What's there to be ashamed of for living with your folks still?

[Trunkage]

Not living with your parents, and them with theirs, is a relatively new thing, isn't it.

Seems like a financially more appealing situation in these times, to have the entire family contributing their efforts into keeping one big property that the kids will inherit and continue to use for their children.

When the accumulation of wealth is limited to a single generation at a time...more inefficient.

That's the american dream, I guess.

Wasn't it only like the 1850s when the life expectancy broke the 30 year mark? Depending on the country you select.
Property rights of every individual weren't enforced until the last couple of hundred years. In fact, around the 1850s was the time, particualry in the US, when people realised that their children could be better off than they were.

As to the OT, whenever we have employed a person who still lived with their parents, they are usually lazy. I assume they still are looked after at home. Those who move out are usually more responsible, think about the consequences of their actions and empathise with others better.

 

[ultrabiome]

I guess the real question is "why are you living with your parents?" and under what circumstances.

My American perspective: one of two children in a below-poverty level family with my mother working until she disabled herself after 30 years and my father working about 50% of that time, due to pride/laziness. Both me and my brother left home for college, both now have advanced degrees and neither of us is looking back. It would be financial suicide for either of us because they can't support themselves at this point (they live on my grandmother's property now, all 3 of them watching out for each other) plus they live in an area so rural we'd never save enough to leave again.

In relative order of acceptability, in my opinion, for adults living with their parents:

You're disabled* - ok
Your parent(s) are disabled* - ok
You're in school nearby - ok
You have a job, and are saving to move out - ok
You have a job, can't afford to live on your own, but still contribute to rent/utilities/bills - ok

You have a job, can't afford to live on your own, but blow your money on things like partying - not ok

You don't have a/not looking for a job and your parents are working - really not ok

*disabled in a broad sense, could be physically or mentally

Although I'm sure there are other examples, it's hard to empathize with the last two cases, but the rest are generally acceptable, especially if it is to care for others. And that's the point: empathy should motivate us to work - it takes effort from someone so we survive. Either because we don't want others to work extra to support us, or at least we do what we can to minimize that extra support. Anything else makes you a lazy shithead.

 

[Creator002]

Well, it's more down to people holding Millennials to the standards and norms they themselves grew up in.

This is the feeling I get from my dad a lot. He's often saying "when I was your age (I'm 24), I was married and moved out of home and...". He doesn't realise that I have no interest in a partner right now, I have almost no finances and I can't find a fucking job. That's on top of his attitude of "if I didn't see it (my job searching for example), it didn't happen. Damn the evidence."

Still, I'm in a better situation than a lot of people, so I've got that to keep me from being "woe is me." But it does feel a lot like "why can't you be like me when I was your age 30 years ago?"

If you still lived at home in your mid-twenties, I'd say you and I have nothing in common and you should consider moving out and making a life for yourself.

I'll get right on that with $200 savings and no job. It's great that you have been working since 14 and moved out at 19, but it's unfair to characterise those that haven't because you have no idea what situation that they were or are in. I didn't get the chance to work until age 20 at a call centre for 5 months before they shut it down. If you've ever worked at one, you likely know the skills mostly aren't transferable. My next job (and last) was in a pub with electronic gaming machines, which fell through after 3 months for personal reasons.
But we can always lump people into a category that fits our values. I'll put you in "asshole." What do I know though? I have no life apparently.

EDIT - I want to apologise for the insult. Just gets on my nerves when I hear from people IRL that I'm basically worthless then come here as a form of escapism and get it too. Basically, minus any hostility and ignore the insult. Everything else still rings true for me. Sorry, S0denone.

 

[COMaestro]

Well, it's more down to people holding Millennials to the standards and norms they themselves grew up in.

This is the feeling I get from my dad a lot. He's often saying "when I was your age (I'm 24), I was married and moved out of home and...". He doesn't realise that I have no interest in a partner right now, I have almost no finances and I can't find a fucking job. That's on top of his attitude of "if I didn't see it (my job searching for example), it didn't happen. Damn the evidence."

