What's the appeal of Visual Novels?

[BrawlMan]

One guy is a fanfic writer that only likes 2D women.

So basically this guy:

As long as the character is not supposed to be cool or sympathetic, don't give a damn. There are perverts in 2010s anime worse than whoever you're talking about. See Mineta from My Hero Academia. That little midget shit needs to die.

The characters are so horrible. They're all cliches to the power of cliche.

You want ultimate genric and cliche ridden. You can do way worse than Dangaropan. See Akame ga Kill, Sword Art Online, or Highschool of the Dead.

 

[Dreiko]

I don't understand how the anime can be worse than the game.

Oh, extremely easily. The game is like an Agatha Christie mystery novel where you solve mysteries yourself through your own thoughts (and can be wrong in various ways, or less correct than ideal) whereas the anime just shows you the solutions, it's kinda like explaining the trick behind magic, way less fun than when you discover it yourself. Also the pacing is extremely bad. The game is too long to correctly do in 12 episodes so they basically sped things up way too much so the payoff was way less and the attachment to the chars who were either killing or dying just wasn't there.

I'm not sure what about this confuses you as it is normal for anime adaptations of games to be bad, btw, and the couple ones that aren't bad are the exception and not the rule. Not sure if you're not familiar with all those bad anime adaptations but if so you wanna think of them as the videogame adaptations of hollywood movies which come out parallel to a movie release and they're completely by the numbers cashgrabs that are planning to sell based purely on name recognition.


The first anime is just a retelling of the events of the first game so it's like that, whereas the second anime has original content that fits between games and has to stand on its own two legs so that's why that one ended up having effort put into it and through it resulted in being good. I don't think any normal danganronpa fan cares about the first anime and absolutely nobody would tell you it's anywhere near as good as the game. In fact it's popular to dislike it or hatewatch it.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

So basically this guy:

As long as the character is not supposed to be cool or sympathetic, don't give a damn. There are perverts in 2010s anime worse than whoever you're talking about. See Mineta from My Hero Academia. That little midget shit needs to die.

He, and pretty much every other character, were just so bad. I don't care if a character is a pervert or [insert whatever], I care if they're a shitty character. I'm guessing that character in the clip is basically an "extra" with a line of dialog vs a character that gets as much screen time as everyone else (outside of the main protagonist). So it was that (to the nth degree) for the entirety of the game vs just a one-off nerd joke.

I'm not sure what about this confuses you as it is normal for anime adaptations of games to be bad, btw, and the couple ones that aren't bad are the exception and not the rule. Not sure if you're not familiar with all those bad anime adaptations but if so you wanna think of them as the videogame adaptations of hollywood movies which come out parallel to a movie release and they're completely by the numbers cashgrabs that are planning to sell based purely on name recognition.

What confuses me is I don't get how you can make something worse than the game's writing already is.

 

[BrawlMan]

He, and pretty much every other character, were just so bad. I don't care if a character is a pervert or [insert whatever], I care if they're a shitty character. I'm guessing that character in the clip is basically an "extra" with a line of dialog vs a character that gets as much screen time as everyone else (outside of the main protagonist). So it was that (to the nth degree) for the entirety of the game vs just a one-off nerd joke.

I've been watching a playthrough and so far, the fat guy has not annoyed me or pissed me off, so that is saying something. I'm usually a chill guy anyway. If he bothers you, fine, but I think many a characters worse than the big, gonk lard that writes fan fics all day.

What confuses me is I don't get how you can make something worse than the game's writing already is.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Nope, inaccurate, already broke it down in prior posts in this topic so read those. Nukige is only one fraction of a greater whole.

I did, I'm not convinced most "visual novels" aren't servicing some kind of porn-y need. At least the Japanese ones.

 

[Dreiko]

I did, I'm not convinced most "visual novels" aren't servicing some kind of porn-y need. At least the Japanese ones.

Sure, they can sometimes be within the realm of general erotica like those romance novels women read or Twilight or what have you among other things, but we don't consider romance books porn now do we.

