WHat if a minor argued for loli? Would you still say that it was wrong and they would understand if they where a parent?Danish rage said:
Where is the justice?
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Few points:LegendaryGamer0 said:
-Those games are around twenty years* old.
-There is barely any violence depicted. Due to the limited technology it's not really graphic at all. The article in question (and my posts) are dealing with graphic violence.
-Regardless, I'm glad we have moved past that in our video games.
edit: ten years.
- Not even close.Kortney said:
-This is considered graphic violence. Just because the tech is old doesn't mean it isn't "graphic".
-Regardless, it technically means we no longer have the kind of freedom we used to in games. Not that I'm saying that killing children is a good thing(it's not), it means that devs these days are wimps.
Plus, Fallout 3.
Look for it on YouTube, I ain't getting banned because you want to see kids die.
Not even remotely fair, I agree. It appears that they have forgotten why such laws were made- to protect real, breathing children. Who the hell cares about drawn child pornography?
Fuck, my Deviantart favourites folder does have some violent, even gory images- things would be illegal in real life, but you cannot arrest someone on possession of depictions of illegal acts.
If no one gets hurt, no one needs punishment. This is law enforcement for the sake of law enforcement.
And, yeah, I do hear the argument that such images might entice one to illegal action. This argument is amusing, especially as most of us seem to agree that videogames cannot be blamed for real world violence. Oh, sex is involved? Well, this clearly changes everything.
Fuck, my Deviantart favourites folder does have some violent, even gory images- things would be illegal in real life, but you cannot arrest someone on possession of depictions of illegal acts.
If no one gets hurt, no one needs punishment. This is law enforcement for the sake of law enforcement.
And, yeah, I do hear the argument that such images might entice one to illegal action. This argument is amusing, especially as most of us seem to agree that videogames cannot be blamed for real world violence. Oh, sex is involved? Well, this clearly changes everything.
Sorry, that was nothing more than a typo on my end. Freudian slip.LegendaryGamer0 said:
Considered graphic? By who? Not even close by today's standards or the standards that animated child porn artists draw.LegendaryGamer0 said:
Even so, that point was an aside (hence the "regardless") in my next point. Whether it's graphic or not - it doesn't change the validity of my views. I believe that it is wrong to be able to kill children in video games.
Wimps?LegendaryGamer0 said:
Yeah and sportsmen these days are wimps too. Have you seen them? They don't kill each other anymore!
Damn that stupid morality changing on us! We used to be able to own slaves! *shakes fist* *yells out window* CURSE YOU EVOLVING SOCIETAL VIEWS ON MORALITY!
Seriously? Why did you have to say that? When did I ever say suggest that I wanted to watch children die? Stop trying to bait an argument. You are doing nothing more than that with that sentence. Terrible form.LegendaryGamer0 said:
Judging from your earlier post in a thread where you supported the idea of men carrying around pillows of naked twelve year old girls drawn on them, having sex with them and completely ignoring reality, I don't think we are going to see eye to eye. Leave it.
Slips happen.Kortney said:
By todays standards, but it was considered the cutting edge is graphics. It doesn't prevent it from still being Graphic.
I believe if it is an option, it is up to the person playing to choose to do it. Obviously, considering who/what I am, I don't.
Yes, wimps.
Damn people thinkin duels are barbaric.
seriousnow.jpg
The morality hasn't changed. It's that Interplay had the balls to put that in the game. Good for them for having the balls.
That sentenced was directed at anyone that clicked the spoiler, not just you. It's a small potshot at anyone that clicks. Kind of like a certain thumbnail image that tends to be posted on various chans that involves a certain Loli from Ichigo Mashimaro.
Hehe. HAHAHA. Just that thread? Hell, you'd better not look at the other bits of my post history then. You'd despise me, guaranteed.
I'll leave it. Not because you asked, but because my PS3 just finished it's download of the Dead Space 2 Demo and I need to open the door for someone because they are carrying a lot of things.
OT: I cannot go to Sweden, I'd be put to death.
Damn Feminazis.
This is idiotic.
Possession of a drawing is possession of a drawing. It doesn't matter what it's a drawing of, it's a drawing.
Edit: The reason CP is illegal is because it cannot be created without a child being abused. The same is obviously not true of drawings.
Possession of a drawing is possession of a drawing. It doesn't matter what it's a drawing of, it's a drawing.
Edit: The reason CP is illegal is because it cannot be created without a child being abused. The same is obviously not true of drawings.