Still, I'm in a better situation than a lot of people, so I've got that to keep me from being "woe is me." But it does feel a lot like "why can't you be like me when I was your age 30 years ago?"

God, some of that makes me think about the job hunting you have to do when you are unemployed and the "advice" you get from older generations of people and even the damn unemployment office. "Hit the streets and apply in person." Really!? Have you not noticed that with the advances in technology about 90% of the jobs that you could once do this with now insist on online applications? God, I think you apply online for fast-food jobs now! When helping my brother-in-law look for a job, there were numerous times the people at the business looked confused when he asked for a job application. A lot of the old job searching methods just don't work anymore.

 

[lacktheknack]

It's because I don't want to pay rent while trying to raise thousands of dollars at a time to pay for my schooling and missionary travel expenses.

I'm such a monster.

 

[Creator002]

]
God, some of that makes me think about the job hunting you have to do when you are unemployed and the "advice" you get from older generations of people and even the damn unemployment office. "Hit the streets and apply in person." Really!? Have you not noticed that with the advances in technology about 90% of the jobs that you could once do this with now insist on online applications? God, I think you apply online for fast-food jobs now! When helping my brother-in-law look for a job, there were numerous times the people at the business looked confused when he asked for a job application. A lot of the old job searching methods just don't work anymore.

I agree with that. I'm with a job network right now. In Australia, most have a fairly poor reputation. You go in, show them the jobs you've searched for (right now, it's 20 every three weeks, compulsory or they cut or block your welfare), show you a few jobs they have you might be good for (even when recommended for one, you don't get a call back from the employer or your case manager) then you're on your way.

And yes! My dad is always saying "ring up, go door to door." The three times I've done that on his insistence, I've been redirected to their website twice and the other took my resume and I didn't hear back. Apparently they lost it when I followed up and, that's right, redirected me to an online application.
Fast food jobs are only online here as far as I know. I almost got employed at Hungry Jack's (Burger King) a few years ago by doing the online app. I got another job during between the induction and my start date.

 

[xaszatm]

If you still lived at home in your mid-twenties, I'd say you and I have nothing in common and you should consider moving out and making a life for yourself.

I, like you, became financially independent at a young age (became a millionaire at 16) but even I have to disagree with this notion. My entire family pretty much disagrees with you. My cousins lived with their parents until their were 25-28. So, it sounds like they were nothing more than a bunch of petty losers in your eyes, right? But they (as a family) decided to live with the parents to save money. All three of those cousins went to medical school then got jobs and worked until A) they were free of student loan debt and B) they were able to buy a house without a mortgage. Now they're 30-33 and financial free of debt. They lived with their parents for a long time yet they were actively working for true independence, not being saddled with loans of every type. Isn't that more financially stable than just moving on out and working? And planning to make sure your life is as stable as possible?

 

[Aeshi]

Nothing, it's just that some people would rather keep pretending we still live in a world where buying your own house right out the gate is still something a majority of the population can aspire to.

 

[s0denone]

Snip

I see your point, I really do, but I am pretty entrenched in my view and it is something that has been fostered for years and years. I suppose it is worth nothing that I am from, and live in, Denmark.
In Denmark you are afforded a monthly government grant when you are studying, something you can be eligible for from eighteen. That is a big part of why it is so socially unacceptable here to be living at home later than that.

Even so, all but the most frugal and responsible achieve student debt and that is simply a part of studying. Then you pay it off in your adult life, usually relatively quickly, and then you're set.

But because of the grants I can see why an American why not want to move out at eighteen or twenty-one, which is why I stressed "mid-twenties" several times in this thread, whereas I would be talking "early-twenties" or even "twenty" if it was Denmark. I think that is an age where I would find it very surprising if the person was still unable to take care of themselves, not to mention it being fair to expect them to have (had) a job.
Me moving out at nineteen here is not an anomaly - quite the contrary.

