WHITE GUY DEFENSE FORCE GO!

[The Wooster]

Some people are asking for WGDF wallpapers, but fuck them, I'm not their dancing monkey. Here's a very high res pic of the title shot so people can their own wallpapers.

Spoiler: El Spoilero

 

[Ukomba]

Not really. You can easy make a straw-man out of a single picture, let alone a comic. The whole _____ = Hitler picture is a straw-man. It's not making an argument, it's just saying this person, or people who hold these views are essentially Nazi's.

That's not a strawman either. That's just telling somebody that you think they are incalculably evil because they disagree with you. Which is stupid, but not a strawman.

The point of the comic is to equate people with certain points of view with these over reacting losers. It's an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. Straw men are never two sided conversations, that's THE POINT of a straw-man. They act as your opponents position and let you beat it up. You can make a strawman argument to someone you're arguing with, but that just tends to end with them saying, 'you're miss representing my point of view'.

But a strawman requires that you first construct the misconstrued argument then pick it apart, explaining how it's wrong. You conduct an argument against the position you want your opponent to have, instead of the position they have.

This isn't the same thing. There's no attempt to pick apart or deconstruct the arguments White Guy Defense Force. They are just presented with maximum ridiculosity. It's a parody, which is not the same thing as a strawman.

A straw man is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet nonequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.] This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged, emotional issues.

In this case, the opponents are those against people to trying to get developers to change the race/gender of the main character in a game just for diversity sake.

The comic writer makes their position that it's an attack on white men.

This allowed the comic to then attack them by portraying them as murderous, racist losers. This neatly avoids the positions people tend to take when discussing this and lets the artist beat up on the fictitious opponents of the highly charged issue and supposedly score points against the people who don't like developers being pressured to change the race/gender of the main character in a game just for diversity sake.

It's not a full on straw-man argument, but they do set up a straw-man here to be ridiculed.


The Hitler image is the same. It's equating person X's positions with that of a monster and there for those positions are the same as genocide. It's not a good straw-man, I admit. People who make that connection tend to be mocked for it, but that is what they are attempting to portray.

You don't actually have to pick the argument apart for it to be a straw-man. If you set it up well enough, accusing one side of holding that view is enough since the audience will pick it apart. Like saying "Polotician X's health care plan is just 'don't get sick'." That's a straw-man setup.

As I stated in my edit

I get that interpretation, but if that's the true point it's getting lost in everything else. If they said maybe:

"Artistic vision in video games is safe for another day."

As they fly off, then that would at least bring if full circle back to that point.

I think the moment it gets brought 'full circle' is when they kill the black man for reaching for his 'race card' - invoking a phrase that is often repeated in attempts to dismiss people who promote things like diversity.

If not for the Zimmerman reference immediately after that I would give this more credence. What is that image trying to say anyways? Again, Zimmerman is a highly charged, emotional topic with a lot of nuance to it. The comic turns it into Zimmerman just likes to shoot black people at the drop of a hat card.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Some people are asking for WGDF wallpapers, but fuck them, I'm not their dancing monkey. Here's a very high res pic of the title shot so people can their own wallpapers.

Spoiler: El Spoilero

I kinda want to make this into a poster for my wall.

 

[Fappy]

So why are you still here?

If there's one thing worse than what you accuse this place of being, is sticking around just to tell everyone how mean they are and how they need to take people's feelings into account.

I can only speak for myself but I share his opinion on the forums at the moment. Right now the thing that keeps me coming back is some of the user groups, which have good communities.

From time to time I go back to the forums and usually it doesn't take long for me to regret that. Right now I'm here because I'm fucking hungry and I'm trying to kill time until the gulasch is ready though.

To be honest, I haven't been venturing into the forums either, but that's because nobody can take a fucking joke any more.

User Groups are a god send.

I've noticed this to. When did this site lose its sense of humor, or the ability to detect satire or sarcasm? >.> Would a pegan sacrifice bring it back? I know where goats are, could get one going by early evening.

I remember those old golden days when I could make a joke about burning transsexual black babies and people would just give me weird looks while shuffling past me awkwardly instead of pulling me into a shitstorm of tolerance, correctness and Sarkessians. Where did they go? ;_;

Course some people probably fondly remember the days when I wasn't here to shit up the site. Just the natural cycle of an internet forum I guess, though this ones decline has been rather sharp.

I miss those days too. Like you and Daystar I've been kind of hiding from the general forums. We need to be in the same User Groups or something because I miss your sexy ass, Smash.

Tell me where you at brother, I'll join those user groups and hang out there from time to time provided the other users don't mind

Not quite on 15 pages for your return, but close. Hope it's not too much of a disappointment for you.

Nah, I wasn't afk for as long as I thought I would be anyway.

This thread will have probably hit the 15 page mark before I go to bed though.

The main one to find me in is the Brovengers. Just PM Daystar and I am sure he'll let you hang out in there.

 

[Hazy]

Some people are asking for WGDF wallpapers, but fuck them, I'm not their dancing monkey. Here's a very high res pic of the title shot so people can their own wallpapers.

Spoiler: El Spoilero

Thanks, Grey. Bummer that this turned out to be a 14-page retreading of the Zimmerman verdict.

 

[RafaelNegrus]

quote

I agree with you that in many games it would be perfectly fine to have multiple character creation options, but at the same time that has limits. The biggest one is that if the character is totally flexible then the story can't talk about the character at all. This makes character creations extremely viable in fantasy or sci-fi games where the story is far more about the world than the character. Mass Effect is a good example of this, as they wanted to talk about choice and fate and cycles, none of which really needs a highly specific protagonist. However, in games where the story is something much more personal then the protagonist needs to be fixed. Silent Hill 2 would not have worked well with character creation.

