What's Wrong With Communism?
- Thread starter GoldenCondor
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Everything, and I'm not just saying this to be funny. Communism is an unworkable economic system. Under capitalism then what goods are produced are regulated by the Price Mechanism. This works via a profit and loss system. If one good is in higher demand, say Chicken, then the price firms can charge increases so they make more profit. This acts as a signal to other firms that Chicken is highly profitable. Firms switch production to chicken so the incresed demand for chicken leads to an increase in supply. Profits are competed away until demand and supply reach an equlibrium.GoldenCondor said:
A commumist economy gets rid of the Price Mechanism. Now instead of a profit and loss system the Government decided what, how and how much to produce. A history of the USSR would illustarte the futality of this endevour. Without a profit and loss system inefficiency sets in, goods are produced that no one wants.
With a profit and loss system inefficicent producers are undercut by their more efficient rivals. Better quality goods are produced at the lowest possible price.
In short Communism would ruin America's economy even more than "Capitalism" has.
And that's not even beginning to touch upon the social side of things - human greed etc.
why the hell do people think obama is making america communist... making a national
healthcare service (which does not mean taking over all the existing hosptials) does not make a country communist....
healthcare service (which does not mean taking over all the existing hosptials) does not make a country communist....
Apologies, I got my figures slightly wrong (Did a quick google, eheh).Agema said:
Regarding US spending, personally I think that might have more to do with American culture than anything. Those guys spend a fortune on cosmetic stuff, Plastic surgery is rife and they sure love to have paper-white and super-straight teeth. That's pretty damn expensive dental and cosmetic work that most people in the UK don't bother with (Because 'being a better you' is stuck up and pretentious in the British psyche, but still).
They also call 'pills' 'meds', and they all seem to be taking something, to be fair if you watch US TV the damn things are all over the place in adverts. It's probably to help with 'being a better you' but it's still going to add up with the costs of healthcare over there.
I mean whether or not that actually makes up for the difference in spending between us, I don't know. But I'd wager that the US obsession with perfection will cost a lot more than the British 'If it ain't broke don't fix it' approach to health. There's also mental issues that we just don't get due to our amazing Stoical nature.
this is not so much the problem but that when people are made equal often most people dislike this idea and then have to be forced to be equal with everone else and that's what makes the dictatorship...hebdomad said:
Of course even if he didn't use his computer it won't stop the electricity being produced. Power stations are not going to unbuild themselves because one (or even a few million) people stop using their computers.Borrowed Time said:
And more often than not electricity companies in deveolping countries are nationalised or there is always a fear that they will be nationalised. If only they allowed the free market to rule instead thereby encouraging enterprenurs to come up with cheaper and more reliable ways to produce and sell electricity.
Communism works brilliantly in the societies humanity evolved in.
Unfortunately, these societies were small roaming bands of hunter gatherers where there was no concept of ownership of land (just a vague territoriality), groups tended to have no more than a dozen or so adult males, and everyone was related through blood or marriage, or at least had grown up together.
When you are doing more work than someone else because they are old, or weak, or have different skills, it's psychologically easier if that person if your great aunt, and helped raise you and taught you how to catch fish. As a species we are keyed in to feel better disposed to people we KNOW and people we are RELATED to (there are good Darwninian reasons for this).
Not that pre-agricultural society was a utopia, life was hard and short and there was certainly conflict between these family groups, but WITHIN a group the society was probably as close to "working" communism, where everything is shared and everyone does what he or she can for the good of the group, as we are ever going to get.
once you start settling down, and farming, and specializing jobs, communities get larger, things get more stratified, people end up doing work that benefits those they do not know personally, and human nature starts to take over. Just as there was conflict between the small internally unified groups pre-settlement, there is now conflict between smaller sub-groups within the new civilization; between families, classes and individuals.
Unfortunately, these societies were small roaming bands of hunter gatherers where there was no concept of ownership of land (just a vague territoriality), groups tended to have no more than a dozen or so adult males, and everyone was related through blood or marriage, or at least had grown up together.
When you are doing more work than someone else because they are old, or weak, or have different skills, it's psychologically easier if that person if your great aunt, and helped raise you and taught you how to catch fish. As a species we are keyed in to feel better disposed to people we KNOW and people we are RELATED to (there are good Darwninian reasons for this).
Not that pre-agricultural society was a utopia, life was hard and short and there was certainly conflict between these family groups, but WITHIN a group the society was probably as close to "working" communism, where everything is shared and everyone does what he or she can for the good of the group, as we are ever going to get.
once you start settling down, and farming, and specializing jobs, communities get larger, things get more stratified, people end up doing work that benefits those they do not know personally, and human nature starts to take over. Just as there was conflict between the small internally unified groups pre-settlement, there is now conflict between smaller sub-groups within the new civilization; between families, classes and individuals.
If he didn't use his computer, I'd be more inclined to believe he's not part of the problem though.ben---neb said:
Power plants don't have to run at 100% capacity 100% of the time. In fact many companies that run power plants look at trends in power consumption in their area and use those numbers to dictate the necessary output of the plants. If several million individuals cut back on their power consumption, the companies would cut back their power production, or at least sell off the excess power to others who need it. Companies don't want waste because it's not profitable and neither do governments (such as anything nationalized) as waste = loss of capital, and i can guarantee you they'd rather be spending that capital elsewhere.
