Whistleblowing Nurse: ICE may be doing an ethnic cleansing via sterilization

[lil devils x]

It's fine, the topic itself is worth discussing, but these genocide apologists are just gigantic pieces of shit who ended up taking over the discussion by spouting their nonsense, which can't really hide their stupidity.

Anyways my point is that this works the other way around too, you're giving him more space to discuss his moronic ideas and other people with the same inclination that might be more on the fence might gravitate towards the new excuses he provides in each response, understanding that genocide is bad shouldn't be a hard thing and it definitely shouldn't require a whole thread to discuss, you're wasting you're time and energy trying to educate this scum.


Also I'm not sorry for insulting these assholes, they are arguing for my people to be locked up in tiny cages, castrated and otherwise have all their human rights completely ignored, a lot of people that I know and care about are deported illegal immigrants and if these things that are surfacing happened to any of them, you're fucking right I'm pissed, you people don't get to treat my friends like that, you don't get to treat anyone like that so sincerely, fuck you guys.

That is just it though, we have MILLIONS of these people who think that this is somehow excusable or justified due to whatever concoctions their minds have allowed them to invent as a " reasonable " excuse to commit atrocities. You are right to condemn them for this abhorrent behavior that should be universally condemned. The thing is though, people who think this are often not even having these horrific ideas and actions challenged at all, as they exist in their social circle bubbles allowing them to justify among themselves this being someone okay or acceptable to do. By actually challenging them and exposing them for what they are, fact checking their lies and misinformation, it becomes more difficult for them to justify these things when they see that what they thought was false. Even if it changes the mind of one person who thought that what these people said were true, that is one less person thinking this is okay to turn a blind eye to. It is better for them to discuss these things in a space like this that they actually have their horrific ideas challenged than doing so in a space where everyone agrees with them allowing such things to come to fruition as they have. At least discussing these things here, these terrible ideas and actions are opposed, whereas if they discuss these in their own political circle, they just have people supporting them.

IF we ever hope to actually make sure these things never happen again and cease to exist, we have to change minds to keep it from happening and sometimes that may be one person at a time, but that is what it actually takes in the end to finally put an end to it. You shouldn't feel bad for insulting someone who is promoting treating others as sub human, they need to know that what they are promoting here is repulsive and disgusting on every level and there can never be any justification for it.

 

[lil devils x]

Well, except for those 28 people burnt alive from an "accidental" cigarette.

The gasoline, sure, that was intentional. And sure, they didn’t warn them it was flammable, and when they did it was rarely in Spanish. But who would imagine that people in the early 20th century smoked?

Those people burned by the cigarette were only a tiny amount of those who were doused in deadly chemicals. The US intentionally not keeping records on what happened to them afterwards does not mean they didn't have health complications and/or die as a result. These immigrants were not some superhuman immune to the effects of these chemicals, the US just chose not to document what happened to them. That is not evidence that they survived either. When you understand what those chemicals listed above actually do, there is no doubt these people had to have suffered greatly as a result. No mention of their deaths does not mean the deaths didn't happen. It is just they didn't want to talk about that. Hell if it were not for " whistleblowers" now, we would not even know what is happening to the people here now. back in 1917, you had even less people willing to talk. If it weren't for riots, people likely wouldn't be talking about them using gasoline, kerosene, sodium cyanide, cyanogens, sulfuric acid, and Zyklon B on them even now. We would just go on pretending like that never happened at all EVEN though it went on for another 40 years after.

 

[Revnak]

Those people burned by the cigarette were only a tiny amount of those who were doused in deadly chemicals. The US intentionally not keeping records on what happened to them afterwards does not mean they didn't have health complications and/or die as a result. These immigrants were not some superhuman immune to the effects of these chemicals, the US just chose not to document what happened to them. That is not evidence that they survived either. When you understand what those chemicals listed above actually do, there is no doubt these people had to have suffered greatly as a result.

