Why are The Witcher 2 fans so defensive?

[predatorpulse7]

I myself being a retro gamer feel only one ananagly that is fitting.

Have you ever played that hard game that at least decided to give you a decent or good tutorial on core mechanics and let you figure out the rest, super meat boy, great example, starts off slow, then adds danger, more danger, HOLY SHIT BALLS ON FIRE IN SATANS BASKET HOLDER THAT IS SOME DANGER, but the witcher 2 says "FUCK YOU, YOU WANT A TUTORIAL, READ THE MANUAL YOU MAJOR PUSSY CAT!" And storms off without a goodbye, and let me try to say this, if I have to search up how to use something, when I shouldn't HAVE to, its pretty ridiculous. What it lacks, it lacks pacing, starts you off at the end difficulty and doesn't build up on it, story is paced well but gameplay is in the backseat of the car tied up not allowing to do much else but one thing, and story is everything else. Look at any good game from the past, my favorite comparisons are Mario for pacing, and river city ransom for difficulty, neither tell you anything, but you know what to do because its simple and makes sense...... And how is it a "Adult themed world." Because you can get boob and ass shots? I haven't played it, but from everything I hear, its only for pc gamers, which in that case I think you should give it a try, but anyone that isn't a pure breed pc gamer, stay far away, I myself are a mixed breed of console and computer.
Zero Punctuation is a review show, but Yahtzee is a critic, look up critic if you don't know it.

Since you didn't play the game, let me explain:

It's a more adult like world because it doesn't treat the player like a child, it handles major themes such as betrayal,racism,sex with maturity and more importantly, you actions have consequences(and most times they aren't immediate consequences) that almost always fall in the gray area(as in real life) whereas most RPG's get into the whole black and white thing(where you can be either an angel or satan), even the RPG's that show boobies.

 

[Aprilgold]

I myself being a retro gamer feel only one ananagly that is fitting.

Have you ever played that hard game that at least decided to give you a decent or good tutorial on core mechanics and let you figure out the rest, super meat boy, great example, starts off slow, then adds danger, more danger, HOLY SHIT BALLS ON FIRE IN SATANS BASKET HOLDER THAT IS SOME DANGER, but the witcher 2 says "FUCK YOU, YOU WANT A TUTORIAL, READ THE MANUAL YOU MAJOR PUSSY CAT!" And storms off without a goodbye, and let me try to say this, if I have to search up how to use something, when I shouldn't HAVE to, its pretty ridiculous. What it lacks, it lacks pacing, starts you off at the end difficulty and doesn't build up on it, story is paced well but gameplay is in the backseat of the car tied up not allowing to do much else but one thing, and story is everything else. Look at any good game from the past, my favorite comparisons are Mario for pacing, and river city ransom for difficulty, neither tell you anything, but you know what to do because its simple and makes sense...... And how is it a "Adult themed world." Because you can get boob and ass shots? I haven't played it, but from everything I hear, its only for pc gamers, which in that case I think you should give it a try, but anyone that isn't a pure breed pc gamer, stay far away, I myself are a mixed breed of console and computer.
Zero Punctuation is a review show, but Yahtzee is a critic, look up critic if you don't know it.

Since you didn't play the game, let me explain:

It's a more adult like world because it doesn't treat the player like a child, it handles major themes such as betrayal,racism,sex with maturity and more importantly, you actions have consequences(and most times they aren't immediate consequences) that almost always fall in the gray area(as in real life) whereas most RPG's get into the whole black and white thing(where you can be either an angel or satan), even the RPG's that show boobies.

Thanks for the clarifing, It did make me intrigued, I'll probably check the game out.

 

[Deviluk]

I really liked it, actually. Even though it forced me to switch to easy in Act 1, there are a few games like that that I've played and I'm determined to get better and play again through a harder difficulty, because being skilful is really fun. UNLIKE in say CoD where the hardest difficulty makes it impossible to move without getting sniped from an AK47 a mile away.

Yahtzees review was wrong that it was so long, and seriously the 'click right mouse button' prompt didn't appear? After 15 times of watching a cutscene?? It was funny though about the two swords, I agree with that, but now he's just poking fun at the RPG mechanic in general. I take it as comedy, rather than actual advice on which game to buy.