Despite that, all I was saying was that he was as much of a consumer as the "horrible westerners" he's so quick to point the finger at. :shrug:
Changing people (for some it would be against their will) is exactly the reason why we need a Government founded on civil liberties. We're missing the greater point on why communism is bad, people tend to focus on "Doctors get paid t3h sam3 as t3h poop cleanerz lololz" and miss the really really important social issues.Akai Shizuku said:
In communism, the people don't have a say. Not directly. Every communist (or supposed communist nation) to date has had a State controlled media (for the 'benefit of the people'), a Secret Police to take away dissenters, and an unsurprising lack of freedom of speech.
That, in my opinion, is why America is great. You can stand in front of the white house and chant "Down with capitalism, communism forever!" and you won't be arrested, sequestered into some rat hole and then shot for sedition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989
//J.
The problem with communism is lack of incentives to produce which cause either terrible production or brutal compulsion... or both. It works on a small scale because strong social ties can prevent shirking but falls apart on a large scale because incentives just aren't there.GoldenCondor said:
That said, Obama is not a communist nor is he making America a communist society.
At all.
no, that's incorrect.
*Government* spending on healthcare in the US is actually higher than in any other developed country, before you even think about insurance or electives. Sure it's not a huge amount more but it IS more, and once you ass in insurance and private costs, the per capita average is approximately double that of any other nation. all that for healthcare which, for the vast majority of normal people, is less effective than the British NHS, Canadian healthcare etc.
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m255/NEactuary/HCspending.jpg shows it well
The reason the government ends up spending even more than an effective nationalised or semi-nationalised system to pay for substandard care for only the uninsured/elderly/veterens is largely because of the insurance gap in the US. As 20% or so of the population have no insurance at all, and a great many more have such poor insurance they cannot afford the copays for basic healthcare or are excluded from coverage for most problems, they only seek treatment in the event of catastrophic ill health. This is provided in the ER, and costs tens of times more than the preventative care or early intervention which "socialised" healthcare stresses.
In the UK, if you have an infected cut, you go to your GP, get it checked, and if it is something dangerous, you get it cleaned out and get antibiotics or whatever. this costs the individual nothing, and comes out of the tax pot. lets say the visit, procedure and check ups cost the government £200. In the US, far too many people cannot or will not PAY the £300 it would cost them for the same set of treatments (why higher? single payer efficiencies as well as the fact that hospitals bump their prices to cover the losses from emergency treatment of the unisnured) or the £50 co pay that comes with their £200 a month insurance, so they don't get the minor infection treated and hope it will just go away. 50% of the time, it does. However, the other 50% of the time, it gets worse. 3 weeks later, it has turned into a massive deep tissue infection and is causing blood poisoning and gangrene. The ER treatment to clean out the wound, remove a large chunk of flesh and several digits, pump in hardcore antibiotics, provide aftercare and recuperation is £10,000. There is no way the sick guy can pay this, so the government has to.
So a nation like France, that has a massive immigrant population (a lot being illegal), can handle Healthcare with one of the best Healthcare systems in the world, but America can't. C'mon man, you're being beaten by the French...that's just sad.RareDevil said:
Cha!!. he is right though commuinism looks like a gift from god on paper, but human flaws like greed and selfishness ruin the system every time. Take Russia and its paranoid leader, Joseph Stalin. You can also look at Cuba and Fidel Castro, who has been in power for like a fricken enternity. Also, look at China (they have to kill because of their population), North Korea (Their leader said somehting along the lines of " We are going to wipe the americans off of this earth". that coupled with recent nuclear testing and an average salary of about $47) and Vietnam (poverty!!) and more.Pandalisk said:
Also, who the fuck thinks Obama is truing us commuinist. That just a load of bullshit from some disgruntled republicans.
people always say that communism sucks because a doctor makes more than a janitor but if you think about it, menial roles suck as janitors, bin men etc are hated in western countries whereas in communist countries they are accepted
the reason people get paid the same is because university is free, if you want a decent education then you can do so regardless of your families background (as everyone has the same background). people become doctors because they actually want to save peoples lives rather than becoming a doctor for the huge salary, this is also why Cuba has one of the best healthcare systems in the world. not the mention that 98% of people in Cuba are literate
its just a different way of thinking, its actually very enlightening because the world doesnt revolve around money. i recommend you visit Cuba and talk to some people there, you get mixed reactions but generally most people are happy with the communist system
the reason people get paid the same is because university is free, if you want a decent education then you can do so regardless of your families background (as everyone has the same background). people become doctors because they actually want to save peoples lives rather than becoming a doctor for the huge salary, this is also why Cuba has one of the best healthcare systems in the world. not the mention that 98% of people in Cuba are literate
its just a different way of thinking, its actually very enlightening because the world doesnt revolve around money. i recommend you visit Cuba and talk to some people there, you get mixed reactions but generally most people are happy with the communist system