Regardless of everything else, you seem like a nice enough fellow and I wish you best of luck in your search for self-realising and indeed in your job hunt!

I'll get right on that with $200 savings and no job. It's great that you have been working since 14 and moved out at 19, but it's unfair to characterise those that haven't because you have no idea what situation that they were or are in. I didn't get the chance to work until age 20 at a call centre for 5 months before they shut it down. If you've ever worked at one, you likely know the skills mostly aren't transferable. My next job (and last) was in a pub with electronic gaming machines, which fell through after 3 months for personal reasons.
But we can always lump people into a category that fits our values. I'll put you in "asshole." What do I know though? I have no life apparently.

I didn't say you didn't have a life, I said you haven't made a life for yourself. It is possible to be living with your folks and still be a relatively productive member of society and indeed an extremely nice person; but in my view you simply wouldn't have matured into adulthood. I wouldn't associate with you because surprise, there is a massive difference in the outlook of a person who has financial independence and stand on their own two feet, and someone who doesn't.

EDIT - I want to apologise for the insult. Just gets on my nerves when I hear from people IRL that I'm basically worthless then come here as a form of escapism and get it too. Basically, minus any hostility and ignore the insult. Everything else still rings true for me. Sorry, S0denone.

It is fair that you lash out as a response to what you percieve as an insult - but if you were indeed so hurt by what I wrote, perhaps it is because there is some truth to it and you know it.

Again I must stress I apologise for offending you, or indeed anyone, specifically, but I am simply attempting to respond to the OP in an honest manner.

If you still lived at home in your mid-twenties, I'd say you and I have nothing in common and you should consider moving out and making a life for yourself.

I, like you, became financially independent at a young age (became a millionaire at 16) but even I have to disagree with this notion. My entire family pretty much disagrees with you. My cousins lived with their parents until their were 25-28. So, it sounds like they were nothing more than a bunch of petty losers in your eyes, right? But they (as a family) decided to live with the parents to save money. All three of those cousins went to medical school then got jobs and worked until A) they were free of student loan debt and B) they were able to buy a house without a mortgage. Now they're 30-33 and financial free of debt. They lived with their parents for a long time yet they were actively working for true independence, not being saddled with loans of every type. Isn't that more financially stable than just moving on out and working? And planning to make sure your life is as stable as possible?

Well congratulations on becoming a millionaire. I'd wager you and I have about as much in common as me and the live-at-homes; though I envy you and don't envy them

While it is absolutely more financially responsible to do what your cousins are doing / have done, that isn't really the point. The point isn't about it being or not being easy or smart, it is about it not being necessary. If you are an adult or strive to achieve becoming an adult, you will simply not want to be reliant on your parent(s) nor have them financially back you in any way, because that is simply a sign of personal defeat to any grown up person with even an ounce of pride and self-respect.

I would wager this maybe also comes down to some severe cultural difference even between Denmark and the U.S.(assuming you three are from the States) as here in Denmark it is not uncommon (and very much encouraged) to be working from 13-14-15 just like that is the age most young people start drinking (and potentially smoking) a lot, just like it is the age relationships between youngsters start becoming more serious. I think having had that rather uninhibited phase at 13-14-15 a person is more likely to be able to moderate themselves and grow up at around twenty or early twenties.
Adding to that, out culture here fosters few things as much as independence and self-assurance. While I think lately it has been overdone in that there are many annoying, snot-nose punks, it generates a sense of pride within oneself in a way that a person is likely to want to prove to their parents that they have reached a stage where they can be proud of them.
That any of this would play a role, is naturally wholly conjection.