Yeah. That’s obviously true. But poison is only poison if someone proves a person died because of it, who could have died of any number of things, who knows really? Is anything poison? People just die sometimes, there’s no reason behind it. Anyway, if they did die they were breaking the law, and laws are immutable elements of the social contract, and we can’t just break the social contract. Words are reality. Reality is a fiction. The real is meaningless, the realm of forms holds all meaning. The fires of man’s creation project images along the wall. I will reverse this metaphor to prove that the images are the true reality and reality is the images. I am very smart.

 

[lil devils x]

Yeah. That’s obviously true. But poison is only poison if someone proves a person died because of it, who could have died of any number of things, who knows really? Is anything poison? People just die sometimes, there’s no reason behind it. Anyway, if they did die they were breaking the law, and laws are immutable elements of the social contract, and we can’t just break the social contract. Words are reality. Reality is a fiction. The real is meaningless, the realm of forms holds all meaning. The fires of man’s creation project images along the wall. I will reverse this metaphor to prove that the images are the true reality and reality is the images. I am very smart.

 

[Revnak]

I really don’t like how deep of a strange insight you have into my mind.

 

[Houseman]

fact checking their lies and misinformation

gasoline, kerosene, sodium cyanide, cyanogens, sulfuric acid, and Zyklon B

Your own Wikipedia article states that Zyklon B was only used on the clothes to kill the lice, not on the people. Stop spreading lies and misinformation.

 

[Revnak]

Your own Wikipedia article states that Zyklon B was only used on the clothes to kill the lice, not on the people. Stop spreading lies and misinformation.

Because none of the other chemicals were dangerous and having your clothes fumigated with Zyklon B every day probably doesn’t hurt anyone.

 

[lil devils x]

Your own Wikipedia article states that Zyklon B was only used on the clothes to kill the lice, not on the people. Stop spreading lies and misinformation.

It can be absorbed through the SKIN:

The use of Zyklon B became habitual. Health officers would spray the immigrants’ clothes. Now, Zyklon B, in gaseous form, is fatal when absorbed through the skin in concentrations of over 50 parts ppm. How many Mexicans suffered agonies or died, when they put on those garments? As Romo recently told the El Paso-based journalist Paul Spike, writing for the online UK daily The First Post:

“This is a huge black hole in history. Unfortunately, I only have oral histories and other anecdotal evidence about the harmful effects of the noxious chemicals used to disinfect and delouse the Mexican border crossers–including deaths, birth defects, cancer, etc. It may well go into the tens of thousands. It’s incredible that absolutely no one, after all these years, has ever attempted to document this.”

A Short History of Zyklon B on the US-Mexican Border (Please Don't Share With Donald Trump)

Inspection of Mexican immigrants by the US Public Health Service. Zyklon B came to El Paso in the 1920s. In 1929, for example, a U.S. Public Health

www.counterpunch.org

Skin absorption was already addressed here:

Whistleblowing Nurse: ICE may be doing an ethnic cleansing via sterilization

Okay, how many people died from a direct result of these baths? Not counting those who were set on fire after a cigarette ignited the flammable gas, of course. You say that these baths were made and used to commit genocide. So how many died as a result? Hundreds? Thousands? Hundreds of...

forums.escapistmagazine.com

Quit trying to act like this was not as bad as it was. It really was that bad.

 

[lil devils x]

Because none of the other chemicals were dangerous and having your clothes fumigated with Zyklon B every day probably doesn’t hurt anyone.

Right because absorbing it through your skin from your clothing was somehow not just as bad..

