What's with all the LoL hate?

[SgtMcgee23]

What are these MOBA games all about? Could someone just give me a general rundown please.

I have seen videos, but have no idea what on Earth is going on

 

[Xdeser2]

Meh, I dont hate the GAMES (LoL and DoTA2), I hate the community sounding them

They seem to forget the "Game" part of Video Games

 

[tkioz]

Simple answer, the community. I tried the game a few times... and the abuse hurled at new players is staggering...

 

[aeroblaster]

What are these MOBA games all about? Could someone just give me a general rundown please.

I have seen videos, but have no idea what on Earth is going on

While I have no problem with you using the term MOBA, be careful with that term since the Dota community hates it general.

Mostly because the term was invented by Riot to differentiate LoL from Dota... but moreso what the term stands for. Multiplayer Online Battle Arena is a terrible blanket term that can be used to describe any multiplayer game.

To get more specific, Dota and LoL are 2 entirely different games. So I will cover some of the similarities between them to make it easy to understand. I will be using Dota terminology simply because I am familiar with it, not because of bias.

What is Dota? The General Rundown
The game is played from an RTS style view, with the player controlling a single unit hero. Traditionally played in 5v5 teams, the objective is to destroy the opposing team's base.

Your hero gains experience and levels over time, which you use to upgrade your hero's abilities in an RPG type fashion.
Exp and Gold are gained by laning, in which you kill waves of computer controlled units called creeps. But you don't just kill them, you have to get the last hit on them to earn gold. There are also neutral creeps in the jungle areas of the map, but I won't get too specific there.
Exp is used to level up and make your hero stronger in stats, while gold is used to buy items. Items have a very game changing effect, and are incredibly important.

The main obstacles to overcome are enemy heroes and towers. Towers must be destroyed to be able to advance further toward the enemy base. Working as a team to defeat the enemy team, and then subsequently kill their tower, will put your team on the path to victory. It will get increasingly difficult the further you go into enemy territory.

-------------------------------

That's about as basic as I can get without delving into the intricacies.
There are a lot of nuances involved in the game, and that's what I love about it.

 

[NightHawk21]

Because DOTA 2 is more complex than LoL. That's a fact.

Except in...
Viable Characters (LoL - 92% vs Dota2 - 14% in champion use in tournament play)
Resource Types (LoL - Mana/Energy/Fury/Rage/Shield/H­eat/Cooldown vs Dota2 - Mana)
Character Customization (LoL - 13 adjustable stats vs Dota2 - 3)
Innovation (LoL - Original characters and new ones every 3-4 weeks vs Dota2 - Copy/paste WC3)
...every aspect

So you may want to go look up what "fact" means, because I don't think it means what you think it means...

I would love to know where you're getting the numbers for viable characters, because those don't seem right at all. Unless Lol has changed drastically in the year I left it, there were maybe only like 20-30 heroes played on a regular basis (so about 20-30%) in tournaments or in pub play.

Resources:
Dota: Mana. You're right there isn't anything else.

LoL: Mana - same as Dota.
Energy - essentially mana that recharges fast
Fury - essentially mana that you recover by attacking
Shield - essentially the same thing as fury
Heat - again, essentially mana that just recharges fast (oh and it goes in the opposite direction lol)
Cooldown - Not unique to Lol
>>>Note: Some of these resources (cooldown) are already in Dota (yes there are abilities with no mana cost and only a CD, and some with a negligible mana cost), and while some of these "mana-variants" might not be in directly there are passive auto attack modifiers that can act like them.

Character Customization:
Lol has less customization then dota. In LoL you got your stranded move speed, attack speed, crit lifesteal, etc. In Dota you have almost all these plus attribute modifiers (strength, int, agi) which modify a combination of these stats.

Innovation:
Dota 2: Copy and past from Dota (WC3), which is to be expected because the game is essentially a sequel/ remake.
LoL: In terms of lore they are good and creative, but if you're talking about abilities, most are just copy and pasted Dota abilities.

For example:
Ammu Bandage Toss - Clockwerk Grapple
Ammu Despair - Necro Aura
Ammu Ult - Treant Ult
>> These are just a few from one of the first champs on the list and you can do this for almost every champ in the game (especially the older ones), and doesn't even include iconic abilities that are blatantly copied like Karthus Ult and Blitz Hook.

 

[JaceArveduin]

Innovation:
Dota 2: Copy and past from Dota (WC3), which is to be expected because the game is essentially a sequel/ remake.
LoL: In terms of lore they are good and creative, but if you're talking about abilities, most are just copy and pasted Dota abilities.