 

[SupahEwok]

There's this assumption here that the only thing that matters about VNs is the writing or the script, when in actuality that's just true for books, VNs are about the art and audio too. You can't make them just be about the writing and ignore the other elements, they're all part of one whole, if you ignore those elements you're not really consuming the art right and if you compare it to different mediums it won't match up obviously since it's not meant to have as much animation or visuals as a manga or anime nor go into as much depth as a book. VNs reside in the liminal space between those other things.

I'd argue more that VN's are the ultimate artistic compromise.
You have budget writing so you don't have to make a novel.
You have budget visuals so you don't have to make a movie.
You have budget interactivity so you don't have to make a game.
You have budget sexual stimulation so nobody has to think.
They're even lower in creative merit than the webcomic, cuz most webcomics at least have a demand for constant art generation rather than the same static backgrounds and character portraits throughout.
From a creative standpoint, VN's are for those without enough talent and resources to succeed in any other artistic endeavor. The one thing their creators get to look down on is fanfic.

 

[Worgen]

I'd argue more that VN's are the ultimate artistic compromise.
You have budget writing so you don't have to make a novel.
You have budget visuals so you don't have to make a movie.
You have budget interactivity so you don't have to make a game.
You have budget sexual stimulation so nobody has to think.
They're even lower in creative merit than the webcomic, cuz most webcomics at least have a demand for constant art generation rather than the same static backgrounds and character portraits throughout.
From a creative standpoint, VN's are for those without enough talent and resources to succeed in any other artistic endeavor. The one thing their creators get to look down on is fanfic.

 

[fOx]

I'd argue more that VN's are the ultimate artistic compromise.
You have budget writing so you don't have to make a novel.
You have budget visuals so you don't have to make a movie.
You have budget interactivity so you don't have to make a game.
You have budget sexual stimulation so nobody has to think.
They're even lower in creative merit than the webcomic, cuz most webcomics at least have a demand for constant art generation rather than the same static backgrounds and character portraits throughout.
From a creative standpoint, VN's are for those without enough talent and resources to succeed in any other artistic endeavor. The one thing their creators get to look down on is fanfic.

I must agree with your critics, ewok. The artistic merit of visual novels is really beyond reproach.

 

[SupahEwok]

Mmm, your adherence to pictorial storytelling must have sadly lead to a decline in your ability to interpret prose. I clearly based my case on "creative merit", not artistic, you poor lad.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

I've been watching a playthrough and so far, the fat guy has not annoyed me or pissed me off, so that is saying something. I'm usually a chill guy anyway. If he bothers you, fine, but I think many a characters worse than the big, gonk lard that writes fan fics all day.

Galerians: Rioh

A character doesn't have to be annoying or piss you off for them to be a terribly written character. Wasting time with something that is shit when you can be doing something better is the issue, time is finite.

Quote from IMDB review for Galerians...
"Make no mistake, it's not tremendous. Thankfully, the crammed, commercial soundtrack or periodically stilted dubbing on the U.S. version does not get in the way of a story that David Cronenberg would be proud of. "

Apparently it's a story that David Cronenberg would be proud of.

Sure, they can sometimes be within the realm of general erotica like those romance novels women read or Twilight or what have you among other things, but we don't consider romance books porn now do we.

Twilight isn't erotica, the Fifty Shades of Grey would be though.

 

[Dreiko]

Twilight isn't erotica, the Fifty Shades of Grey would be though.

Isn't twilight a metaphor for abstinance? I dunno about the books but in an endeavor to be open minded I watched the movies back in the day cause I didn't want to be like everyone else who was making fun of something they didn't even watch like how so many people tended to be towards anime. Mainly found it all terribly boring. Though that part where everyone died was good, too bad it was a dream of the futre or what have you and didn't really happen cause everyone in that series ultimately was a wuss lol.


But yeah the movies are just about romance really, it's all about who this dumb girl will date. Way more boring than even the most basic harem VN lol.

 

[Bedinsis]

Since my experience with Visual Novels is limited to the Ace Attorney series and Steins; Gate I am uncertain if what I'm about to say is accurate, but nonetheless:

What happened to the genre name Dating Sim? I don't know when the switch happened but what we call visual novels used to be called dating sims until the number of titles that followed the conventions of dating sims without having much of an emphasis on dating was numerous enough that a new super-label that encompassed the dating sim needed to be created.