 

[ploppytheman]

I cant say this game was good or bad, but I can say for me I uninstalled it halfway through. If you play it get the weightless mod though or suffer shitty inventory management.

Graphics, beautiful.
Story, interesting (although a bit too political and drawn out ).
Combat, initially so hard and fun, but also slow and unresponsive and buggy.

Inventory, nightmare.
Guidance, nightmare.
Menu/Interface, horrible.

Setting up graphics and controls was a pain in the ass too since u cant do it ingame...

This game was so fun at first till ch.2 but then it got bogged down into boredom. The combat became broken with shielding and the endless dialogue made me stop caring. I ended up reading dialogue because listening to it would take FOREVER and this further diminished the quality and immersion. I don't need a 10page speech for each quest. Fetch this do that collect this kill those. Put up Quen and press heavy attack a bunch. Upgrading weapons and armor doesn't matter as you get stuff for free anyway thats close enough and the combat is already easy. Make arbitrary decisions about characters you don't care about. Story doesn't really advance. Keep doing boring fetch quests and not progress your own story. If you support humans first you are racist herp derp.

It felt like I was gonna learn something about Geralt and then they just kept taking it away again and again till I didn't even care anymore. It felt like Halo 2 how you never got the info you wanted. I do realize the game might end with info but it wasn't delivered to keep me interested. You really don't learn ANYTHING except witchers are killing kings, which was revealed at the end of witcher 1 anyway.

 

[Lewieroo0]

*

 

[Exocet]

Graphics, beautiful.
Story, interesting (although a bit too political and drawn out ).
Combat, initially so hard and fun, but also slow and unresponsive and buggy.

Inventory, nightmare.
Guidance, nightmare.
Menu/Interface, horrible.

Setting up graphics and controls was a pain in the ass too since u cant do it ingame...

This game was so fun at first till ch.2 but then it got bogged down into boredom. The combat became broken with shielding and the endless dialogue made me stop caring. I ended up reading dialogue because listening to it would take FOREVER and this further diminished the quality and immersion. I don't need a 10page speech for each quest. Fetch this do that collect this kill those. Put up Quen and press heavy attack a bunch. Upgrading weapons and armor doesn't matter as you get stuff for free anyway thats close enough and the combat is already easy. Make arbitrary decisions about characters you don't care about. Story doesn't really advance. Keep doing boring fetch quests and not progress your own story. If you support humans first you are racist herp derp.

It felt like I was gonna learn something about Geralt and then they just kept taking it away again and again till I didn't even care anymore. It felt like Halo 2 how you never got the info you wanted. I do realize the game might end with info but it wasn't delivered to keep me interested. You really don't learn ANYTHING except witchers are killing kings, which was revealed at the end of witcher 1 anyway.

I will concede the bullet points,but I will point out that you are complaining about dialogue..in an RPG.AN RPG! Yes,instead of the game telling you to blow up some nests with a particular type of bomb and boom,you're off,it tells you there are monsters that have been mucking about,people have gone missing,we think it's x type of monster,can you check it out.

As for the upgrading weapons seem pointless,I would like to direct you to my runed silver sword that increased sign damage and set monsters of fire.Nuff said.

If you don't care about the characters,why even bother play an rpg? I highly doubt choosing sides is something you should not care about,nor is it arbitrary.

Finally,you learn nothing in game? I think you missed as entire subplot about Geralt's past,which is odd because it's one the of the driving points of the game,and has an entire main quest dedicated to it in chapter2.

PS:I love it when you say that the story is interesting in a bullet point,then say it's boring during your rant.

 

[Zeriu]

Maybe I'm just an overly critical twat who can't have any fun, but I've never played a game that I couldn't come up with at least one criticism towards. This is what leads me to not really care when Yahtzee tears apart a game I've loved, because it's not like I'm sitting there playing it and thinking it's perfect. Frankly, I haven't played The Witcher 2, so I don't know much about it. My brother's been playing it while I was in the same room, and it really does sound like you have to learn a lot of shit for yourself. This didn't stop him from enjoying it, and I think if you're like that then congratulations on finding a game you love, we all hope to find that one day. That doesn't mean you get to claim it's perfect; it isn't. The fact that Yahtzee has ALWAYS exaggerated the negative elements of a specific game is just his thing. If you honestly don't like the way he critiques, then why the bloody hell are you watching him?