For example:
Ammu Bandage Toss - Clockwerk Grapple
Ammu Despair - Necro Aura
Ammu Ult - Treant Ult
>> These are just a few from one of the first champs on the list and you can do this for almost every champ in the game (especially the older ones), and doesn't even include iconic abilities that are blatantly copied like Karthus Ult and Blitz Hook.

Well, there's only so many abilities that you can think of that are completely unique. That, and as someone mentioned, a lot of Riot's original team were apart of DOTA, so of course they're going to pull in some of their favorites. Though, I'd like to add they at least swap the kits up. I'm about 90% sure there's not a hero from LoL that's a complete copy/paste of a DOTA hero.

Of course, if there is one, I'd like to know, so if i ever do play DOTA2 I'll have someone familiar.

 

[rcs619]

I've noticed that as Dota2 grows in popularity, so do LoL hate threads/forums/posts/comments/everything.

Why do Dota2 fans hate LoL so much? Is it just here in America? Have you witnessed this too? Can anyone explain this?

It's a couple reasons really. First and foremost, DOTA is basically the coca-cola of the MOBA genre. It's basically what started it all. Now that there is a true sequel to DOTA out again, a lot of the older, more devoted fans have gone back to it and sometimes lash out at LoL for being a clone, which is kind of is, in a few ways. So are Heroes of Newearth, Awesomenauts, Smite and any other game using the MOBA formula that DOTA created. LoL and HoN are the closest to DOTA in gameplay and style though.

The other reason is that DOTA 2 was designed from the ground up to be an eSport. Mechanically, it is actually a bit deeper, more complex and more challenging than League of Legends. It was designed specifically to have one of the highest skill ceilings in the MOBA genre. League of Legends on the other hand, while still being quite challenging especially at higher levels, is a bit more streamlined, more accessible and with a slightly lower skill ceiling (although, really, 90% of the players will never reach the highest levels of any game, so a lot of the time talks of skill ceilings are just that, talk). Also it is completely free to play. So, it gets bashed by DOTA's hardcore fans because it's the game a lot of the more casual MOBA fans play. And as you know, casual gaming of any sort is a scourge upon is all =P

Personally, I prefer League of Legends. I can respect DOTA 2's devotion to being an eSport and being the more mechanically demanding of the two, but I just enjoy LoL's aesthetic more. It's a more colorful game, and to me anyway, it's playable characters are more distinct and have a greater amount of personality. Being totally free-to-play is a nice plus too.

 

[meryatathagres]

I had thought to try DotA2, but from the quotes or caricatures seen in this thread, I think I'll stay clear of the genre.
I'm quite touchy, and get upset if random unknowns spew insults and hatred at me in a game. :/

 

[AsurasEyes]

I've noticed that as Dota2 grows in popularity, so do LoL hate threads/forums/posts/comments/everything.

Why do Dota2 fans hate LoL so much? Is it just here in America? Have you witnessed this too? Can anyone explain this?

I wasn't aware it was hated. It's pretty universally liked by everyone I know...

 

[EHKOS]

I don't play DOTA but I don't like LoL because I'm threatened by it. I have no idea what it is, I don't want to learn, it's top-down and I hate that, and it seems very complex. I dun liek eet.

 

[Mikeyfell]

I like LoL.
It's better than LMAO or ROTFL
I'm a little weird though as where sometimes I'll say "LoL" phonetically instead of laughing.

Wait are we talking about the abbreviation for "Laughing out Loud" or League of Legends?

The second one?
Shit, I've never played League of Legends.

But the fact remains that is something exists there is porn of it. Hold on that's not the relevant fact...
Wait it's this one. If someone likes something there is someone who hates it twice as much.

 

[Tanakh]

I had thought to try DotA2, but from the quotes or caricatures seen in this thread, I think I'll stay clear of the genre.
I'm quite touchy, and get upset if random unknowns spew insults and hatred at me in a game. :/

Do that, if a random guy insulting you will get upset this kind of games are definetly a bad idea.

However you might try awesomenauts, it's community seems more relaxed and it is a similar (if simplified) experience.

I've noticed that as Dota2 grows in popularity, so do LoL hate threads/forums/posts/comments/everything.

Why do Dota2 fans hate LoL so much? Is it just here in America? Have you witnessed this too? Can anyone explain this?

I dont think this is ture at all. Most of the DotA 2 community doesn't seem to give a crap about LoL, and I play it here and there if friends want to do that instead of dota.