And the thing is that generic white guys as heroes is an issue, but we have different solutions that pull in multiple directions. If it is just about representing the player and letting them have an avatar that resembles them then character creation is the way to go. But if we really want a greater variety of stories and experiences then we need more set characters, just of different backgrounds. That to me is more valuable, because let's be honest, none of these avatars are really us.

Now I'm going back to GW2, where I play as a giant cat that heals people.

 

[Ukomba]

It's not a full on straw-man argument

That was the entirety of my point. A misrepresentation is not enough to call it a strawman. The fallacy requires that the false argument be deconstructed. This is parody through extreme hyperbole.

And I said the deconstruction of their 'white men are under attack' argument is to call them/show them as paranoid racists. The whole comic is set up as a deconstruction to that argument. You can then dismiss the argument and the people making it rather than facing their actual position. A ten thousand word dissertation is not needed.

If not for the Zimmerman reference immediately after that I would give this more credence. What is that image trying to say anyways? Again, Zimmerman is a highly charged, emotional topic with a lot of nuance to it. The comic turns it into Zimmerman just likes to shoot black people at the drop of a hat card.

Zimmerman became a talking point for certain elements of the population who wanted to reinforce a connection between young black males and violent, criminal tendencies. People cast Martin as the aggressor, and used that to imply that all black men were predominantly aggressors. That seems to be the sentiment being invoked - that because someone is black that he must by nature be an aggressor, which plays to the idea that asking for a black protagonist is somehow an act of aggression against white people.

I've never heard anyone try to make that point. I've just been hearing people say both of them acted stupid and Zimmerman shot out of fear when things started going badly against him, supported by injuries and a witness. Verses him shooting someone in cold blood.

Frankly I don't care about Zimmerman, and only brought it up as another one of those hot button topics and is getting casually thrown around in this to drive comments.

 

[Shingro]

Fact of the matter is that still today the experience of being a black person in society (and therefor many games) and being a white person in america (and therefor many games) is VASTLY DIFFERENT. Pretending you can just trade across the line like it's a frikken light switch seems pretty offensive when you consider how many problems with race we STILL have (Zimmerman is ironically a good example. Implies NO self perspective.) Doubly so to scribble out a quick black mouthpiece to imply that's so. Then on top of that associating the people who might have a problem the idea to Zimmerman and therefor racists, and have them kill that mouthpiece. I don't know the author personally, but even if it was done without even considering the egregious racial insensitivity demonstrated in that first argument it's an ugly, awful way to argue a point, done in a way to offend and get people yelling rather then talking. Bad marks all around.

It's always the author's prerogative to say what they like, to do what they like, to insult who they like. I've said it before and I'll say it again even when I think the artistic work is god awful...

... but it's also my prerogative to say "Wow, not cool man. You're encouraging this important conversation to be as ugly as you can make it, and that's a horrible thing to do."

No matter where you stand this comic was a Poor Idea and bespeaks of some seriously rough tendencies to just enjoying poking beehives.

Additionally misrepresenting a nuanced concern (artistic licence vs criticism) as blatant racism is a pretty gross thing to do.

There, that's my piece, I disagree with the author strongly, I did it in as respectful language as I can manage. It probably won't matter, this thread has probably run it's course. It's fairly obvious to everyone what Grey tried to do even if it was executed in an incredibly thoughtless manner that tars himself with the exact brush he was waving at 'the internet' in general.

I dunno, this whole situation is messed up. Maybe I'm off my rocker, but I'm still going to peace out of the readership for a long time. Feels bad man.

 

[anthony87]

I remember those old golden days when I could make a joke about burning transsexual black babies and people would just give me weird looks while shuffling past me awkwardly instead of pulling me into a shitstorm of tolerance, correctness and Sarkessians. Where did they go? ;_;

I know them feels man. Between the passive agressiveness, the cavalry charges of high horses and the over all seriousness of the place it's just nowhere near as fun as it used to be. Remember fun? When threads could be about nonsense and everbody would join in and have a chuckle. Now it's just people shouting at each other.

I miss Zeel...he really brought all of us together in a way that I haven't seen since.

 

[Victim of Progress]

I have arrived, and it is now that I post my reply. In fealty to the Mod-Emperor (our Undying Lord), and by the grace of the Escapist Website, I declare exterminatus upon this thread. I hereby sign the Death Warrant of an entire topic, and consign a million posters to oblivion. May Forum Code of Conduct account in all balance. The Mods protect.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is human nature to see culpability in a time of tragedy. It is a sign of strength to cry out against fate, rather than bow one's head and succumb. Inevitably many shall fault the hands upon the banhammer which felled this thread, the mods. But he moderators merely perform their duties. To further fear them is redundant: to hate them, heretical. Those more sensible will place responsibility with those who forced the hands of the mods...With some fortune, they may foster this hatred into purpose, and further rule their own fate by following the code of conduct. Yet ultimately it was I who set these events into motion, with a single blow from my hammer, the Thread Destroyer

THE MODS PROTECT

 

[Shingro]

40k Stuff

Gutsy, I can't figure out if you're making direct fun of the mods or not. You walk dangerous ground sir.

 

[Revolutionary]

This might be funny if I didn't get this exact same joke every day on tumblr.

 

[Arcanite Ripper]

Applause. All of my applause. My new favourite Critical Miss. Move over, Old-Spice Garrus.

And looks like the wars have now started. Good to see some exposed colours now and again.

I have nothing more to say because i'm still laughing. Brilliantly executed. Well done.