I bring this up because I believe that is where the genre originated: a genre that is all about building relationships and/or getting physical in a relationship. And like all genres depending on what aspect they focused on and what other mechanics they threw into the mix they could get different artistic expressions. For instance, the romantic leads in Doki Doki Literature Club all have distinct and specific personalities with highly scripted scenes whereas the romantic lead in Ganguro Girl is practically a blank slate and the dating scenes consist of preset lines that are responded to accurate/inaccurate input. Two highly different expressions, same basic genre.

So in general I'd say it's like someone having an electric train set which they have more fun with if they build scale models around it until the appeal goes to building scale models independent of the train set.

To answer the question: the appeal is probably dependent on what titles people are playing. However that is not answering the underlying question of why basing it around a Visual Novel aesthetic/framework/convention when other formats also work, so to that end I think the answer is that Visual Novels is one of the better options when it comes to presenting conversations. It focuses on the character your are speaking to, since their image is front and center and can display different expressions depending on what input you give.

 

[BrawlMan]

A character doesn't have to be annoying or piss you off for them to be a terribly written character. Wasting time with something that is shit when you can be doing something better is the issue, time is finite.

Your opinion. I felt indifferent to the character so, not a big deal for me. Not exactly a big defender, but I'm not gonna let it bother me that much.

Quote from IMDB review for Galerians...
"Make no mistake, it's not tremendous. Thankfully, the crammed, commercial soundtrack or periodically stilted dubbing on the U.S. version does not get in the way of a story that David Cronenberg would be proud of. "

Well that reviwer is full of shit, and was most likley made by a snot nosed, edgy teenager, that has to defend everything he liked, regardless if the films were good or bad. Galerians story is bad no matter the medium. The art direction is dull, the characters are barely there with little to no personality, and early 2000s soundtrack sticks out like a sore thumb. In the look how "cool and edgy" we are terrible way. Galerians Ashes (PS2) is a bit better, but that is mainly for the gameplay side of things. I played original game back in 2000 when a soon to be ex-friend brought it over to play. I was not impressed even back then. After a couple of hours, I took out the game and went right back to playing Resident Evil 2 or Parasite Eve.

David Croenberg is great writer and director. His input would make the games or movie adapation a million times better and enjoyable.The man would sooner be proud of Akira, than Galerians

 

[Worgen]

I bring this up because I believe that is where the genre originated: a genre that is all about building relationships and/or getting physical in a relationship. And like all genres depending on what aspect they focused on and what other mechanics they threw into the mix they could get different artistic expressions. For instance, the romantic leads in Doki Doki Literature Club all have distinct and specific personalities with highly scripted scenes whereas the romantic lead in Ganguro Girl is practically a blank slate and the dating scenes consist of preset lines that are responded to accurate/inaccurate input. Two highly different expressions, same basic genre.

Actually I think the genera started more with D&D type fantasy games, or at least they were big in the early japanese games.

Mmm, your adherence to pictorial storytelling must have sadly lead to a decline in your ability to interpret prose. I clearly based my case on "creative merit", not artistic, you poor lad.

Ahh, well if you are basing it on creative merit rather than artistic, then you are even more wrong. You might as well be lamenting all the super hero movies while calling movies that don't have super heroes not real movies.

 

[SupahEwok]

Ahh, well if you are basing it on creative merit rather than artistic, then you are even more wrong. You might as well be lamenting all the super hero movies while calling movies that don't have super heroes not real movies.

Oh look, I think I found a picture of Worgen on the internet. Inb4 I get banned for doxxing.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Isn't twilight a metaphor for abstinance? I dunno about the books but in an endeavor to be open minded I watched the movies back in the day cause I didn't want to be like everyone else who was making fun of something they didn't even watch like how so many people tended to be towards anime. Mainly found it all terribly boring. Though that part where everyone died was good, too bad it was a dream of the futre or what have you and didn't really happen cause everyone in that series ultimately was a wuss lol.

But yeah the movies are just about romance really, it's all about who this dumb girl will date. Way more boring than even the most basic harem VN lol.

I was just pointing out that the other people that have said VNs are mainly "porn" are not talking about VN content that would be considered similar to Twilight. A lot of sitcoms are basically "will they, won't they" and that's nothing like porn or erotica.