 

[Elfgore]

My Mom has made it very clear to my sister and I. We have a place to stay as long as we are working or going to school. I work full time, pay for my new car, pay for my cell phone, pay for my student loans, pay rant, and pay for my own food. I bear no shame for my current state of life just because I happen to live with my mom. Plus I'm only twenty, so I'm not at the discrimination point.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I do not see the issue of healthy children living with their parents after adulthood, on the condition they are helping take care of their parents rather than just remaining dependent of their parents. Some parents are either elderly or have disabilities and other issues that prevent them from caring for themselves well. Having adult children live with them allows for them to live more independently than if they to not have any one help them. In those circumstances, I see that as admirable that those people take care of their parents.

However, the otherwise healthy child who is still mooching off their parents after they are grown because they have issues handing responsibility and self sufficiency, they should work to become dependent on themselves rather than on their parents. It is not healthy for either the parents or the children to have that situation continue for years after a child should mature enough to make their own decisions. If a child is mature enough to make their own decisions, the child should also be mature enough to fend for themselves. Of course life throws out circumstances beyond our control that may make this difficult to do, but we need to keep trying to at least be working towards those goals, even if you have to do something unconventional to accomplish that. Helping their parents as well as themselves can be beneficial for both parties as long as the children understand that the parents already did their job supporting and raising them, now you can return the favor and help them as well.

 

[Redd the Sock]

Well, the stigma persists because, face it, we all know a person that really is just a leach. You know, not working or studying, can't get up before noon, can't even do laundry. People can look to the past of generational homes, but even in those, you were expected to work, not putz around until you found yourself, holding out for the ideal job, or rack up student loans thinking the masters degree in the soft major will get the job the bachelors didn't.

I get that the economic world has changed since our parents' days, but at the same time, I'm related to that leech I mentioned above, and as I get older I'm very aware of the consequences of his lifestyle. He's pushing 30 and never held a job. Hell, he's barely educated, despite being rather talented at computer skills. Right now, he's denying his parents of some of their better golden years, being both a financial, and lifestyle burden. No retirement cruses, they have to pay for and take care of someone that can barely heat up a TV dinner. I like to think this will eventually come back to bite people as the generation that didn't move out until 30 will have kids that will also not move out until their 30 leaving this current generation as near seniors caring for their kids until they're shoved into the old folks home. But then again, that raises the harder possibility: the parents dying leaving someone nether financially, intentionally, nor emotionally capable of caring for themselves now with no safety net.

So, again, I get the financial needs these days, but I also see people that wish to call themselves adults, while having the responsibilities of adulthood (independence) while denying their parents the ability to move on in life and keep them stuck in the childcare role. Hate me for judging that harshly all you want, but it's hard to see it as any kind of virtue.

 

[WolfThomas]

As someone who lives with his fiancee now but had lived a while with my dad for work. I don't think there is any shame, if it's done in an adult way. You know paying rent/part of the utilities. Doing your own washing, shared cooking etc. Likewise that goes both ways with the parent giving privacy afforded to an adult, not entering the room, not needing to know movements etc.

It's when someone defaults back to dependent role they should be mocked.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

As someone who lives with his fiancee now but had lived a while with my dad for work. I don't think there is any shame, if it's done in an adult way. You know paying rent/part of the utilities. Doing your own washing, shared cooking etc. Likewise that goes both ways with the parent giving privacy afforded to an adult, not entering the room, not needing to know movements etc.

It's when someone defaults back to dependent role they should be mocked.

It should be noted that the parents have to be "okay" with this type of arrangement, as some are very not okay with a child assuming they can treat parents like a landlord/tenant situation. They are parents and should be respected as such, no matter how old a child gets. If parents are not okay with this type of arrangement in their own home, they have every right to not allow this type of arrangement in their own home, it is their home, they are the ones who make the rules. If their rules require them to to know their child's whereabouts, adult or otherwise, those rules should be respected or the adult child should expect to find their own place if they do not wish to accommodate. The bottom line with this situation is, the parents make the rules for their own home. If the child wishes to stay in their home they should abide by those rules or find their own way. The situation is bad if the child thinks they should have a say in the rules of their parents home simply because they are an adult, as they do not unless the parents choose to allow them to.Parents do not have to change their own rules of their home to accommodate an adult child, and that should be expected to be the case regardless of what the child thinks their relationship should be.

