:
Sex and gender are not the same thing and should not be referred to interchangeably. Gender is an expression of identity. Biological sex refers only to the type of gametes that your body produces.
Up until the SJW crowd came around redefining words to suit their needs they were the same, but post redefinition people try to use them as if they are different things.
However even just accepting the Redefintioning the intent and meaning of what I said does not change even slightly. "Gender Expression" doesn't change your genetics or your physical make up. Your skeleton doesn't change because you put on a dress. Wearing a wig doesn't make your shoulders suddenly less broad.
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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Man: courage, strength, generosity, the act of competition.
Woman : kindness, beauty, softness, the act of soothing.


There, solved!