• TIME COURSE: Effects occur extremely rapidly following exposure to hydrogen cyanide (AC). After inhalation exposure, symptoms begin within seconds to minutes; death may occur within minutes. After skin exposure, onset of symptoms may be immediate or delayed for 30 to 60 minutes. Ingestion of hydrogen cyanide (AC) solutions or cyanide salts can be rapidly fatal. The time of onset of effects depends on the concentration and duration of exposure.
• EFFECTS OF SHORT-TERM (LESS THAN 8-HOURS) EXPOSURE: Early symptoms of cyanide poisoning include lightheadedness, giddiness, rapid breathing, nausea, vomiting (emesis), feeling of neck constriction and suffocation, confusion, restlessness, and anxiety. Accumulation of fluid in the lungs (pulmonary edema) may complicate severe intoxications. Rapid breathing is soon followed by respiratory depression/respiratory arrest (cessation of breathing). Severe cyanide poisonings progress to stupor, coma, muscle spasms (in which head, neck, and spine are arched backwards), convulsions (seizures), fixed and dilated pupils, and death. The CNS is the most sensitive target organ of cyanide poisoning. Cardiovascular effects require higher cyanide doses than those necessary for CNS effects. In serious poisonings, the skin is cold, clammy, and diaphoretic. Blue discoloration of the skin may be a late finding. Severe signs of oxygen deprivation in the absence of blue discoloration of the skin suggest cyanide poisoning.
• EYE EXPOSURE:
  • Irritation.
  • Contact with only the eyes does not normally result in whole-body (systemic) toxicity.
  • Contact with the eyes can contribute to whole-body (systemic) toxicity. See Inhalation Exposure.
• INGESTION EXPOSURE:
  • Burning sensation in mouth and throat, nausea, vomiting (emesis), and abdominal pain.
  • Whole-body (systemic) toxicity can occur. See Inhalation Exposure.
• INHALATION EXPOSURE:
  • Mild to moderate: CNS effects: headache, confusion, anxiety, dizziness, weakness (malaise), and loss of consciousness. Cardiovascular effects: palpitations. Respiratory effects: respiratory tract irritation, difficulty breathing or shortness of breath (dyspnea), and transient increase in the rate and depth of breathing (hyperpnea). GI effects: nausea and vomiting (emesis).
  • Severe: CNS effects: coma, seizures, and dilated pupils (mydriasis). Cardiovascular effects: shock, abnormal or disordered heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), critically low blood pressure, and cardiac arrest. Respiratory effects: abnormally rapid, followed by abnormally slow respirations; accumulation of fluid in the lungs (pulmonary edema); and respiratory arrest. Eye effects: dilated pupils, inflammation of the surface of the eye, and temporary blindness.
• SKIN EXPOSURE:
  • Irritation.
  • Absorption through the skin is rapid and can contribute to whole-body (systemic) toxicity. See Inhalation Exposure.
  • Absorption through the skin occurs more readily when ambient temperature and relative humidity are high.

Hydrogen Cyanide (AC): Systemic Agent | NIOSH | CDC

Hydrogen cyanide (AC) is a systemic chemical asphyxiant. It interferes with the normal use of oxygen by nearly every organ of the body. Exposure to hydrogen cyanide (AC) can be rapidly fatal.

www.cdc.gov

Nah... and Texas isn't known for this stupidly high humidity or anything..

US Weather - Relative Humidity Map | WeatherCentral.com

US weather current relative humidity map.

www.weathercentral.com

It's Not Just Texas: Dangerous Heat And Humidity Are Threatening The South

The National Weather Service posted heat advisories and warnings from the New Mexico-Texas border eastward to parts of Alabama — Texas, Oklahoma,…

www.keranews.org

 

[Houseman]

It can be absorbed through the SKIN:

First it has to be on your skin. Do you have any evidence to suggest it was?
Say you saturate a shirt with Zyklon B and then put it on. Is this dangerous? Do we know how long the chemical persists on clothing?

It really was that bad.

Yeah, so bad, you don't even have a single shred of evidence that it caused anyone a bit of harm. That's how bad it was.

 

[lil devils x]

First it has to be on your skin. Do you have any evidence to suggest it was?
Say you saturate a shirt with Zyklon B and then put it on. Is this dangerous? Do we know how long the chemical persists on clothing?



