What's Wrong With Communism?

[manicfoot]

Commumism doesn't work because people are bastards. Btw, free health care isn't really a communist ideal. We've had free health care in britain for decades. A lot of other capitalist countries have it as well.

I'd hardly call the NHS free. It's about 20% of public spending, which is about 40% of our GDP. The NHS costs about £120 Billion a year which divided by 66 million people means it costs each of us £1791 a year, roughly. I actually looked at how much you can expect to pay for healthcare in America and for most people it's a damn sight cheaper than £1800 (Roughly $2980 for the yanks reading). Ofcourse they have to pay extra for doctors visits but then we have to pay for prescriptions and the dentist too.

You can argue that because it's tax-based then only those who can afford to pay for it actually pay anything, while those who can't afford it don't...but it's still costing our economy a fortune. And to say how bad (and not to mention bureaucratic it is, I know cos my Mum's a nurse who never stops comaplaining when I see her) the service is, it's a completely wasteful operation.

This is kinda my argument against Communism too. Politicians can promise you the world but chances are they'll bugger it up and it will get done really badly. Communism means giving the state power over everything, and when you think how greedy and power-hungry politicians usually are...Well it's just a recipe for disaster.

Very good points. Thanks for the education The one thing I would say though is at least our health service is available to everyone. No matter how shit it is. You're right about dental too. I've not been to the dentist in over 5 years. The same can be said for all my friends. I guess the english bloke with shit teeth stereotype is going to ring true soon haha.

 

[LockHeart]

Commumism doesn't work because people are bastards. Btw, free health care isn't really a communist ideal. We've had free health care in britain for decades. A lot of other capitalist countries have it as well.

I'd hardly call the NHS free. It's about 20% of public spending, which is about 40% of our GDP. The NHS costs about £120 Billion a year which divided by 66 million people means it costs each of us £1791 a year, roughly. I actually looked at how much you can expect to pay for healthcare in America and for most people it's a damn sight cheaper than £1800 (Roughly $2980 for the yanks reading). Ofcourse they have to pay extra for doctors visits but then we have to pay for prescriptions and the dentist too.

You can argue that because it's tax-based then only those who can afford to pay for it actually pay anything, while those who can't afford it don't...but it's still costing our economy a fortune. And to say how bad (and not to mention bureaucratic it is, I know cos my Mum's a nurse who never stops comaplaining when I see her) the service is, it's a completely wasteful operation.

This is kinda my argument against Communism too. Politicians can promise you the world but chances are they'll bugger it up and it will get done really badly. Communism means giving the state power over everything, and when you think how greedy and power-hungry politicians usually are...Well it's just a recipe for disaster.

I like this post, high five good sir.

Not to mention the fact that patients in Scotland and Wales get their prescriptions and dental charges subbed by the English taxpayers - they get it for free, English patients have to pay. Nice equal system, eh?

I wish people would stop going on about how Socialism/Communism provides free healthcare and education. There's no such thing as a free lunch...

 

[CrashBang]

Well, I like being an individual. I like being able to go to the grocery store and decide what I'm having for dinner. I like being able to create artwork and play music with the things that I own. I like being on the internet.

In short, I like being able to decide my quality of life.

If I really thought that humanity could just drop everything and coexist, than I would be for it. The fact that I know it can't makes me quite sad.

I agree. People want the opportunity to rise through the ranks, reach the top and be the best they can be.
Giving every person the chance to be equal is not fair to those that work hard to better themselves

 

[Agema]

I'd hardly call the NHS free. It's about 20% of public spending, which is about 40% of our GDP. The NHS costs about £120 Billion a year which divided by 66 million people means it costs each of us £1791 a year, roughly. I actually looked at how much you can expect to pay for healthcare in America and for most people it's a damn sight cheaper than £1800 (Roughly $2980 for the yanks reading). Ofcourse they have to pay extra for doctors visits but then we have to pay for prescriptions and the dentist too.

You can argue that because it's tax-based then only those who can afford to pay for it actually pay anything, while those who can't afford it don't...but it's still costing our economy a fortune. And to say how bad (and not to mention bureaucratic it is, I know cos my Mum's a nurse who never stops comaplaining when I see her) the service is, it's a completely wasteful operation.

To be slightly more precise, the NHS costs £95-100 billion, and the population of the UK is only 60million, so it's just over £1,500 per person. According to the WHO, the USA is estimated to spend 15% of GDP on healthcare (public and private), in total that's actually nearly 3 times as much per person, over £4,000.

However, in the US that money is disproportionately spent. The richer you are, the better treatment you receive, the poor have healthcare provision that's usually either terrible or even nonexistent. It systematically fails a large proportion of the population, that's why the WHO ranks the US healthcare system below virtually every other developed country on average.

The UK NHS might be inefficient in areas (I agree there, my gf works in it) and might screw up occasionally, but at least it doesn't institutionally disadvantage people.

