What's Wrong With Communism?

[Helicockter]

Apologies, I got my figures slightly wrong (Did a quick google, eheh).

Regarding US spending, personally I think that might have more to do with American culture than anything. Those guys spend a fortune on cosmetic stuff, Plastic surgery is rife and they sure love to have paper-white and super-straight teeth. That's pretty damn expensive dental and cosmetic work that most people in the UK don't bother with (Because 'being a better you' is stuck up and pretentious in the British psyche, but still).

no, that's incorrect.

*Government* spending on healthcare in the US is actually higher than in any other developed country, before you even think about insurance or electives. Sure it's not a huge amount more but it IS more, and once you ass in insurance and private costs, the per capita average is approximately double that of any other nation. all that for healthcare which, for the vast majority of normal people, is less effective than the British NHS, Canadian healthcare etc.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m255/NEactuary/HCspending.jpg shows it well

The reason the government ends up spending even more than an effective nationalised or semi-nationalised system to pay for substandard care for only the uninsured/elderly/veterens is largely because of the insurance gap in the US. As 20% or so of the population have no insurance at all, and a great many more have such poor insurance they cannot afford the copays for basic healthcare or are excluded from coverage for most problems, they only seek treatment in the event of catastrophic ill health. This is provided in the ER, and costs tens of times more than the preventative care or early intervention which "socialised" healthcare stresses.

In the UK, if you have an infected cut, you go to your GP, get it checked, and if it is something dangerous, you get it cleaned out and get antibiotics or whatever. this costs the individual nothing, and comes out of the tax pot. lets say the visit, procedure and check ups cost the government £200. In the US, far too many people cannot or will not PAY the £300 it would cost them for the same set of treatments (why higher? single payer efficiencies as well as the fact that hospitals bump their prices to cover the losses from emergency treatment of the unisnured) or the £50 co pay that comes with their £200 a month insurance, so they don't get the minor infection treated and hope it will just go away. 50% of the time, it does. However, the other 50% of the time, it gets worse. 3 weeks later, it has turned into a massive deep tissue infection and is causing blood poisoning and gangrene. The ER treatment to clean out the wound, remove a large chunk of flesh and several digits, pump in hardcore antibiotics, provide aftercare and recuperation is £10,000. There is no way the sick guy can pay this, so the government has to.

 

[Manbro]

True Socialism/Communism is a noble idea I think. But it can never be applied to real world life because it is usually tainted by corrupt governments. America would do well to adopt a bit less of an intensely capitilistic stance though. A better healthcare system would benefit everyone greatly, however at the moment it's only for those who can afford it.

I strongly disagree with this. American's are would not react well to an increase in taxes, especially when the nation is divided by their views on illegal immigrants. I fear that the change could lead to severe civil unrest. Especial after Obama has been pitching money to failing businesses like Bush pitched balls at yankee stadium.

So a nation like France, that has a massive immigrant population (a lot being illegal), can handle Healthcare with one of the best Healthcare systems in the world, but America can't. C'mon man, you're being beaten by the French...that's just sad.

 

[Captain Schpack]

Good in theory bad in practice,

Cha!!. he is right though commuinism looks like a gift from god on paper, but human flaws like greed and selfishness ruin the system every time. Take Russia and its paranoid leader, Joseph Stalin. You can also look at Cuba and Fidel Castro, who has been in power for like a fricken enternity. Also, look at China (they have to kill because of their population), North Korea (Their leader said somehting along the lines of " We are going to wipe the americans off of this earth". that coupled with recent nuclear testing and an average salary of about $47) and Vietnam (poverty!!) and more.

Also, who the fuck thinks Obama is truing us commuinist. That just a load of bullshit from some disgruntled republicans.

 

[keinushi]

according to Marx, nothing. Provided the country goes through capitalism first. Russia skipped capitalism, thereby fucking everything up

 

[shootthebandit]

people always say that communism sucks because a doctor makes more than a janitor but if you think about it, menial roles suck as janitors, bin men etc are hated in western countries whereas in communist countries they are accepted

the reason people get paid the same is because university is free, if you want a decent education then you can do so regardless of your families background (as everyone has the same background). people become doctors because they actually want to save peoples lives rather than becoming a doctor for the huge salary, this is also why Cuba has one of the best healthcare systems in the world. not the mention that 98% of people in Cuba are literate

its just a different way of thinking, its actually very enlightening because the world doesnt revolve around money. i recommend you visit Cuba and talk to some people there, you get mixed reactions but generally most people are happy with the communist system

 

[Koeryn]

Simple answer that stays out of politics but is true with ANY and ALL forms (or lack there) of government: Human nature is what's wrong.

 

[shootthebandit]

according to Marx, nothing. Provided the country goes through capitalism first. Russia skipped capitalism, thereby fucking everything up

what about that massive period in history when the tsar (czar, or whatever way you spell it) ruled russia

 

[mikecoulter]

It doesn't work properly. That's what's wrong.