Yeah, so bad, you don't even have a single shred of evidence causing anyone a bit of harm. That's how bad it was.

They only estimate tens of thousands, that is all. No one has ever attempted to document it. You trying to make it out to be less than harmful when all the other chemicals they directly sprayed people with are also just as bad. There is no excuse for attempting to downplay this tbh.

This is how you are advised to handle clothing:

• Disposing of your clothes:
  • After you have washed yourself, place your clothing inside a plastic bag. Avoid touching contaminated areas of the clothing. If you can’t avoid touching contaminated areas, or you aren’t sure where the contaminated areas are, wear rubber gloves or turn the bag inside out and use it to pick up the clothes, inverting the bag over the clothes when you have all the clothes picked up. An alternative method is to put the clothes in the bag using tongs, tool handles, sticks, or similar objects. Anything that touches the contaminated clothing should also be placed in the bag. If you wear contacts, put them in the plastic bag, too.
  • Seal the bag, and then seal that bag inside another plastic bag. Disposing of your clothing in this way will help protect you and other people from any chemicals that might be on your clothes.
  • When the local or state health department or emergency personnel arrive, tell them what you did with your clothes. The health department or emergency personnel will arrange for further disposal. Do not handle the plastic bags yourself.
• For more information about cleaning your body and disposing of your clothes after a chemical release, see Chemical Agents: Facts About Personal Cleaning and Disposal of Contaminated Clothing.
• Seek medical attention right away. Dial 911 and explain what has happened.

CDC | Facts About Cyanide

Information on terrorism and public health. Provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

emergency.cdc.gov

 

[Revnak]

Waiting for him to ask why the Mexican Government didn’t document it. Waiting for it.

 

[Houseman]

No one has ever attempted to document it.

We know.
You have no proof that anyone ever died from this, yet you believe that it constitutes a genocide.
I might as well claim that Hitler has risen and owns a farm in Brazil. Do I have any proof of this? No. But just because I have no proof doesn't mean it's not true!!!1!!!

Waiting for him to ask why the Mexican Government didn’t document it. Waiting for it.

Why would I do that?

 

[Houseman]

This is how you are advised to handle clothing:

So the CDC, today, recommends that laypeople who somehow come into contact with the chemical, should dispose of their clothing?

Yeah no figure. This isn't relevant. We've learned a LOT about medicine and science since 1917, so we know a LOT more now about what things are harmful and what things aren't. Back then we were x-raying pregnant people while Marie Curie was accidentally killing herself by carrying radioactive isotopes in her pocket. We were drinking cocaine, teaching kids to smoke, and prescribing using gasoline to kill lice.

If you want to claim that the US maliciously and intentionally administered harmful chemicals to Mexicans for the sole purpose of killing them (you said it was genocide, remember), you'd need to prove that they KNEW how harmful these chemicals were to human beings, but used them anyway.

We know this isn't the case because Americans used Zyklon to fumigate their own homes: http://www.rodoh.us/rodoh2016/docs/americyan1938/pdf/discoid-114.pdf
They used it on their own mattresses, clothing, and offices in order to kill insects and pests, like bed bugs and mice.

JUST LIKE THEY WERE DOING HERE.

So what is this, an American genocide that Americans perpetrated on their own people? For fun?
I can probably find evidence of every single spOoOoOky chemical on your (Wikipedia's) list and demonstrate how they were used on Americans for similar delousing and disinfecting reasons. Want me to?

 

[Kae]

I hope you don't mean me. Lil and I were specifically ONLY talking about the early 1917 decontamination procedures and whether or not they were meant to commit genocide or not. She was unable to provide evidence of a single fatality.

Ah, yes the good old "I wasn't talking about that" defence, it's not as if your argument is minimising the threat of genocide, by claiming that poison is somehow not poisonous, and basically accusing the survivors of a tragedy of being liars.