Parents are still entitled to set curfews, expect calls to let them know when they will be late, and be notified if the child is not coming home if the child wishes to live with parents. Parents do not suddenly stop being parents when a child is grown, they will always be their child's parents. So an adult child should not expect this to change simply because they don't like it. That is attempting to impose upon parents rather than respect that is part of being a parent.

 

[Creator002]

It is fair that you lash out as a response to what you percieve as an insult - but if you were indeed so hurt by what I wrote, perhaps it is because there is some truth to it and you know it.

Again I must stress I apologise for offending you, or indeed anyone, specifically, but I am simply attempting to respond to the OP in an honest manner.

It wasn't so much what you wrote, but the frequency at which I experience similar sentiments. Straw that broke the camel's back, in a way. And the fact that you were an individual made it a little easier to focus my thoughts and feelings directly, rather than hearing it from a group or family. Basically, you were the customer service agent of a large corporation that I felt wronged by.
I can't see it from your point of view, so we're going to have to agree to disagree, I think, but I appreciate the fact that, apart from a knee jerk reaction from me, we kept it civil.

 

[WolfThomas]

It should be noted that the parents have to be "okay" with this type of arrangement, as some are very not okay with a child assuming they can treat parents like a landlord/tenant situation. They are parents and should be respected as such, no matter how old a child gets. If parents are not okay with this type of arrangement in their own home, they have every right to not allow this type of arrangement in their own home, it is their home, they are the ones who make the rules. If their rules require them to to know their child's whereabouts, adult or otherwise, those rules should be respected or the adult child should expect to find their own place if they do not wish to accommodate. The bottom line with this situation is, the parents make the rules for their own home. If the child wishes to stay in their home they should abide by those rules or find their own way. The situation is bad if the child thinks they should have a say in the rules of their parents home simply because they are an adult, as they do not unless the parents choose to allow them to.Parents do not have to change their own rules of their home to accommodate an adult child, and that should be expected to be the case regardless of what the child thinks their relationship should be.

Parents are still entitled to set curfews, expect calls to let them know when they will be late, and be notified if the child is not coming home if the child wishes to live with parents. Parents do not suddenly stop being parents when a child is grown, they will always be their child's parents. So an adult child should not expect this to change simply because they don't like it.

Oh I agree pretty much entirely. I'm just suggesting an example where it worked well for me I guess.

I think I'd condense it done to one point you mention, respect. My dad when I lived with him for a year respected me enough to not require to know what I was doing at all times, enforce curfews. He treated me as an adult. And in turn I respected him by generally keeping him in the know and not coming and going at all hours. I acted as an adult.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

It should be noted that the parents have to be "okay" with this type of arrangement, as some are very not okay with a child assuming they can treat parents like a landlord/tenant situation. They are parents and should be respected as such, no matter how old a child gets. If parents are not okay with this type of arrangement in their own home, they have every right to not allow this type of arrangement in their own home, it is their home, they are the ones who make the rules. If their rules require them to to know their child's whereabouts, adult or otherwise, those rules should be respected or the adult child should expect to find their own place if they do not wish to accommodate. The bottom line with this situation is, the parents make the rules for their own home. If the child wishes to stay in their home they should abide by those rules or find their own way. The situation is bad if the child thinks they should have a say in the rules of their parents home simply because they are an adult, as they do not unless the parents choose to allow them to.Parents do not have to change their own rules of their home to accommodate an adult child, and that should be expected to be the case regardless of what the child thinks their relationship should be.

Parents are still entitled to set curfews, expect calls to let them know when they will be late, and be notified if the child is not coming home if the child wishes to live with parents. Parents do not suddenly stop being parents when a child is grown, they will always be their child's parents. So an adult child should not expect this to change simply because they don't like it.