This same question is posted on DotA forums from time to time, no idea why, and at large the community says that they just don't care and the OP should GTFO instead of trolling the forums, here and there some weird fan goes on a nerdrage but that is rare. Though LoL is used as a joke (like in "I suck at this game, should get back to league of lesbians"), but all for tue lulz, and at least one of the top pros was complaining a while ago about how IMBA dota is compared to LoL, with good statistical basis actually, DotA heroes with significantly more and less winrate than LoL.

At large, AT VERY LARGE actually, the LoL community seems more scorned by non ARTS players than by the DotA community.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Statement: "The MOBA gaming community is full of aggressive, petty jackasses eager to prove their superiority over other aggressive, petty jackasses."

Proof: This thread.

 

[xefaros]

For me DOTA is triumphant over LoL simply because the first game was completely free(not accounting a great RTS game) and the second game is completely free that implement a far better micro transaction system.Skins that change animation,random ingame drops and trade between players.You cant buy the new shiny OP character with cash that saw in a video of a guy owning,which will get nerfed in coming patches.All are available and only require time to master and most have counters on the item shop.

Also i have seen more strategic games and flexibility in DOTA than LoL.In LoL all i see is boots>wlc to sm rift>lvl>lvl>gank>follow guide of someone
All this eSport liveTV and spectate is killing the strategy involved in the game.Oh you wonna try something new?You are a noob learn to play.For the community LoL has the worst but DOTA2 will end up being the same after they stop handing key and open up to anyone.

Also Valve has enough cash income that hopefully wont milk DOTA to the bone

 

[VALOCARAPTOR]

i play HoN, LoL and Dota 2 and frankly HoN gets the most hate, ever looked at the comment section of a HoN hero spotlight, half the comments are talking about how dota or Lol are better or how HoN is dead, or how its copying a Lol hero, it drives me insane as probably half the dislikes on the spotlights are from people who only want to bash the game

so the reason i have some hate for Lol, because they have fans that go onto a different games youtube videos comment without a single second watched of the video and say its a blatant copy of some random hero, then they get 12 likes from the other trolls on the video at the time

 

[Rednog]

Finally, in terms of Innovation, DotA heroes are still more innovative than League. DotA 2 is being developed by Icefrog, it's not like he's going to move onto another MOBA game and abandon all of the heroes of his DotA. Also, a lot of League champion ideas are taken from DotA, if you paid attention to the employees of Riot you might see that a few of them used to help with the original DotA, hell Guinsoo even had his own item in DotA called 'Guinsoo's Sheepstick'.

You make it sound like the Riot guys completely jacked from dota..."they helped with the original DotA". You mean they made the original DotA. Icefrog succeeded Guinsoo. So it's not stealing when they use their previous work, which even then a lot is based off of WarCraft III.

 

[Ghaleon640]

They're just jealous they don't have singed.


Actually, I've only played lol, was going to pick up dota 2 sometime next week. The communities do suck, but I guess to a degree lol may feel more limiting. Dota 2, I've heard, is countering 'broken with broken' and lol is 'fun sized,' its just smaller in scale. I look at the dota 2 videos with puck hopping everywhere and the massive size of the effects, and maybe dota players have a hard time going to lol once they've already experienced that.

But I'm just an outsider.

Anyone know about the HON community in all this?

 

[Frostbite3789]

Also people never stop fucking pushing (then complaining about the lack of ganks)

Yay someone who gets it!
Freaking stupid how many people don't get basic plays.
Then they keep pushing and keep getting ganked, don't take any advice because they think they're great and you're terrible.
I actually don't mind if people are bad, I just hate it when they think they're the greatest and abuse everyone else.

Taking me to my final point, Lol is full of scum and I think that's the main reason people hate it.

Don't forget pushing while refusing to buy wards.

WHAT? YOU EXPECT DARIUS TO BUY HIS OWN WARDS? YOU FOOL!

 

[The Wykydtron]

-snip-

Viable Characters (LoL - 92% vs Dota2 - 14% in champion use in tournament play)
Resource Types (LoL - Mana/Energy/Fury/Rage/Shield/H­eat/Cooldown vs Dota2 - Mana)
Character Customization (LoL - 13 adjustable stats vs Dota2 - 3)
Innovation (LoL - Original characters and new ones every 3-4 weeks vs Dota2 - Copy/paste WC3)
...every aspect

WOPR's points were, at best, idiotic. For a start, DotA 2 has less heroes than League of Legends. League and DotA allstars are about the same, however not all of the heroes in allstars have been transferred over.