This reminds me of Isaac Hayes leaving South Park when they insulted Scientology. Sure, I bet all you Witcher 2 fans laughed at his attacks on those puny mortal console games, even though I can guarantee he's been misleading before, but now that he's attacked YOUR game? YOUR GAME?!?!?! Yahthzee, you blundering buffoon, you can't possibly do THE EXACT SAME THING YOU'VE BEEN DOING FOR YEARS to my precious game!

Why does everybody see TW2 as a PC game? Just cause GTA4 was released on xbox first doesn't mean it is a console game. It's a damn good game. that's it. Everybody sees this as an "Us vs. them" , "PC vs. console" thing. I like Yahtzee and some things he complains about i agree with. Hell, except on the part with the cutscene, I agree with him. The game is not very user-friendly, but the worst thing he did in his career is he created this whole "PC gaming master race" concept that I am sad to admit actually has some weight in gaming forums. Why for the love of god does everybody see this and ignore the actual game content?

 

[Snowalker]

Well, you see, this is a AAA PC *only* game, so PC gamers have to defend it, because AAA games just aren't coming around as often as they used to.

Except it's not, because it's coming to 360 (and maybe PS3) as well. So if that's why people are falling over themselves to defend it so vehemently, they can stop now.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110856-E3-Witcher-2-Xbox-360

Yeah, I know, but I still think that's why its got such a head-strong fanbase, I mean, honestly, don't PC gamers strike you as pretentious? I mean, I'm one of them and even I admit they'll argue over this kinda stuff till the end of time. Besides, I won't believe its coming to consoles until the day of release, cause they pulled the same shit with the last Witcher.

Halo fans? Metal Gear fans? Call of Duty fans? Dragon Age fans?

Fans are fans regardless of platform, stop trying to associate that attitude to PC gamers.

Because being pretentious is ok is everyone else is doing it? I wasn't saying PC gamers are the only ones doing it, I'm saying the arrogant attitude they have is likely the cause of this particular problem.

 

[icaritos]

Well, you see, this is a AAA PC *only* game, so PC gamers have to defend it, because AAA games just aren't coming around as often as they used to.

Except it's not, because it's coming to 360 (and maybe PS3) as well. So if that's why people are falling over themselves to defend it so vehemently, they can stop now.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110856-E3-Witcher-2-Xbox-360

Yeah, I know, but I still think that's why its got such a head-strong fanbase, I mean, honestly, don't PC gamers strike you as pretentious? I mean, I'm one of them and even I admit they'll argue over this kinda stuff till the end of time. Besides, I won't believe its coming to consoles until the day of release, cause they pulled the same shit with the last Witcher.

Halo fans? Metal Gear fans? Call of Duty fans? Dragon Age fans?

Fans are fans regardless of platform, stop trying to associate that attitude to PC gamers.

Because being pretentious is ok is everyone else is doing it? I wasn't saying PC gamers are the only ones doing it, I'm saying the arrogant attitude they have is likely the cause of this particular problem.

"I wasn't saying PC gamers are the only ones doing it"

"I mean, honestly, don't PC gamers strike you as pretentious?"

No, but you were stating that this a attitude particularly common among all PC gamers. Nice backtracking tho.

 

[reddragon105]

I haven't played it myself (still have to play the first one), but just to jump in quickly -

A) I hate in-game tutorials. The only time they are acceptable are when they can be turned off. If a developer ever thinks of utilising an in-game tutorial their next thought should be to make the game ask you, right at the start, if you've played before, so that if you have, or you've played a previous game, or you're a seasoned enough gamer to figure it out for yourself, or if you're willing to check the manual if you can't figure it out, you can just proceed without any patronising information about how look up and down, move forwards, run or pick up or use stuff. Likewise, it annoys me when a game continuously reminds you of how to do things - like having 'X = Use' hover over anything that's usable when you approach it.