Oh I agree pretty much entirely. I'm just suggesting an example where it worked well for me I guess.

I think I'd condense it done to one point you mention, respect. My dad when I lived with him for a year respected me enough to not require to know what I was doing at all times, enforce curfews. He treated me as an adult. And in turn I respected him by generally keeping him in the know and not coming and going at all hours. I acted as an adult.

Yes, giving them the same courtesies you should give anyone you live with is also expected. Letting them know when you are not going to be home so they do not worry that something bad happened to you is also a consideration often given to friends that adult children frequently overlook when dealing with their parents that should not be neglected.

 

[TotalerKrieger]

If the economy doesn't improve, get ready for 2-3 generation households to become the new norm in the Western world...just as it has been in the rest of the world for ages.

If someone in good health is just mooching off their parents, not contributing an income or some sort of support...yea some mocking may be reasonable. But if they are contributing to the household and all parties are relatively happy with the arrangement...why would I care? If a person doesn't want to leave home or circumstances prevent them from doing so, it is hardly reason to judge them harshly. Life isn't easy, I'll not kick people when they are down or have simply made different choices than I have.

This "pick yourself up by your bootstraps"/"self-made man" mentality is just hyper-capitalist nonsense. Society need not be so callous.

 

[stroopwafel]

Snip

I see your point, I really do, but I am pretty entrenched in my view and it is something that has been fostered for years and years. I suppose it is worth nothing that I am from, and live in, Denmark.
In Denmark you are afforded a monthly government grant when you are studying, something you can be eligible for from eighteen. That is a big part of why it is so socially unacceptable here to be living at home later than that.

You are condescending towards people who still live at home at a certain age but like you said you compare the situation of living in a nanny state with that of a country where it's pretty much everyone for him/herself. I'd have more respect for your opinion if you actually rejected your student grant on basis that people pay with their taxes for your college partying even when often the taxpayer in particular doesn't have a college education him/herself. Infact you can argue there are people with low income jobs living with their parents who pay for your student 'grant' who you subsequently condescend from your high horse. In all respect, those are the trademarks of a hypocrite.

Anyways, I think the 'problem' in many cases is the lack of affordable housing in much/most of the developed world. I live near a city where over half of the population is single with low to moderate income yet in no way does the housing market reflect that. It's all sold/rented for either double or higher income brackets(or 'social housing' with 10 year waiting lists). One can also wonder why. There is absolutely no reason for a bunch of fucking bricks to be this expensive. Think about it the entire housing market is speculative with only a handful of people profiting from it while millions of people have to bend over backward to pay their rent. It's really one area where I think the free market fails. There is little to no competition and prices are kept artificially high and everybody needs a place to live so it isn't a consumer product with which you have the luxury to 'vote with your wallet'. You can't sleep under a bridge so it's either pay or, indeed, remain to live with your parents.

In reality ofcourse the housing market has too many vested interests from banks, financial institutions and government subcontracting to ever expect a reasonable change in pricing. Even with all the mortgage bloat from the financial crisis gone the prices are still way too high. Real estate developers get fucking rich, banks get fucking rich and corporate traders get fucking rich but that leaves everyone else to fill these people's pockets(and that includes the burger flipper having to do double shifts to pay his/her rent). Only ways to mitigate this would be if housing prices were capped at certain rates(since the housing market is a clusterfuck that will never correct itself) so that every citizen has access to affordable housing(one that doesn't exceed 30% of a person's income at most).

That will not happen ofcourse but still it's food for thought how it's more than reasonable people will more and more live with their parents at a later age. Espescially people who are either on their own or don't earn top money. Most adult people who still live at home aren't bums or 'man children' but just contributing members of society who pay taxes and share the expenses of the household they are part of. There is absolutely no shame being unable(or unwilling) to pay the ludicrous prices apartments and houses are going for. It is the market that is at fault here not the people living at home.