Stuff it Housey, I've heard enough about this and I'm tired of this disingenuous crap, if you want to go ahead and defend genocide that's you're prerogative but don't pretend it's something it's not and don't expect me to buy into it either, just because I try to keep an amicable relationship doesn't mean I don't see through this crap, and it's disappointing really, you're black dude, you should understand the gravity of these things, who do you think it's going to become the number one threat once they're done with us and the muslims?

Anyway, continue lying to yourself if you want man, I'm done.

 

[Revnak]

We know.
You have no proof that anyone ever died from this, yet you believe that it constitutes a genocide.
I might as well claim that Hitler has risen and owns a farm in Brazil. Do I have any proof of this? No. But just because I have no proof doesn't mean it's not true!!!1!!!



Why would I do that?

Aren’t you curious why documentation might not occur? Isn’t the fact they didn’t document it the perfect justification for your “skepticism?”

 

[gorfias]

Excuse me, What a load of BS. We have DNR for a reason as well. INFORMED CONSENT is there for good reason and we are legally bound to respect that. Unless a patient is unconscious, or not legally able to consent we respect their wishes. There is no " gray" area here, we have consent pretty well defined.

Informed Consent | AMA-Code

Code of Ethics Opinions pages. Informed consent to medical treatment is fundamental in both ethics and law. Patients have the right to receive information and ask questions about recommended treatments so that they can make well-considered decisions about care.

www.ama-assn.org

There was no issue with her being able to consent. We have abundant translators available 24 hours via telephone and internet. There is NO EXCUSE for operating on her without informed consent,.

Not my understanding. Example https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i...edical-providers-might-ignore-them-2019-04-05

 

[Revnak]

So the CDC, today, recommends that laypeople who somehow come into contact with the chemical, should dispose of their clothing?

Yeah no figure. This isn't relevant. We've learned a LOT about medicine and science since 1917, so we know a LOT more now about what things are harmful and what things aren't. Back then we were x-raying pregnant people while Marie Curie was accidentally killing herself by carrying radioactive isotopes in her pocket. We were drinking cocaine, teaching kids to smoke, and prescribing using gasoline to kill lice.

If you want to claim that the US maliciously and intentionally administered harmful chemicals to Mexicans for the sole purpose of killing them (you said it was genocide, remember), you'd need to prove that they KNEW how harmful these chemicals were to human beings, but used them anyway.

We know this isn't the case because Americans used Zyklon to fumigate their own homes: http://www.rodoh.us/rodoh2016/docs/americyan1938/pdf/discoid-114.pdf
They used it on their own mattresses, clothing, and offices in order to kill insects and pests, like bed bugs and mice.

JUST LIKE THEY WERE DOING HERE.

So what is this, an American genocide that Americans perpetrated on their own people? For fun?
I can probably find evidence of every single spOoOoOky chemical on your (Wikipedia's) list and demonstrate how they were used on Americans for similar delousing and disinfecting reasons. Want me to?

I doubt most Americans dealt with them as a daily hazard.

 

[lil devils x]

Cyanide Poisoning Deaths Detected at the National Forensic Service Headquarters in Seoul of Korea: A Six Year Survey (2005~2010)

.
Yea .. people thought this was great too! That doesn't mean that it didn't kill people too;

Radium Girls: The dark times of luminous watches

In 1917, glow-in-the-dark watches were all the rage. But the girls who painted them with radioactive paint weren't told how dangerous it was.

www.cnn.com

Using ignorance of it poisoning people as a defense AFTER they already knew it was poisoning people... Seriously?
Tobacco companies knew they were killing people too, that didn't stop them either!

 

[lil devils x]

Not my understanding. Example https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i...edical-providers-might-ignore-them-2019-04-05

A personal finance columnist is where you get your medical information?
That would be funny if you hadn't taken it seriously as blanket medical advice. It is considered an ethics violation and yes, can be considered illegal as well depending on the circumstance. Informed consent is not " optional" as you suggest. Not obtaining informed consent is illegal.