Well that reviwer is full of shit, and was most likley made by a snot nosed, edgy teenager, that has to defend everything he liked, regardless if the films were good or bad. Galerians story is bad no matter the medium. The art direction is dull, the characters are barely there with little to no personality, and early 2000s soundtrack sticks out like a sore thumb. In the look how "cool and edgy" we are terrible way. Galerians Ashes (PS2) is a bit better, but that is mainly for the gameplay side of things. I played original game back in 2000 when a soon to be ex-friend brought it over to play. I was not impressed even back then. After a couple of hours, I took out the game and went right back to playing Resident Evil 2 or Parasite Eve.

David Croenberg is great writer and director. His input would make the games or movie adapation a million times better and enjoyable.The man would sooner be proud of Akira, than Galerians

The user reviews and recommendations are my main problem with anything in the "anime" stratosphere, you can't trust any of them. Just searching Google for "best deep anime" and in the very 1st result (the Quora grouping) in this thread and 2nd post, someone posted that Danganronpa is what they considered one of the deepest animes. When I'm trying what I'm told is the "best of the best" and I'm getting straight up garbage, I think I'm going to lean towards avoiding it. I actually remember I almost rented Galerians way back from Hollywood video because I recall that cover.

 

[fOx]

I was just pointing out that the other people that have said VNs are mainly "porn" are not talking about VN content that would be considered similar to Twilight. A lot of sitcoms are basically "will they, won't they" and that's nothing like porn or erotica.


The user reviews and recommendations are my main problem with anything in the "anime" stratosphere, you can't trust any of them. Just searching Google for "best deep anime" and in the very 1st result (the Quora grouping) in this thread and 2nd post, someone posted that Danganronpa is what they considered one of the deepest animes. When I'm trying what I'm told is the "best of the best" and I'm getting straight up garbage, I think I'm going to lean towards avoiding it. I actually remember I almost rented Galerians way back from Hollywood video because I recall that cover.

Isao Takahata and Satoshi Kon are pretty kino. I would consider their films "cinema."

 

[Specter Von Baren]

I was just pointing out that the other people that have said VNs are mainly "porn" are not talking about VN content that would be considered similar to Twilight. A lot of sitcoms are basically "will they, won't they" and that's nothing like porn or erotica.


The user reviews and recommendations are my main problem with anything in the "anime" stratosphere, you can't trust any of them. Just searching Google for "best deep anime" and in the very 1st result (the Quora grouping) in this thread and 2nd post, someone posted that Danganronpa is what they considered one of the deepest animes. When I'm trying what I'm told is the "best of the best" and I'm getting straight up garbage, I think I'm going to lean towards avoiding it. I actually remember I almost rented Galerians way back from Hollywood video because I recall that cover.

As if this doesn't apply for every other medium on the planet? Have you ever looked at the reviews for movies? Things like 'Sorry To Bother You' and other such pretentious "art" house movies are praised to high heaven despite being some of the most blunt, on the nose shit you've ever seen. You have no idea how old the people that type up these reviews are, what their background is, or how much media they've exposed themselves to. Recommending something to someone only really works if you personally know whom is asking for a recommendation because you'll know what their taste in media is.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Isao Takahata and Satoshi Kon are pretty kino. I would consider their films "cinema."

Oh yeah, I did forget about that, anime movies are better in the fact that if they're a big enough release, actual film critics will review them vs just getting user reviews mainly. Just look at the Kingsglaive FFXV movie on RottenTomatoes; critic score vs user score (or the IMDB score). I saw it and it was complete shit.

As if this doesn't apply for every other medium on the planet? Have you ever looked at the reviews for movies? Things like 'Sorry To Bother You' and other such pretentious "art" house movies are praised to high heaven despite being some of the most blunt, on the nose shit you've ever seen. You have no idea how old the people that type up these reviews are, what their background is, or how much media they've exposed themselves to. Recommending something to someone only really works if you personally know whom is asking for a recommendation because you'll know what their taste in media is.

Sorry to Bother You is way better than a lot of anime that I've seen that were basically unanimous "masterpieces" by 90+% of user reviews. I've seen stuff that I'd literally rate as the one of the very worst things I've ever seen that were rated as being a masterpiece by vast vast majority of user reviews. That's only ever happened with regards to anime.