Next, DotA tournaments have a different pick/ban system. In DotA tournaments, there are 5 bans, then each team picks 5 heroes, then 5 more heroes are banned. In league, all of the champions are banned before the game starts. Even then League only has 6 bans with a much bigger champion pool.

Not only this, but DotA 2 is MUCH bigger in counter picking and team comp. Some heroes have lane partners who they do terrible with, some heroes have lane partners who they synchronize really well with, but might break against a certain team comp etc. This means that comp is a LOT more important which can pigeonhole tournaments quite a bit. In League the comps hardly matter because all of the champs are pretty much independent from each other.

Even then, how many players compete in tournaments? I can guarantee that neither you, me nor WOPR compete in any major recorded tournaments.

In the point about resources, DotA heroes all stick to one resource because of balance. If a hero is able to spam a powerful spell too much? raise the mana costs, if a spell is too weak but is spammable? lower the mana costs. In League the variance in resources cause imbalance and make it hard for Riot to balance. Just look at Katarina, they had to rework her because they couldn't buff her without bouncing blades becoming too powerful. Even after her rework she was unbalanced. Same with champions like Tryndamere and Morde. Different resources don't even add more depth to the game, they definitely don't make it more complex.

With character customization he's also wrong. DotA has pretty much the same amount of stats, however the stats can be built independently with some items, or they can be built in a group by using strength, agility and intelligence. You don't have to build agility to get more attack speed and you don't need to build strength to get health and health regen. The only stat which is missing is magic resistance, and that's because spells don't scale in damage. Even then you can buy items that increase the spell damage taken by the target, or give you % resistance to spell damage.

In addition to that, there are also A LOT more items with special abilities, you have items like Refresher Orb, Orchid Malevolence and Diffusal blade, which do things like burn mana, remove buffs, refresh cooldowns and silence. This adds a lot more complexity to building items and stats.

Finally, in terms of Innovation, DotA heroes are still more innovative than League. DotA 2 is being developed by Icefrog, it's not like he's going to move onto another MOBA game and abandon all of the heroes of his DotA. Also, a lot of League champion ideas are taken from DotA, if you paid attention to the employees of Riot you might see that a few of them used to help with the original DotA, hell Guinsoo even had his own item in DotA called 'Guinsoo's Sheepstick'.

And even if League releases a champion every 2-4 weeks, they're generally rehashed. You do get some new and fun champs like Syndra and Elise, however they usually follow the same pattern of Q = main attack W = movement ability and E = CC/AoE, with only a few minor differences between each champion.

I never understood why people complain about "copying" abilities. Originality is dead. Between HoN, DOTA, LoL and other random fantasy games there is always going to be similarities between abilities. You have countless line skillshots, pass through skillshots, on click stuns, on click slows, global sniping ultimates, teleports etc etc. People steal ideas all the time. It's how practically everything gets going, why does anyone care?

I could say that Pudge looks like Blitzcrank on steroids for example. Or Blitz is a watered down Pudge, pick your favourite. I won't because it looks like Pudge can easily 1v1 anyone he pulls. Whereas Blitz just lets his team dogpile the guy he pulled and he's not the best at an all out fight. The amount of times i've seen a Blitz kill himself by pulling someone at a retarded time... I have to laugh at Pudge though. The range on his pull is HUGE.

I don't particularly care about how innovative the characters in the games are really, I just care about how interesting they all are. LoL wins that hands down for me. Jayce is the coolest guy ever, Irelia is a straight badass with a sweet hat, Ezreal is an anime version of Indiana Jones (or a cyborg) Vi punches and/or dunks people, Garen camps in bushes, Darius... Is Downright Darius and the list goes on.

What is it with Dunks nowadays? It used to be Spin2Win now it's who can outdunk who. What's next I wonder?

Fuck it, balance is boring. I want to see the next chaotic thing to pop up in this bizarre Season 3 crap. What's next, League of Banners? League of Shivs? League of Hydras? Genuinely interested in what the absolute fuck will happen next.

 

[squeekenator]

I never understood why people complain about "copying" abilities. Originality is dead. Between HoN, DOTA, LoL and other random fantasy games there is always going to be similarities between abilities. You have countless line skillshots, pass through skillshots, on click stuns, on click slows, global sniping ultimates, teleports etc etc. People steal ideas all the time. It's how practically everything gets going, why does anyone care?

Well if someone is going to claim that LoL's innovative hero designs are a big reason that it's way better than DotA when in fact a lot of LoL skills were stolen from DotA (I dunno if that's true or not since I've never played LoL, but a fair few people are saying that it is) then it becomes an important point.