 

[Social Pariah]

Socialism maybe be what you're going for, rather than communism.

 

[AWC Viper]

the thing is communism supposedly make everyone equal like no rich and no poor, the state ownership of manufacturing and so on. Communism works in theory but then again everything works in theory. it doesn't work because there is greed that it the reason for the GFC and why communism don't work is the same thing. basic Greed. feel free to correct me as my info came from my grandfather (he is a reliable source on most things)

 

[Sigel]

Communism? Really? That has already thoroughly been proven that it does not work, comrade.

 

[ben---neb]

Too many Americans are afraid of it.
AND, others believe that Obama will make America a communistic society.
But, i see no problem in this. Communism is a great idea if a country already has a stable economy, and hey, free healthcare would be great. It's a great idea it's just been used wrong.

So really, what's wrong with Communism?

Everything, and I'm not just saying this to be funny. Communism is an unworkable economic system. Under capitalism then what goods are produced are regulated by the Price Mechanism. This works via a profit and loss system. If one good is in higher demand, say Chicken, then the price firms can charge increases so they make more profit. This acts as a signal to other firms that Chicken is highly profitable. Firms switch production to chicken so the incresed demand for chicken leads to an increase in supply. Profits are competed away until demand and supply reach an equlibrium.

A commumist economy gets rid of the Price Mechanism. Now instead of a profit and loss system the Government decided what, how and how much to produce. A history of the USSR would illustarte the futality of this endevour. Without a profit and loss system inefficiency sets in, goods are produced that no one wants.

With a profit and loss system inefficicent producers are undercut by their more efficient rivals. Better quality goods are produced at the lowest possible price.

In short Communism would ruin America's economy even more than "Capitalism" has.

And that's not even beginning to touch upon the social side of things - human greed etc.

 

[DND Judgement]

why the hell do people think obama is making america communist... making a national
healthcare service (which does not mean taking over all the existing hosptials) does not make a country communist....

 

[Danzaivar]

I'd hardly call the NHS free. It's about 20% of public spending, which is about 40% of our GDP. The NHS costs about £120 Billion a year which divided by 66 million people means it costs each of us £1791 a year, roughly. I actually looked at how much you can expect to pay for healthcare in America and for most people it's a damn sight cheaper than £1800 (Roughly $2980 for the yanks reading). Ofcourse they have to pay extra for doctors visits but then we have to pay for prescriptions and the dentist too.

You can argue that because it's tax-based then only those who can afford to pay for it actually pay anything, while those who can't afford it don't...but it's still costing our economy a fortune. And to say how bad (and not to mention bureaucratic it is, I know cos my Mum's a nurse who never stops comaplaining when I see her) the service is, it's a completely wasteful operation.

To be slightly more precise, the NHS costs £95-100 billion, and the population of the UK is only 60million, so it's just over £1,500 per person. According to the WHO, the USA is estimated to spend 15% of GDP on healthcare (public and private), in total that's actually nearly 3 times as much per person, over £4,000.

However, in the US that money is disproportionately spent. The richer you are, the better treatment you receive, the poor have healthcare provision that's usually either terrible or even nonexistent. It systematically fails a large proportion of the population, that's why the WHO ranks the US healthcare system below virtually every other developed country on average.

The UK NHS might be inefficient in areas (I agree there, my gf works in it) and might screw up occasionally, but at least it doesn't institutionally disadvantage people.

Apologies, I got my figures slightly wrong (Did a quick google, eheh).

Regarding US spending, personally I think that might have more to do with American culture than anything. Those guys spend a fortune on cosmetic stuff, Plastic surgery is rife and they sure love to have paper-white and super-straight teeth. That's pretty damn expensive dental and cosmetic work that most people in the UK don't bother with (Because 'being a better you' is stuck up and pretentious in the British psyche, but still).

They also call 'pills' 'meds', and they all seem to be taking something, to be fair if you watch US TV the damn things are all over the place in adverts. It's probably to help with 'being a better you' but it's still going to add up with the costs of healthcare over there.

I mean whether or not that actually makes up for the difference in spending between us, I don't know. But I'd wager that the US obsession with perfection will cost a lot more than the British 'If it ain't broke don't fix it' approach to health. There's also mental issues that we just don't get due to our amazing Stoical nature.

 

[space_oddity]

Why is communism a bad idea? Ask all the people who have lived under communist regimes.

 

[DND Judgement]

... The problem with "Communism" is that some people end up more equal than others.

this is not so much the problem but that when people are made equal often most people dislike this idea and then have to be forced to be equal with everone else and that's what makes the dictatorship...

 

[ben---neb]

Yes, I'm talking about YOU, mindless consumers.

SNIP

SNAP

SNIPPY SNAP

Let's assume your computer has at least a 350W power supply, that means for every hour, you're computer is sucking around the same as 35 10w LED light bulbs that could be providing an hour's worth of light to 5/6 of the world's population! Not to mention the power being used for your monitor and perhaps the speakers you may have.