 

[lewism247]

anyone here read animal farm, that explains why esecially in a line
"everyone is equal, but some people are more equal than others"

 

[shootthebandit]

It doesn't work. If everyone gets the same, then what is the point in working?

exactly, you have a typical western view on communism. the reason people work is because they have to work to get money just like you and i (in Cuba anyway)

in cuba, everyone gets money from the government (if you work or not) this is not enough to live on so people need to get a job. once you start working the government gives you a wage and everyone gets the same wage. Although as i went to cuba on holiday, the people who work in tourism make a little bit more than everyone else because they get tips.

i was talking to one person in Cuba who was in university studying to be a lawyer whilst working as a waiter, they earned more as a waiter because they got tips but they wanted to be a lawyer for justice. its different how people are motivated to get a better job for reasons other than money

 

[DSQ]

Communism will never work.

It relies way too much on people to get along and be nice.

True but that doesn't mean Capitalism works either.
Try socialism.

Basicaly Communism needs a change in values (Like people working for the comunity rather than just themselves)not just a change of system.

 

[G1eet]

(if FOX is a reliable news source, that is).

HA.

Watch either the Daily Show with Jon Stewart or the Colbert Report, both are reliable news sources. They're not biased to either wing; they make fun of both sides.

 

[shootthebandit]

It doesn't work. If everyone gets the same, then what is the point in working?

exactly, you have a typical western view on communism. the reason people work is because they have to work to get money just like you and i (in Cuba anyway)

in cuba, everyone gets money from the government (if you work or not) this is not enough to live on so people need to get a job. once you start working the government gives you a wage and everyone gets the same wage. Although as i went to cuba on holiday, the people who work in tourism make a little bit more than everyone else because they get tips.

i was talking to one person in Cuba who was in university studying to be a lawyer whilst working as a waiter, they earned more as a waiter because they got tips but they wanted to be a lawyer for justice. its different how people are motivated to get a better job for reasons other than money

And the Western view of Communism (actually a misconception - I'm English) would also be the Western attitude. Therefore people simply would not work, or the lack of jobs (in case you hadn't noticed, there are millions unemployed over here) would lead to the unemployed all living in poverty, due to the lack of benefits. They are already borderline poverty anyway!

So it might work in Cuba, but don't bring it over here.

exactly my point, it wouldnt work here but it does work in other countries. because in britian we have alot of people who dont work because they are to lazy and if everyone was getting the same, they definatly wouldnt work.

also not to mention that britain is more left-wing (closer to communism, im sure you already know this) than America, we get free health care and education (although not university, unless you are from scotland) but we also earn different wages depending on our job and we also have lots of consumer goods so we have the best of both worlds

 

[Kojii Doom]

Communism's biggest problem is that it's not as cool as a dictatorship.

 

[Seanchaidh]

according to Marx, nothing. Provided the country goes through capitalism first. Russia skipped capitalism, thereby fucking everything up

what about that massive period in history when the tsar (czar, or whatever way you spell it) ruled russia

That was feudalism.

 

[Numb1lp]

Oh yeah, propoganda like how Joseph Stalin killed more people than Hitler? Remember the Berlin Wall? People were willing to die to get to the Democratic side. You really think America is so bad, go to China and tell me (figuring your not jailed) how great it is. A thread like this wouldn't exsist in a Communist America...

 

[EZmacilx]

All we need to do is live in a highly religious communist society! That'll do it, until we get one of those crazy fuckers who want to rule the world in the name of god...

 

[Dudemeister]

Isn't Communism basicaly the opposite of what America was founded on?

No.
All men are born equal ?
Sounds quite Communistic to me.

 

[dontworryaboutit]

Socialism is meant to demonize greed, and in one day, let children grow up in a society without knowing greed or totally repressing it, just as we do not think it is OK to go rape a woman on the street just because we think she looks attractive. Sure, there will be deficits, but without a law and order system corrupted to protect and serve the rich, powerful and dishonest, they will be swiftly taken care of.

What, are we going to start liquidating them?

 

[Cowabungaa]

What's wrong with it you ask? Simple: it doesn't work. Yes it looks great on paper, but the problem is that communism assumes that humans are like ants. But humans don't work like ants, that's a fact. Shame in a way, ants are pretty damned succesfull. Just look at the little buggers, heck I wished humans were so efficient sometimes. Ant colonies are communism at it's best, but that's simply not how humans are hard-wired.

Isn't Communism basicaly the opposite of what America was founded on?

No.
All men are born equal ?
Sounds quite Communistic to me.

Nah not really. I think that the founders of America ment that as: all men are born equal worthy, as in no person is worth more than the other, but they don't forget the fact that everyone is different, just that different doesn't mean worse. Communism takes "equal" completely literally. Also, America was founded with individual freedom as a point of reference, communism is all about working together for one big common goal.