Case in point - I picked up Red Faction Armageddon this morning and am, according to the menu, 25% of the way through already. It only recently taught me how to sprint - something that I figured out in the first 5 minutes by holding down the left thumbstick, which I assumed would be sprint based on playing past games that used that control, such as Call of Duty.

What I'm basically saying is that the controls should be kept separately. By all means have a tutorial, but don't make it an integral part of the game. Constantly reminding players of the controls breaks the fourth wall and reminds people they are playing a game. A game like GTA - which doesn't keep reminding you what button to press to get into a vehicle, is far more immersive.

I also like it when there's some reading to do regarding the plot. I do agree that it should be contained in the game - you shouldn't have to read a tie-in novel or anything like that to appreciate it, but I don't mind picking up information by reading journals and whatnot in the game itself. Again, that makes it more immersive than having cutscenes that force exposition down your throat.


B) I totally agree with that, though. If people have gripes about the game, they can't be told they're 'wrong' about them. But there are obviously different kinds of people who prefer different uses of the video game medium.

 

[Aedrial]

Most fans are defensive. It's usually what divides a person from being a 'fan' and someone who just likes the game.

 

[Kahunaburger]

And how is it a "Adult themed world." Because you can get boob and ass shots?

I'd say it's mature *despite* the boob and ass shots, not because of them. Basically, the characters and interactions thereof, story, strategy aspect of gameplay, and writing are all held up to a higher standard than the vast majority of games I've played. Basically think the HBO version of Game of Thrones - mature, complex, well-told story with gratuitous nudity kind of dragging it down.

 

[Darknacht]

Question A:

I haven't played the game myself and I likely won't, but from what I understand, frustrations with the game are born out of the lack of a tutorial, i.e. "I kept dying because I didn't know how to effectively use the controls."

In response, TW2 fans say, "Why don't you read the journal? Why don't you look it up? Do you need your hand held all the time?"

How is this different from people playing The Witcher 2 and getting frustrated because they feel they shouldn't have to "look stuff up" to have a basic enjoyment for the game?

Are we really so lazy that we cant play a game that doesn't hold our hand through a tutorial every time we want to play?
I remember when games did not have tutorials, they were great games and you were expected to read the manual or figure it out your self. And if you died because you were too lazy to read the manual that was your fault.

Derogatory comment about the mindless of most modern games and consoletards.

 

[Savber]

Great game design will integrate tutorials in-game without a need to lug an actual manual around just to find out how to mix potions. ***** on how we're "lazy" etc but the point of a game is to quickly teach you the basics and at the very least, TELL you how to utilize your various skills before dumping you into a fight without any tips or helps. This is poor game design on the pretense of being "tough" and "mature".

We're not asking that CDPR hold our hands in every single second but instead teach us the basics within the game and THEN leave us to our fate.

Look at Assassin Creed 2 as whenever you receive a new item, the game will integrate a tutorial within the gameplay without breaking immersion. THAT is good game design.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Great game design will integrate tutorials in-game without a need to lug an actual manual around just to find out how to mix potions. ***** on how we're "lazy" etc but the point of a game is to quickly teach you the basics and at the very least, TELL you how to utilize your various skills before dumping you into a fight without any tips or helps. This is poor game design on the pretense of being "tough" and "mature".

We're not asking that CDPR hold our hands in every single second but instead teach us the basics within the game and THEN leave us to our fate.

Look at Assassin Creed 2 as whenever you receive a new item, the game will integrate a tutorial within the gameplay without breaking immersion. THAT is good game design.

You would not like Super Metroid then haha. Or Minecraft

CDProjekt did fix the prologue difficulty in their latest patch, although IMO a lot of that difficulty stems from people not knowing how flexible their options are. They really should patch in a tutorial as a separate option from the main game, because the way the main game dumps you in the action is awesome but the way it doesn't give a hand to people who don't know the game's toolkit is not.