Of course even if he didn't use his computer it won't stop the electricity being produced. Power stations are not going to unbuild themselves because one (or even a few million) people stop using their computers.

And more often than not electricity companies in deveolping countries are nationalised or there is always a fear that they will be nationalised. If only they allowed the free market to rule instead thereby encouraging enterprenurs to come up with cheaper and more reliable ways to produce and sell electricity.

 

[Helicockter]

Communism works brilliantly in the societies humanity evolved in.

Unfortunately, these societies were small roaming bands of hunter gatherers where there was no concept of ownership of land (just a vague territoriality), groups tended to have no more than a dozen or so adult males, and everyone was related through blood or marriage, or at least had grown up together.

When you are doing more work than someone else because they are old, or weak, or have different skills, it's psychologically easier if that person if your great aunt, and helped raise you and taught you how to catch fish. As a species we are keyed in to feel better disposed to people we KNOW and people we are RELATED to (there are good Darwninian reasons for this).

Not that pre-agricultural society was a utopia, life was hard and short and there was certainly conflict between these family groups, but WITHIN a group the society was probably as close to "working" communism, where everything is shared and everyone does what he or she can for the good of the group, as we are ever going to get.

once you start settling down, and farming, and specializing jobs, communities get larger, things get more stratified, people end up doing work that benefits those they do not know personally, and human nature starts to take over. Just as there was conflict between the small internally unified groups pre-settlement, there is now conflict between smaller sub-groups within the new civilization; between families, classes and individuals.

 

[Borrowed Time]

Yes, I'm talking about YOU, mindless consumers.

SNIP

SNAP

SNIPPY SNAP

Let's assume your computer has at least a 350W power supply, that means for every hour, you're computer is sucking around the same as 35 10w LED light bulbs that could be providing an hour's worth of light to 5/6 of the world's population! Not to mention the power being used for your monitor and perhaps the speakers you may have.

Of course even if he didn't use his computer it won't stop the electricity being produced. Power stations are not going to unbuild themselves because one (or even a few million) people stop using their computers.

And more often than not electricity companies in deveolping countries are nationalised or there is always a fear that they will be nationalised. If only they allowed the free market to rule instead thereby encouraging enterprenurs to come up with cheaper and more reliable ways to produce and sell electricity.

If he didn't use his computer, I'd be more inclined to believe he's not part of the problem though.

Power plants don't have to run at 100% capacity 100% of the time. In fact many companies that run power plants look at trends in power consumption in their area and use those numbers to dictate the necessary output of the plants. If several million individuals cut back on their power consumption, the companies would cut back their power production, or at least sell off the excess power to others who need it. Companies don't want waste because it's not profitable and neither do governments (such as anything nationalized) as waste = loss of capital, and i can guarantee you they'd rather be spending that capital elsewhere.

Despite that, all I was saying was that he was as much of a consumer as the "horrible westerners" he's so quick to point the finger at. :shrug:

 

[OriginalError]

hmm... communism isn't bad, people are...

Sadly, it's true. But I think that it's something we can change.

Changing people (for some it would be against their will) is exactly the reason why we need a Government founded on civil liberties. We're missing the greater point on why communism is bad, people tend to focus on "Doctors get paid t3h sam3 as t3h poop cleanerz lololz" and miss the really really important social issues.

In communism, the people don't have a say. Not directly. Every communist (or supposed communist nation) to date has had a State controlled media (for the 'benefit of the people'), a Secret Police to take away dissenters, and an unsurprising lack of freedom of speech.

That, in my opinion, is why America is great. You can stand in front of the white house and chant "Down with capitalism, communism forever!" and you won't be arrested, sequestered into some rat hole and then shot for sedition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989
//J.

 

[Souplex]

That, in my opinion, is why America is great. You can stand in front of the white house and chant "Down with capitalism, communism forever!" and you won't be arrested, sequestered into some rat hole and then shot for sedition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989 In the 50's
//J.

In the 50's you would.

 

[FluffX]

The problem is that someone like, say, Paris Hilton, if she got a job, would get the same amount of money as a Brain Surgeon.

Good in theory, but only in theory.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Too many Americans are afraid of it.
AND, others believe that Obama will make America a communistic society.
But, i see no problem in this. Communism is a great idea if a country already has a stable economy, and hey, free healthcare would be great. It's a great idea it's just been used wrong.

So really, what's wrong with Communism?

The problem with communism is lack of incentives to produce which cause either terrible production or brutal compulsion... or both. It works on a small scale because strong social ties can prevent shirking but falls apart on a large scale because incentives just aren't there.

That said, Obama is not a communist nor is he making America a communist society.

At all.

 

[Agema]

Paris Hilton making the same as a brain surgeon under Communism?

In the current capitalism she's probably making far more than a brain surgeon.