Well, a single cuss word and a post basically claiming that I have no reason to be concerned about something unless the police are actively banging on my door. Also, I'm not entirely surprised that this particular issue is making its way through a court system somewhere, but I'm also not willing to settle for humanity being judgemental and our misguided attempts to fix problems.Aby_Z said:
Now, my biggest problem is with the way you're defining the issue here. You're saying that we should just expect for anything considered abnormal or taboo by society to be persecuted, and that the best solution is to keep it all under wraps. Please, share this opinion with gays, people who don't belong to the majority religion in their area, and especially gamers. We engage in a hobby that a large portion of society still considers abnormal. We play games where sadistically harming and killing human beings- sometimes innocent humans, by the way- is completely normal, and that's not even touching games that deal with issues like slavery, prostitution, black magic, drug abuse, and a whole bunch of other topics that are considered "taboo."
What happens when American politicians- some of whom are currently working on legislation for government regulation of M-rated video games- take a case like the one in Sweden and start waving it around as a precedent to claim that fictional representations of things are equal to the real thing? Suddenly, it's my problem.
My main point is that it's easy to look at the small picture here; someone in Sweden is being fined because the courts believe that manga depicting children in sexual situations counts as child pornography. However, and I'll gladly repeat myself, this issue has the potential to blow up quickly and spread into areas that do affect all of us.
I thought of another thing last night that made me realise how unfair this is...TheAmazingHobo said:
Lolicon in this case is classed as CP right? And why is it classed to be it? Because it's depictions of minors in sexual situations. So why is this a bad thing? Well, because the minors in the CP are harmed and exploited, they'll carry wounds for life and all that horrible stuff.
But wait, lolicon doesn't actually do anything like that. No children are harmed in the process of making the images or the videos. So why is lolicon bad? The argument just goes in circles, "lolicon is bad, because there are children in it, therefore it's bad". It doesn't hold up, because it doesn't have those factors that make actual CP so fucking terrible.
I honestly think that no one is making an adequate case here against or for the existence of lolicon. And I think that before they ruin a guys life by taking his job away based on only biased feelings, which is not fair or justice, they should think through their own stance in this matter. Because right now I see no good reason why this is so horrible.
extra points for anyone who knows why.
And yes I had to make that image myself.
Also: gateway drugs. Whilst a form of the slippery slope argument, I think in this case it's justified, drawings of little girls being abused and photos of little girls being abused are too similar for comfort, and one may well lead to the other.
It's both my personal view and my attempt to play the Devil's Advocate in one.GotMalkAvian said:
The personal part is the fact that the greater whole cannot be changed for the better. The entirety of society and the human race in general is a doomed existence that will only either kill itself or pollute, corrupt, and destroy the universe. In realizing this, I stop caring about many things and just do as I please, trying to enjoy myself, and I do what I must to keep being able to do that. That point of view is neither here nor there, though.
I'm not talking about other taboos. If you want to get into other things, I'll just bring out the timeline; homosexuality was a lot more common in the past, as was everything else you listed. Things changed as society changed, creating and decrying more taboos, and once again society has started to change and get rid of some of those taboos.
When it comes to child pornography, or just general sex with, "underage girls," that used to be a rather common practice, and hell it's still fairly common and upheld by some Islamic countries[footnote]I'm sure other countries have also upheld such practices, but they are not foremost on my mind currently.[/footnote]. For the most part, however, society as a whole has come together to say that sex with a young girl is wrong. There's a nice amount of reason behind this which may or may not be relevant to the case at hand, but that's what turned CP into an overall social taboo.I don't see CP ever truly becoming justifiable again unless we start going backwards socially. For every person who can clearly understand the difference between reality and fiction, there are those who can't, or those who don't want to see that difference or otherwise just complain, whether their reasons be for religion, "the common good," or what have you.
Now, this case is in Sweden. Their laws are rather different than other places, for instance the US. They wouldn't have the same ability to easily convict someone over here as they do over there, granted a super conservative jury isn't purposely created. Depending on the material you've been caught with, the easier it will be to get out of a fine or whatever. If you're just watching something like a schoolgirl anime, lets just say Azumanga Daioh, then you can easily make your case; there's nothing even remotely sexual about it, so it can't be CP. If you've been reading some hentai, however, it'll be a tad harder. That's something for you to worry about though, not me.
When it comes to that bill Tokyo decided to pass, for one everyone is against it. Isihara is a hypocrite and a bigot, and he's blind to the consequences. I won't be surprised when the bill is repealed soon. In either case, it's not an "anti-loli bill" as was so clearly misinterpreted on these boards oh-so long ago, but a bill that makes any manga that depicts an illegal act 18+, and moves it to the porn isle. You could go to stores now and see the most innocent stuff - manga absolutely devoid of any erotic material - in the porn aisle.
When it comes to games, it's a rather similar situation, and if they were ever to be outlawed in such a way there'd certainly be an outcry.
My point is that it's useless to get worried, pissed off, or otherwise upset about things like this - things that don't actually affect you. Why waste your time - waste your life - worrying about something so small and easily remedied given the right amount of time?
Also, paragraph spacing is rather nice. I suggest you do it too.