 

[Frotality]

the tutorial sucked, but im one of few people that remember the old saying "read the fucking manual". saying the tutorial sucked and turned you off from the game is a valid complaint; it really didnt need to be so hard, and its understandable if you didnt care to proceed. i pushed through and i dont regret it, but if you didnt, it doesnt mean your stupid or not a real gamer, it just means you thought a game starting off with such bullshit difficulty isnt worth it.

the ZP review was the same as any other ZP review; taking the problems of the game and cranking them up to eleven in yahtzee's own particular brand of humour. he didnt like the original, so i dont know why anyone would be surprised by his review; he would bash it even if he did like it ffs, its what he does.

but of course, the witcher 2 is the only AAA RPG that tries to appeal to adults and not to housewives and children in recent memory, AND its made for the PC, so that alone is probably worth defending with blind absolution

ive only played a bit at a friends house cause my PC sucks, but once i FINALLY upgrade, the witcher 2 is a definite buy for me. i love it; its not perfect, and has some pretty serious problems, but for its me worth it. in the same way that 2001: a space odyssey is really fucking slow but still an amazing movie; the witcher 2 is a stinking bullshit cheater sometimes but still an amazing game.

 

[Snowalker]

Well, you see, this is a AAA PC *only* game, so PC gamers have to defend it, because AAA games just aren't coming around as often as they used to.

Except it's not, because it's coming to 360 (and maybe PS3) as well. So if that's why people are falling over themselves to defend it so vehemently, they can stop now.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110856-E3-Witcher-2-Xbox-360

Yeah, I know, but I still think that's why its got such a head-strong fanbase, I mean, honestly, don't PC gamers strike you as pretentious? I mean, I'm one of them and even I admit they'll argue over this kinda stuff till the end of time. Besides, I won't believe its coming to consoles until the day of release, cause they pulled the same shit with the last Witcher.

Halo fans? Metal Gear fans? Call of Duty fans? Dragon Age fans?

Fans are fans regardless of platform, stop trying to associate that attitude to PC gamers.

Because being pretentious is ok is everyone else is doing it? I wasn't saying PC gamers are the only ones doing it, I'm saying the arrogant attitude they have is likely the cause of this particular problem.

"I wasn't saying PC gamers are the only ones doing it"

"I mean, honestly, don't PC gamers strike you as pretentious?"

No, but you were stating that this a attitude particularly common among all PC gamers. Nice backtracking tho.

I wasn't backtracking, I'm being honest, All fans defend their shit, but PC gamers have the pretentious attitude as if "Well, you're a simpleton, you wouldn't understand the finer tastes of good game making." While other fans are just "Why don't you like it? Its obviously the best thing ever, are you stupid?"

 

[remnant_phoenix]

Question A:

I haven't played the game myself and I likely won't, but from what I understand, frustrations with the game are born out of the lack of a tutorial, i.e. "I kept dying because I didn't know how to effectively use the controls."

In response, TW2 fans say, "Why don't you read the journal? Why don't you look it up? Do you need your hand held all the time?"

How is this different from people playing The Witcher 2 and getting frustrated because they feel they shouldn't have to "look stuff up" to have a basic enjoyment for the game?

Are we really so lazy that we cant play a game that doesn't hold our hand through a tutorial every time we want to play?
I remember when games did not have tutorials, they were great games and you were expected to read the manual or figure it out your self. And if you died because you were too lazy to read the manual that was your fault.

Derogatory comment about the mindless of most modern games and consoletards.

The last game I remember playing where I NEEDED to look something up in the game manual to know how to play was Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (published 1997), a game that is infamous for giving you abilities and then giving you no clue how to use them. Gaining a new ability was along the lines of...

Game: "You gained the Echo of Bat relic"
Me: Okay, what does that do? Let me look at it in my relic inventory...
Game: "Allows bat sonar to see in dark places"
Me: Oh! Cool! Now I'll go back to that place where I had to turn around because of the darkness. (gets back to that place, turns into a bat) Why isn't my sonar working? I still can't see...

===

Every Castlevania since has had a little one-sentence pop-up instruction along the lines of...

Game: "You gained the Echo of Bat relic. Press O while in bat form to use sonar."

...because most would agree that the SotN way of doing it was just poorer game design.

===

If you LIKE games that don't have in-game tutorials, fine. If you believe that in-game tutorials of ANY KIND are tantamount to "hand-holding" and "dumbing down," fine, that's your opinion. I will agree that many modern games overdo it; that the in-game tutorials can become annoying, overbearing, and unnecessary, and the inability to turn them off if you wish is inexcusable.

But as someone who has been gaming on all platforms (including PC) since the days of needing to study the manual before diving into the game, I say that moving to a place where we never need to look in the manual to play a game is progressive game design. I say that in this day and age, requiring the player to remove their self from the game experience to "look up basic controls" is a poor game design decision.

And you know what? The majority of the gaming world agrees with me. Doesn't make us "right" per se, but it does mean that at least basic in-game instruction is the socialized standard of modern gaming. You can hate it and rail against it if you want, but that's the way it is, and I personally wouldn't want it any other way.

 

[Zeriu]

Well, you see, this is a AAA PC *only* game, so PC gamers have to defend it, because AAA games just aren't coming around as often as they used to.

Except it's not, because it's coming to 360 (and maybe PS3) as well. So if that's why people are falling over themselves to defend it so vehemently, they can stop now.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110856-E3-Witcher-2-Xbox-360

Yeah, I know, but I still think that's why its got such a head-strong fanbase, I mean, honestly, don't PC gamers strike you as pretentious? I mean, I'm one of them and even I admit they'll argue over this kinda stuff till the end of time. Besides, I won't believe its coming to consoles until the day of release, cause they pulled the same shit with the last Witcher.

Halo fans? Metal Gear fans? Call of Duty fans? Dragon Age fans?

Fans are fans regardless of platform, stop trying to associate that attitude to PC gamers.

Because being pretentious is ok is everyone else is doing it? I wasn't saying PC gamers are the only ones doing it, I'm saying the arrogant attitude they have is likely the cause of this particular problem.

"I wasn't saying PC gamers are the only ones doing it"

"I mean, honestly, don't PC gamers strike you as pretentious?"

No, but you were stating that this a attitude particularly common among all PC gamers. Nice backtracking tho.

I wasn't backtracking, I'm being honest, All fans defend their shit, but PC gamers have the pretentious attitude as if "Well, you're a simpleton, you wouldn't understand the finer tastes of good game making." While other fans are just "Why don't you like it? Its obviously the best thing ever, are you stupid?"

I see no difference because there is no difference. You just paint PC gamers as arrogant while simultaneously judging them. Trying to be modest always fails because you're saying "fuck that arrogant twat! Can't he be more modest like me?"

 

[Snowalker]

Well, you see, this is a AAA PC *only* game, so PC gamers have to defend it, because AAA games just aren't coming around as often as they used to.

Except it's not, because it's coming to 360 (and maybe PS3) as well. So if that's why people are falling over themselves to defend it so vehemently, they can stop now.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110856-E3-Witcher-2-Xbox-360

Yeah, I know, but I still think that's why its got such a head-strong fanbase, I mean, honestly, don't PC gamers strike you as pretentious? I mean, I'm one of them and even I admit they'll argue over this kinda stuff till the end of time. Besides, I won't believe its coming to consoles until the day of release, cause they pulled the same shit with the last Witcher.

Halo fans? Metal Gear fans? Call of Duty fans? Dragon Age fans?

Fans are fans regardless of platform, stop trying to associate that attitude to PC gamers.

Because being pretentious is ok is everyone else is doing it? I wasn't saying PC gamers are the only ones doing it, I'm saying the arrogant attitude they have is likely the cause of this particular problem.

"I wasn't saying PC gamers are the only ones doing it"

"I mean, honestly, don't PC gamers strike you as pretentious?"

No, but you were stating that this a attitude particularly common among all PC gamers. Nice backtracking tho.

I wasn't backtracking, I'm being honest, All fans defend their shit, but PC gamers have the pretentious attitude as if "Well, you're a simpleton, you wouldn't understand the finer tastes of good game making." While other fans are just "Why don't you like it? Its obviously the best thing ever, are you stupid?"

I see no difference because there is no difference. You just paint PC gamers as arrogant while simultaneously judging them. Trying to be modest always fails because you're saying "fuck that arrogant twat! Can't he be more modest like me?"

Who said I was trying to be modest? I said I'm being honest, and the only way to be honest is to believe what you say is true, and to be true you have to know the truth. And since no man can truly know the truth, one has to be arrogant to say their being entirely honest. And as I said, I'm a PC gamer, and I'm arrogant as hell.